Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forum7 Weird Realities Of Growing Up Without A Religion
muriel_volestrangler posted this gem in the other room, so I thought I'd share it with the smart people who trashed that group:
Mathias Östlund
Growing up in Sweden is awesome in a lot of ways, but something we dont have much of is religion. Most of us grow up surrounded by atheism, and a lot of the times were not even introduced to the concept of God until we learn about it in school.
Honestly, I wasnt even entirely sure what a God was until I was about 8 years old. And as it turns out, not being indoctrinated into a religion until youre somewhat capable of critical thinking can have some pretty weird side-effects.
...
3. You start questioning peoples sanity
At first, I kind of just shrugged religion off as some sort of ridiculous stories, meant to entertain the generations that didnt have video games or the internet. So imagine my surprise when this kid in school told me he actually believed in God, and prayed to him every day. At first, I thought he was joking, and when I realized that he wasnt, I reacted in about the same way as I would if someone told me he actually believed in Super man.
Needless to say, I got sent to the principals office.
4. You cant tell if religion is real or not
After getting in trouble for making fun of that kids religion, I was more confused than ever if religion wasnt real, then why was it such a big deal to make fun of it? So I asked my teacher about it, and she gave some halfhearted explanation about how it was sort of real, but still wasnt.
So on one hand, religion was a real thing, and on the other hand it was just make-believe. For a kid who was still struggling with basic math, this wasnt exactly the easiest concept to grasp.
More: http://thoughtcatalog.com/mathias-ostlund/2015/05/7-weird-realities-of-growing-up-without-a-religion/
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)This is a much more comfortable place to hang out for me, since I don't really want to have confrontations unless I am in the right mood.
I cannot imagine how confused the writer was as a kid learning about religious privilege....it isn't real, but you cannot say that. WTF.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Not being brought up religious I spent most of my childhood going
And it's only gotten worse.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)I never understood it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I thought maybe there was something wrong with my family and I because we didn't believe.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)My family was just...not religious. It was just how it was. We did Easter and went through the motions of prayer during Christmas, but I never believed in it, and that was fine. I know my dad and brother don't either. My mom...I think she believes in god, but maybe not. None of us really gave enough of a crap to discuss it in depth haha.
I didn't really give it much thought until middle or high school, honestly. And then I realized just how much crazy shit people actually believe, and thought, thank goddess I'm not part of that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I really didn't understand what the a-word meant until much later.
I think your family was more the norm, I really doubt if many of my catholic friends bought everything the church was selling.
Maybe some of them will get more religious as they get older.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)You would think as people see more and more of it, they would question it more.
People confuse me.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Her mother had Alzheimer's and suffered for years.
The more she worries about it the more religious she gets.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)Or are there other forces that drive that as well?
It's really quite sad how terrified of death (and by extension, life) we are because of religion.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She's very obsessive compulsive and can't stray from the rules or vary her routine at all. And I mean at all. She's a workaholic with no hobbies other than reading the bible. When she retires in August I fear for her peace of mind.
I think if she lost her faith she'd go off the deep end.
She's a nice woman and a Democrat but I've never met anyone quite like her. 70+ yrs old and still getting face lifts, tummy tucks and other procedures. Spends 2 hrs a day doing her make up.
I want to age gracefully, trying to fight a losing battle is no way to spend middle/old age.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)Why do people tend to become more religious as they get older? And I don't mean demographically, but change within a particular demographic as they age.
I've known people like that. They are almost always terrified of the world, and have very low self-confidence. I always feel kinda bad for them. I wouldn't want to live in their world...
I think self-confidence is a particularly large factor in how likely you are to be religious, by the way, and also why so many atheists are considered arrogant.
As for me, no way in heck am I aging gracefully. I'll betcha anything I'll hit a certain point, and then become a fat, wrinkled old man almost overnight. Looking forward to it
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)My friends tell me the only people who go to mass anymore are little old ladies. They don't force their kids to go to church or catechism like their parents did.
I think you're right about the self-confidence thing, the churches really have the guilt/fear of dying thing down to a science - they pray on the weak.
People who've stopped obsessing over wrinkles and expanding waist lines do seem to be happier. It must be like letting go of religion.
You're free!!! Now go play!
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)My SO is quite religious, and there are many youth at her church. Than again, it's near a university, so I guess that would make sense. My main other experience with religion is with mormonism, and that's definitely an all ages thing.
I don't know if it was intended, but I'm laughing
Ha--SO just texted me encouraging me to eat "all the food". I think I may take her up on the suggestion
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I recognize some but not all of it.
I skipped the terrified stage, except when I was frightened by a glow-in-the-dark Jesus on the cross. Well, and Revelations freaked me out a little, like a ghost story.
It never occurred to me to pick a religion, although I was jealous of a Catholic friend because she got to go to catechism school, and I liked school.
Never had the slightest thought any deity might be real.
This puzzled my parents, especially my dad, but if you give a kid whatever she wants to read, especially mythology and Highlights (which had stories about all different religions), and she's reading practically upon exiting the womb, I don't know what else you'd expect.
Every once in a while Dad would have "the talk" - I would become religious when I was dying, he'd tell me. In retrospect, I think his issue was that I was, in essense, telling him I believed that *he* would not have life after death by my not being religious.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)"I was frightened by a glow-in-the-dark Jesus on the cross"
I get that. Seeing a dying guy on a cross over my friend's bed was bad enough, having it glow in the dark would have been doubly awful.
Interesting observation about your dad, you're probably right.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)It's not that they have a problem with our beliefs so much as our beliefs challenge theirs. This is why most don't have a problem with other religions, but are so hostile to atheism.
And yeah, what is up with the whole torture thing? Why is it not gone yet? It's 2015.
I had a friend who had a small statue of Jesus on the cross by his bed, and it had the thorns, the nails in his arms, the guy was screaming, blood was dripping down his body...fucking creepy. Gives me the shivers when I realize that people pray to this.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They start to doubt what they've believed all their lives.
And I always wondered why none of the kids dressed up like crucifix Christ for Halloween.
Still do. I mean zombies are really in right now.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)I so wish I could do that for Halloween. Get a bunch of friends together and go as a group of zombie gods
The children probably wouldn't care, but we could scare the crap out of the adults
Also, let's be clear on this: Jesus was never a zombie!
He was a lich:
Except!!! He might not actually be, according to recent scholarly analysis rooted in D&D manuals (which I think are just as valid as the original source for Jesus).
https://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/2014/04/21/hes-not-a-zombie-or-a-lich/
Their touch is so cold as to cause 1-10 points of damage and paralyze opponents who fail to make their saving throw. The mere sight of a lich will cause any creature below 5th level (or 5 hit dice) to flee in panic from fear. . . A lich appears very much as does a wight or mummy, being of skeletal form, eyesockets mere black holes with glowing points of light, and garments most often rotting (but most rich).
Next I considered some of the other usual suspects, but the story of Jesus just didnt fit any of those either. He cant be an illithid (mind flayer) because illithids are allergic to sunlight (along with a number of other potential candidates, like vampires), and the Gospels often mention Jesus being out in the sunlight and not at all scary-looking. Its doubtful hes a shapechanged dragon because he just doesnt seem smart enough or wise enough for that, though admittedly this Monster Manual is AD&D so the newer versions may have allowed for some different kinds of shape-changing dragons (sorry, Christians; looked at from the outside, nothing he said or did really seems very original and he didnt do a single thing to definitively amend or fix the atrocious Old Testaments slavery-advocating, rape-apologizing, woman-marginalizing, tribalism-enforcing, ignorance-celebrating stances, like tell people dont keep slaves or stop worrying about what other people do in private or even tell humans about Germ Theory or anything really useful).
I pored over the manual but found only one entry that really fit the bill.
Folks, we are going to have to entertain the serious idea that Jesus is actually a D&D-style Rakshasa (which, Im sure I dont need to mention, bears little relation to the real East Indian concept of them). The D&D-style Rakshasa fits him a lot better. Check this description out:
Known first in India, these evil spirits encased in flesh are spreading. They are fond of a diet of human meat, and as masters of illusion they can easily gain this end. Rakshasas are able to employ ESP and then create the illusion of what those who have encountered them deem friendly. They can then withhold attack until their prey can be taken off-guard. Although capable of using both magic users spells (up to 3rd level) and clerics spells (1st level), they are not affected by spells under the 8th level. Rakshasas cannot be harmed by non-magical weapons. . .
I just want to say: WOW. That seems to work better. A Rakshasa may have either been acting like Jesus the whole time, pretending to die during the Crucifixion and then resurrecting to get closer to his prey, or else took the place of him afterward and ate the bodywhich would make his followers even more convinced that hed resurrected!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)How do we know that he wasn't mindless and didn't eat brains when he came back?
They glossed over a lot of stuff you know.
Plus people didn't bathe regularly back then, it's entirely possible no one would have noticed the rotten odour coming from Jesus.
He could very well be a zombie or a Rakshasa.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)As "annoying to a lot of people," maybe..... ;->
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Not goody two shoes like my older brother.
My younger brother had it easy, I broke my parents in, took me years.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)It's just wrong to expose kids to religion at a young age, if you ask me. It's straight-up brainwashing. The church has understood the value of propaganda from it's inceptions. There's a reason that they have religious schools, sunday school, etc., etc. They are better propagandists than almost anyone in history, and immensely successful. I once read a fantastic analysis on all of the different tactics they use to either persuade, indoctrinate, bribe, force, or scare people into becoming part of the church. I wish I knew what it was, I'd love to post the link here.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I observed a lot of it via vacation Bible school (every summer through high school). I still remember asking one of the teachers why she thought Christianity was better than, say, Buddhism. It's a wonder I wasn't run out of east Texas on a rail.
I'd love to see the article you mention.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)A cursory search isn't turning anything up. I read it at least 4 or 5 years ago, though... But I'll keep looking.
Ha! You asked that question in a Bible school in east Texas? I'm shocked you're still around
progressoid
(50,747 posts)That happens to of people who grew up with religion too.
Now, that I think about it, all of those can apply to former believers too.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Come to the dark side, we have cookies...