Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
Wed May 27, 2015, 08:50 AM May 2015

Are there cracks in America’s Christian foundation?

Never mind those misguided folks at Pew. Several religious leaders weigh in to calm the flock and protect them from the disheartening news of their recent survey.

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/05/texas-faith-are-there-cracks-in-americas-christian-foundation.html/

You can go read the whole thing if you want, it's funny to see all the contortions they're doing in order to avoid confronting the truth. There are some good contributions from the religious minorities: a rabbi, a UU pastor, a Muslim interfaith leader, and a "none." But to summarize:

1) The data can't be trusted. Because reasons.
2) Those poor misguided Pew folks didn't take into account the power of the Holy Spirit. (The X-FACTOR!!)
3) A 9% drop is greater than an 8% drop so really 8% isn't a big deal.
4) See #1 again.
5) Atheists are stupid and evil, and atheism is a belief system too.
6) The media misrepresented the results. (Refer to #1 again for good measure.)
7) The people leaving religion are wrong and just didn't have the right faith.

And there you have it. Again I am happy to see the worst faith offenders doing anything but looking at themselves and their own churches. This will only help hasten their demise.

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Are there cracks in America’s Christian foundation? (Original Post) trotsky May 2015 OP
News flash for religious leaders.. mountain grammy May 2015 #1
I could not agree more. You made a significant point. Curmudgeoness May 2015 #5
I love his money shot skepticscott May 2015 #2
Yes of course. trotsky May 2015 #3
But...we need GENUINE renewal! onager May 2015 #7
but WTF does it even mean? AlbertCat May 2015 #8
'whistling past the graveyard' doesn't begin to cover it muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #4
many believers edhopper May 2015 #6
It takes tons of energy to keep these faiths from looking like.... AlbertCat May 2015 #9

mountain grammy

(27,273 posts)
1. News flash for religious leaders..
Wed May 27, 2015, 09:02 AM
May 2015

the fundamentalist bullshit turns people off. Get religion out of government and out of politics NOW! It's as toxic and corrupting as big money.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
5. I could not agree more. You made a significant point.
Wed May 27, 2015, 04:49 PM
May 2015

I am just glad that the religious leaders are not likely to be reading your advice, because they might be inclined to take it. And that could lead to fewer people being turned off by them.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
2. I love his money shot
Wed May 27, 2015, 09:17 AM
May 2015
Some have called for change in teaching, but usually by those who just simply know nothing about theology. No, what is needed is a renewal of faith, rooted in truth and the Holy Spirit — genuine renewal.

This is the kind of blather that the faitheists over in Religion tout as theological profundity (usually with a shot at the allegedly uncomprehending "New Atheists" thrown in), but WTF does it even mean? A "renewal of faith"? More like, STFU, stop questioning and just BELIEVE WHAT YOURE TOLD! And "rooted in truth"? If something were demonstrable truth, why the fuck would you need "faith" to be convinced of it? And of course, throwing in the vague and undefinable Holy Spirity thing is just the cherry on top of an intellectual dung heap.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
3. Yes of course.
Wed May 27, 2015, 09:33 AM
May 2015

It's not a problem with religion - it's just that we haven't tried the TRUE religion!

onager

(9,356 posts)
7. But...we need GENUINE renewal!
Thu May 28, 2015, 08:47 AM
May 2015

How's that different from a regular old non-genuine renewal? Beats me. I think it's something like...

The Emperor's jockstrap is made of finest linen, not ordinary cotton.

It reminds me of the hilarious scene with the phony street preacher in Flannery O'Connor's Wise Blood (from memory):

"Y'all listen to the prophet! His church is different. Because it's...uh...hmm...ah...it's NEW!"

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
8. but WTF does it even mean?
Thu May 28, 2015, 11:11 AM
May 2015

Something to do with quantum vibrations.....


or is it the Universal Consciousness (TM)?


At least it's not Sciencism!.... or something....

muriel_volestrangler

(102,479 posts)
4. 'whistling past the graveyard' doesn't begin to cover it
Wed May 27, 2015, 10:12 AM
May 2015

Worst are the Catholic priest, who just says 'forget reality - I hold The Truth'; the "Distinguished Professor of History" who just says "screw your question", and then lies that the "vast majority" of 'nones' regularly attend church (Jeez, hasn't he heard that even the majority of Americans claiming a faith don't regularly attend church?); and the guy from the Dallas Theological Seminary who does a victory dance over the Catholics and mainline Protestants with "having a faith that is really a faith in God may be the lesson in that difference". With friends like that, the mainline churches don't need enemies.

edhopper

(34,810 posts)
6. many believers
Thu May 28, 2015, 08:35 AM
May 2015

think that when they question their faith, it is a test, so they must, somehow, find a way back to it.
The have to ignore the very real questions that would lead to dismissing their faith.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
9. It takes tons of energy to keep these faiths from looking like....
Thu May 28, 2015, 11:20 AM
May 2015

..... the bunch of bunk they are. All that work for years and years to keep the reality of it at bay. No wonder it's hard to give it up.... you must put so much into it. My atheism seems effortless.

And I love the appeal to theology.

Theology is what intelligent people came up with to make their struggle with keeping the fact that it's bunk away look scholarly. To me it's like learning Klingon.... when you coulda learned, y'know, French or something. Theology is arguing whether Santa Claus comes down the chimney head first or feet first.

Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»Atheists & Agnostics»Are there cracks in Ameri...