Here is the rule in full:

Callouts of specific DUers by name is prohibited. This includes implying the name by linking to a post or using a coded word to refer to them. The exception to this rule is if that DUer is specifically talking about atheists or agnostics, atheism, or agnosticism, especially if that talk is bigoted to or promotes hatred of A&Aers.

Would you agree that the exception applies in this case?

And there is a reason that certain people are barred from posting here, and it is always due entirely to their own behavior and inability to abide by the rules of a safe haven, and usually as a result of multiple offenses. Those who have forfeited that right deserve no sympathy for an inability to respond.

until all of the hosts can discuss this.

I will publicly say that I am torn on this because it is a callout by name but isn't especially nasty. As we normally do, the hosts will have a discussion through email and the final decision will be reported to you.

After a discussion, all 3 hosts agree that this thread should be unlocked. We all agreed that this was light-hearted and wasn't a personal attack. If this does slide down the slope and become a mud-slinging personal attack thread, it will be shut back down again.

Hope everyone is a great weekend.

We were all pretty confidant it was.

And if rug hadn't done what he did, he'd be able to respond. I don't feel sorry for him.

Yes he can.... just not here.

Besides, what is there to respond to? He'd just make another joke anyway.

on circular arguments with someone you don't like, giving it up for Lent is a great idea.

Why it might even be so restful and pleasant that it turns into a permanent ignore!

Deprived of people to argue with, argumentative people either rejoin the human race or fade away. In this case, "giving up rug" was shorthand for "giving up futile discussions with rug."

And do remember this is our group and things don't always mean what you think they do here.

being the bastion of conversation that it is, rather than here. You're not an Atheist, you're not an agnostic, so I'm not sure 1) why you're scoping our forum and what we're talking about and 2) why it's any of your business what we're talking about.

And 3) If you can't see how some posters are highly divisive and purposefully antagonistic towards Atheists and Agnostics, and if you can't see how it can be very frustrating when your religionist friends make a mockery of us and our non-belief, who belittle our battles and are general turds in the punchbowl, well, I can't help ya there, Justin.

As others have posted, Rug and the others who are blocked from this group are solely responsible for their being blocked from this group. Here's the Cliffs Notes version: they don't play well with others, especially in protected spaces.

Note that none of US have gone and taken a big dump in your Interfaith group. We don't troll and quote-mine your protected groups. Your safe haven is TRULY a safe haven. Ours isn't and it hasn't been since the idea of safe havens were introduced.

The fact that you're incapable of seeing bad behaviour on the part of you and your friends speaks volumes.

It would be nice if you left this group and stopped worrying yourself with what we're interested in, talking about, arguing about, or discussing. We're grown ups, with hosts that are trusted and elected. If this thread is against the rules, then it will be shut down. If not, it will stay open.

You're behaving like a Nanny, frankly, and it's not appreciated. Go wag your finger to your ill-behaving friends in the Religion group

That your finger wagging in our safe space would in any way be accepted or that you'd be congratulated for being some 'arbiter of peace' or some shit. Read what you wrote and how it was phrased. Are you telling me with a straight face that if Trotsky or Skeptiscott went into one of the religious safe havens and wrote the exact same thing that it would have been accepted as some olive leaf from a poster so concerned about the rules?

Give me a fucking break. The reaction from your friends would have been much nastier than our response to you has been.

You didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday and neither did I. I don't buy your cloyingly sweet 'aw shucks gee whiz guys' innocence for one second. You knew that you were pushing the line by posting here to begin with, given the nasty things you've said, insinuated, and implied about atheists and agnostics in the past. You knew what you wrote was going to create a flurry of activity. Cut the Gomer Pyle cutesy bullshit. You know what you were doing and you knew the reaction it would cause.

Now run back and report to your team members. They'll give you a gold star for raising our ire

There is a very good reason he is banned from this group, a long history you were neither part of nor witness to.

So now we have to wonder why you're feigning ignorance, especially since you linked to the rule yourself and obviously read it in its entirety.

"I gave up rug for lent".

There is zero content about rug in that sentence other than the fact that the author, me has "given rug up". In fact, the obvious inference, given that one is supposed to give things up for lent that one takes pleasure in, is that I find rug delightful. Or perhaps sinful. At any rate, perhaps you just jumped off a cliff of unsubstantiated conclusions?

But this is the Atheist and Agnostic safe haven on a site that has proven to be very hostile to both groups. You have made it clear that you are neither A nor A, so Please respect our wishes.

Also consider self deleting your posts here as the presence of so many religious symbols could be triggering to some of our members.

Like waving a red flag in front of a bull.


*Snort*

but rage is a valid psychological trigger response.

And I love your new nose ring...

and disagree with you on occasion and to respect you in other venues, I'm afraid I will have to agree with scepticscott, Goblinmonger, AlbertCat, Warpy, Heddi, and our opinion probably includes a lot of other members of this group who have not commented.

This is a group I am proud to be a member of because as far as discipline, respect and honesty is concerned, A & A is one of the best self managed groups on this site. I'm glad to defend that honor within the rules of this group and the site. No insults have been committed in this OP nor have there been any comments outside of it's rule. On the contrary, I see people defending their right to an even-handed and honest rebuttal of personal attacks which effect all of us and the integrity of DU in general.

My hardwood floor is still pretty damn cold in bare feet.

We know who they are.

Sorry you two don't seem to enjoy each other.

But I haven't been here that long and either way I still find this hilarious

Makes my skin crawl

My Post #5 above actually, unbelievably, got alerted on:


On Sun Mar 9, 2014, 02:44 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

That's not completely accurate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=20122

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This poster is accusing the subject of the OP of the following:

"The exception to this rule is if that DUer is specifically talking about atheists or agnostics, atheism, or agnosticism, especially if that talk is bigoted to or promotes hatred of A&Aers"

What may have been a joke has been turned into an accusation of "bigotry" and "hatred".

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 9, 2014, 02:54 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: hrmjustin in AnA alerting on posts. LoL
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: meh
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've had to accept the fact that I will never really be the person my dog thinks I am.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Grow up.

I guess having 5 jurors out of 6 see this for what it is is about the best we can hope for these days.

If it was our friend hrmjustin who alerted on this, he should be banned from the group as of now. I'm not sure he shouldn't be in any case, after his hit-and-run tactics yesterday. I'm with Heddi..I don't buy his nice guy act, and I don't see why he's someone we should welcome here. He's hostile towards A&Aers, and frankly contributes nothing. If it was someone else, all the more reason to push for a change in site rules so that people who are banned from groups can't still come in and shit-stir by alerting.

Not the most ethical thing to do.

It was suggested in post 22 that he do so, so it may not just have been an attempt by him to scrub things so that no one could see what he'd done.

I dislike self delete in general.

My eyesight sucks and I often misread things. Self delete has stopped me from making a complete arse of myself, especially when I post in the wee hours when I'm starting to get a little sleepy.

A good rug shampoo gets rid of nasty debris

Life is too short to put up with crud

...because, well, it's "steaming mad at dirt."

Steaming piles often hide in a rug and must be flushed for the sake of humanity

So I am probably very biased on this. But I do believe a second suspect has come to light:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=121502

Though said suspect is already banned from this group.

Several years ago, this group had a well-respected poster who changed his mind about atheism and became a believer.

That person continued to hang around here and post long after his conversion. He liked our company and the feeling was mutual.

There's a big difference between him and what you may have seen in here recently - a mutual respect between all of us, and he was completely honest.

Fast-forward to the launch of DU3 a couple of years ago, with the new rules. This group suddenly had an influx of posters claiming they wanted a "dialogue" with us.

But most of those people did not want a dialogue, they wanted a monologue. The sort of monologue you'll recognize immediately if you hang around the "R" group very much. The needling, the "gotcha" posts about atheism, the derailing of discussion with constant stale, snarky one-liners, etc. etc.

Most of those people were promptly banned, in self-defense. Otherwise this group would have quickly turned into Religion II - Believers Happily Bashing Non-Believers.

At least that's the way I remember it. Corrections from other long-timers are welcome.

So much for turning the other cheek

"Thank you for joining our friendly discussion about religion! ALL are welcome here to talk endlessly about the wonderfulness of our chosen beliefs. Please join in, whether you be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Wiccan, Pagan or Non-Specific Religious Wonderfulness...

"Excuse me, but I'd like to respectfully point out that some of us have no religious beliefs. May we join the discu..."

"FUCKING ASSHOLE ATHEIST! YOU'RE OPPRESSING ME! W-A-A-H! GET OUT OF THIS GROUP RIGHT NOW!!!"

unless you want a shitstorm of fury to descend upon your head.

Apparently, they have access to Secret Magical Information that we're not supposed to ask about, ever.

But you did get some very long threads out of it as they tell you why they won't answer and ask how dare you ask in the first place.

I find the forum is cleaner without our favorite religious defending atheist's posts visible, and it will stay that way, forever.

Your life can only be improved.

because you think maybe, just maybe, there's something worthwhile in there, don't bother. I did that a couple of times out of curiosity, and it was just as vapid as ever. Nothing to see there.

Lets hope it becomes permanent.

I don't have anybody on ignore. Afraid I'll miss something entertaining or instructi...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Oh sorry. Poked my head into the *other* forum to check for updates, and dozed off there for a second.

maybe a spambot fro years ago, but no one current.

was enough for me.

...the ones who disagree with him, anyway. Maybe that's what he gave up for Lent?

Edit: not that he was exactly circumspect about it in the first place.

With rare exception, I haven't. It pleases me to no end to see his childish attempts to disguise his personal attacks and idiotic snark go unanswered, time and time again.

I can say that my DU experience is greatly improved.

If he had ever had something to contribute I would not have put him on ignore. He is not here to have a discussion.

Is there some meaty intellectual topic that he would "engage" with another thoughtful human being on?

So many posts in that "other forum" from believers, not just that single person, exhibit either the "look how victimized we are by those atheists who question and challenge our mythology" or the "look how wonderful we are".

The believers show a strong shiny polished veneer, and, underneath, in their reasoning, an intellectual dishonesty that shatters on impact, much like particleboard or sawdust.

Most postings over there, from all believers, I fear, represent the combination of "special pleadings" combined with false analogy or the inability to grasp logical thinking, or to grasp broader meanings, or the inability to grasp the simple discipline of neutral scientific inquiry.

And then there are those who post 7 days a week, seemingly 12-15 hours a day, those are the most special ones, offering so much insight into nothing more than their own adolescent fascination with the art of argumentation and self-love.

So I did the math. Her 90 day average daily post count is approximately the same as her lifetime average daily post count. Odd.

That leaves 14 hours for 90 posts per day, an average of about 6+ posts per hour.

Most waking hours of all days, every day since the beginning of one single membership, (each and every Christmas and, Easter, and Passover and Hanukkah included).



Remarkable, almost miraculous. Got to love that. I'm sure someone, somewhere, sailing in some sea does love that.

is the total number of posts in the last 90 days. divide that total by 90 to get the average daily post count over those 90 days. She averages around 30/day.

Consider me math-challenged.

Still, 30 per day, more than the average times we visit any bathroom to excrete.

...back away slowly...don't make eye contact...

method for this particular case.

a neutrino. Nothing there. No substance.

...as an A&A history lesson for any newbies?

Just askin'

It is a little strange when I see a thread that has say 75 replies but can only see a few of them. But it doesn't bother me. You guys knock yourselves out.

Guess I'll be having steak this Friday.

because the high school cafeteria always served it to appease the pope fellators. I like fish, but never on Friday

felt someone should be forced to give up DU for Lent (and beyond).

god has a plan for all of us. Guess this is it.

happen for really good reasons.

The intellectual dishonesty of some of those people is stunning. But not surprising. Logic and reason do not easily, if ever, penetrate their skulls. You can't even pin them down about their beliefs they are so busy defending. They actually say "You can believe anything you want and be a Christian." That is utter bullshit and we all know it.

I say this as a secular humanist, Unitarian-Universalist identifying person reading lots of Buddhism for years and years. Raised as a casual Presbyterian, which was basically a social club for liberal, educated people. I am so glad that nobody threatened me with hell, or acted like literalist fundies, when I was growing up in one of the most educated types of Protestantism. I liked to sing in the choir and went to Sunday School to try to get dates with cute guys. Didn't work very well. I didn't really ask questions, I just used it as a social club.

It was in my senior year of college (1979) that I discovered UUs and found out where I belonged. I belonged in a church that accepted everybody, for real, and was full of atheists, agnostics, and questioners who liked to get together on Sunday morning without having to hear the destructive message and mass delusion of Christianity.

I attended and graduated from a small, prestigious Presbyterian college with a damn good liberal arts education, which included a couple of amazing religion courses. Courses that opened my mind tremendously because they were about sociology and anthropology of religion, not about doctrine or brainwashing the students in the proper denomination.

The professor, who I have mentioned many times before as a truly wonderful professor, is a Princeton Seminary graduate who is an expert at ancient languages, not to mention Latin and Greek. So he knows his history. The religion department at the school I went to no longer requires all students to take 6 hours of religion, but they do have a Division of Asian Studies now.

The only one of the Abrahamic religions I have any tolerance for is Reform Judaism, because they seem to be a lot more sensible and reality oriented than the others. And some cool cultural traditions, like being well educated and accomplishing a lot. It's okay to be a Jew and get angry and shake your fist at god, and even make a comedy routine out of it. And it's okay to not be a Jew that is attending shul regularly, but still treasure the cultural traditions. Twice I tried to convert to Reform and got rejected because the rich doctors on the board of trustees didn't like that I wasn't employed. I volunteered to do work around the shul for no pay. And it never occurred to the board that one of them might have given me a job. The rabbi was cool, but I knew I wasn't wanted there because of the snobby board, so I stopped going.

I used to enjoy going to a Mahayana Buddhist temple in the big city and listening to the monks and nuns giving lessons to the English speaking group.