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Rob H.

(5,568 posts)
Tue May 26, 2015, 10:39 PM May 2015

Vatican: Irish Gay Marriage Referendum a ‘Defeat for Humanity’

An excerpt follows. The full article is here.

Vatican: Irish Gay Marriage Referendum a ‘Defeat for Humanity’
By Elias Groll
May 26, 2015 - 6:00 pm

It was probably too much to expect that the Vatican would react positively to the news that Irish voters cast their ballots by overwhelming margins to legalize gay marriage, or that it would simply say nothing at all. But when the church, which had until now remained silent on Saturday’s results, finally did comment on the issue on Tuesday, Cardinal Pietro Parolin really did not mince his words.

“I believe that we are talking here not just about a defeat for Christian principles but also about a defeat for humanity,” Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, told reporters on the sidelines of a conference in Rome.

The referendum in Ireland, in which voters approved gay marriage by a 62.1 to 37.9 percent margin, was the first time such a right has been granted by popular national vote (in America, it has been legalized in some individual states by both referendum and court decision). It’s a huge defeat for the Catholic Church in a country where some 84 percent of the country is at least in theory an adherent to the faith, though the church has grown markedly less popular because of its handling of child sexual abuse by its priests and its hardline anti-abortion and anti-gay rights positions.

Following the vote, Irish church officials said its outcome should prompt a round of soul searching. “This is a social revolution,” the archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, told RTE Television. “The church has a huge task in front of it get its message across to young people … The church needs to do a reality check.”

...

So far, however, Francis has failed to gain approval of more liberal church doctrine on a series of social and sexual issues, including abortion and same-sex marriage. The gulf between Francis’s rhetoric and official church policy has been particularly striking at the United Nations, where the Holy See’s diplomats at the United Nations continue to work hard to block progressive policies on sexual and reproductive right that they see as being in conflict with traditional church teachings.
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Vatican: Irish Gay Marriage Referendum a ‘Defeat for Humanity’ (Original Post) Rob H. May 2015 OP
On the contrary, deucemagnet May 2015 #1
Hmmm, what will the wonderpope doooooooo? nt uriel1972 May 2015 #2
Well, a defeat for the Catholic Church at least. mr blur May 2015 #3
But but but Pope Awesome said something nice once!!! PeaceNikki May 2015 #4
Of course the article is very misleading in the sense that skepticscott May 2015 #5
Exactly Rob H. May 2015 #6
Hey c'mon they are making a saint out of Romero Warren Stupidity May 2015 #9
Fuck. The. Catholic. Church. truebrit71 May 2015 #7
mmm hmm. The existence of the RCC is a ‘Defeat for Humanity’. PeaceNikki May 2015 #8
I love how now the argument has shifted to "But 62% of voters voted for it!" Rob H. May 2015 #10
But, but the pope said "who am I to judge?" Major Nikon May 2015 #13
The RCC nil desperandum May 2015 #11
As with all religions, Curmudgeoness May 2015 #12
where the Holy See’s diplomats at the United Nations continue to work hard to block progressive... AlbertCat May 2015 #14
Throughout my lifetime I have known good, devout, believing Catholics mountain grammy May 2015 #15
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
5. Of course the article is very misleading in the sense that
Wed May 27, 2015, 06:54 AM
May 2015

Francis has not pushed for liberalization of any church doctrine. The Vatican PR machine has had him spewing fuzzy-wuzzy rhetoric by the boatload, but neither he nor the church have done anything but stand fast on current doctrine. But the PR game is apparently working, since the media is swallowing it and regurgitating.

Rob H.

(5,568 posts)
6. Exactly
Wed May 27, 2015, 09:32 AM
May 2015

It's all just a bunch of talk at this point to make him (and the church) seem warm 'n' fuzzy but the reality is that nothing has really changed, no matter how much some people wish otherwise.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
9. Hey c'mon they are making a saint out of Romero
Wed May 27, 2015, 11:46 AM
May 2015

which is a big step seeing as how their initial reaction was to kick the liberation theologists out of the church.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
7. Fuck. The. Catholic. Church.
Wed May 27, 2015, 10:26 AM
May 2015

How anyone, ANYONE can still be a part of this organization, never mind defend it like some do in that other group, is beyond me.

The cognitive dissonance that requires simply beggars belief...

Rob H.

(5,568 posts)
10. I love how now the argument has shifted to "But 62% of voters voted for it!"
Wed May 27, 2015, 12:22 PM
May 2015

That does absolutely nothing to change the fact that the RCC opposed it and not only said what they said, their spokesperson clarified to say that the RCC absolutely believes the referendum was a "defeat for humanity." But no, the church isn't bigoted because reasons.

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)
13. But, but the pope said "who am I to judge?"
Thu May 28, 2015, 08:54 AM
May 2015

Albeit between other statements claiming the gay agenda is the work of the devil.

nil desperandum

(654 posts)
11. The RCC
Wed May 27, 2015, 02:26 PM
May 2015

has been on the wrong side of most historically important social decisions. I am reminded of a quote from Oliver Ellsworth (at least I think it was his quote if memory serves):

"Systems of religious error have been adopted, in times of ignorance. It has been the interest of tyrannical kings, popes, and prelates, to maintain these errors. When the clouds of ignorance began to vanish, and the people grew more enlightened, there was no other way to keep them in error, but to prohibit their altering their religious opinions by severe persecuting laws. In this way persecution became general throughout Europe.”

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
12. As with all religions,
Wed May 27, 2015, 04:32 PM
May 2015

following them would mean that there would never be any social or political change for the better.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
14. where the Holy See’s diplomats at the United Nations continue to work hard to block progressive...
Thu May 28, 2015, 11:29 AM
May 2015

The Holy See's diplomats can just go away. Why should some sect of some religion get a seat at the UN table? There are plenty of Catholic countries there already.

mountain grammy

(27,273 posts)
15. Throughout my lifetime I have known good, devout, believing Catholics
Thu May 28, 2015, 12:10 PM
May 2015

who felt strongly that they were following the teachings of their Lord and Savior. They practiced birth control, were pro choice, embraced their gay friends and worked for marriage equality. In short, they believed in their faith and in humanity. If they were Irish, they would have voted with the majority. The Catholic hierarchy has always been out of touch with the flock.

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