How I tried to get the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the Interfaith group.
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Renew Deal (a host of the Religion group) in the 'Religion' group. Let's try it here. The role of the Sacred Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster in society needs to be discussed and clarified.My initial post to the site admins:
Someone speaking in the collective name of the religions of the bronze age (hrmjustin) suggested my religion, that of the Holy Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, would probably not be welcome in the interfaith forum, having to be confined to the forums for skeptics.
This is unfair as we are believers and would not enjoy having to mingle with skeptics, atheists, agnostics and other such unsavory characters. We would like to bask in the joy of sharing our religious experience with like minded believers such as the Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and all the other men and women of true faith (even if their faiths are not that which pleases the eternal Flying Spaghetti Monster, may peace and grated cheese be upon it always).
In short, we, believers in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would like to have equal rights with the more established religions, even if we are a new and minority religion.
For your kind attention, and may the pasta be with you.
RAmen.
Skinner's negative answer:
As for whether nonbelievers should be permitted in the Interfaith group, that is entirely up to the hosts of that group. I tend to think the minimum requirement to participate in that group is a desire to foster greater civility and understanding, as per the group's statement of purpose:
A safe haven that provides opportunities for people of all faiths, spiritual leanings and non-belief to discuss religious topics and events in a positive and civil manner, with an emphasis on tolerance. Criticisms of individual beliefs or non-belief, or debates about the existence of higher power(s) are not appropriate in this group.
Posting facetiously about actually believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster could probably be taken as evidence that one in not interested in fostering greater understanding and tolerance.
My regretful acknowledgment of the refusal.
You delegated authority to mods, and it is the right thing for you to stand by the opinion of the mods you appointed. Decision made and point taken.
But, in the name of fairness, since hrmjustin PMd you to make the case against letting the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster in the interfaith group, I write this answer to simply state what would have been the arguments for accepting our Church in the interfaith group:
(1) Interfaith is meant for people of all faiths, so the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster qualifies, as the founder of the FSM Church stated that it is a true Church of a real religion. Since its founder says so, why disbelieve a man of religion when he speaks?
(2) But, for argument sake, if you think the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster is just atheists strutting under a false flag, they still would have their place in the interfaith forum which is "A safe haven .. for people of all faiths, spiritual leanings and non-belief"
And there is nothing to say they would not meet "the minimum requirement to participate in that group" being "a desire to foster greater civility and understanding". I did ask questions in a civil way to hrmjustin about Moses with a clear intent to further the common understanding of that character of the Torah. That was in the 'Religion' forum, it could have been in the 'interfaith' forum.
(3) Now let's be honest, you do formulate what could be the only obstacle to membership of the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster to the interfaith forum: that the name of that Church could be felt to be a mockery of religions (negated in 1, but let's imagine).
Then we would have a group of atheists highlighting through a parable what they feel to be religious questions to be discussed. Saying the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster (grated parmigiano be upon it) created the Universe in one day is one way to discuss cosmology and the weaknesses of the two genesis stories in the Bible. Saying the Flying Spaghetti Monster (tomato sauce be upon it always) welcomes every sinner in its heaven is an image allowing to question the notion of the original sin. Disrespect could only be in the tone, and most members of our Church are extremely civil and polite. Who says humor is disrespectful when discussing cosmology?
(4) One last point which is comparative: assuming the Church of the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster are atheists, why would they not be better discussion partners to discuss religion and cosmology than believers in established but violent religions of the past?
There is a religion in England of 'Neo-druidism'. National Geographic recently revealed evidence that suggests that Druids possibly committed cannibalism and ritual human sacrifice. Who should engage in interfaith dialog? Cannibal druids or vegetarian Pastafarians?
Anyway, this was all for argument sake.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster (parmigiano be upon it) will not be mentioned in Interfaith.
May Pasta be upon you.
= new reply since forum marked as read
I'm not a host but fyi discussion of Interfaith is discouraged here.
There's a lot of history behind that decision, trust me - it's a good one.
If you want to discuss the benefits of being a Pastafarian I'm game.
Spaghetti or lasagna?
RAmen.
Your secret decoder ring, rubber chicken and handbook are probably on the way, if you don't receive them by Monday contact the home office.
Spaghetti's always good (fried leftover is the best!) but I'm a lasagna convert because of the opportunities for cheese and veggies.
The A&A Safe Haven status is simply not respected by a number of religionistas and faitheists.
Who do you think alerts on posts made in here? It's pathetic and rather sad, but it's true.
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal] And I agree with you. But, the way groups are set up, hosts get final say. It is pretty sucky in this situation, but that is the way it is. But, I guess I can understand. I wouldn't want other groups coming in here and trying to dictate to our hosts what should and should not be allowed.
The SoP in that group says both believers and non-believers are welcome, and it would lead you to believe that interfaith is another version of religion but with stronger enforcement of civility, but in reality it is anything but that.
Thread after thread after thread attacking the four horsemen are allowed in there, but if you criticize the pope even once you will get banned. Using any term deemed the least bit offensive to believers in there and you will be banned. But calling atheists militant or fundamentalist is perfectly fine and to even suggest that it is a prerogative, even if you are not disagreeing with anyone and just explaining why it is viewed that way, and even if you are being polite and civil about it, will get threads started petitioning that you get banned.
Simply put, it is a safehaven for believers and their allies/supporters. And even then, it is not all believers, but rather just believers of mainstream religions. Scientologist (and apparently pastafarians) or any small religious group are fine to criticize. I guess, they are not considered "real" religions whatever that means.
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Anyways, maybe the solution to this is to fight fire with fire.
Maybe you should start a petition thread in general suggesting that a Pastafarian group gets created. If I understand the rules correctly, if you can get 10 people to support the creation of the group in a petition thread, then you can go to ATA and they will create a pastafarian group for you.
Put a link here and I (and probably others here) would support you.
But again, sorry for your poor treatment in the other other forum.
May your marinara be sweet and plentiful.
[/font]I don't think anyone in my life told me anything as sweet as
It nearly brought tears to my ever emotional eyes.
But enough emotivity.
I'm game.
I'll write that petition.
Wish me luck not to be banned/reported/hidden/whatever under whatsoever rule 36§417#b.
You've got to admire the sheer bollocks of the man.
The first batch of helicopters crahed in a hurricane.
He mortgaged up to his last cent to buy a new fleet.
Takes faith (of a nobler kind than religious)
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Maybe we can do the petition thread in here instead. Especially if we put a note that this thread is being posted in the A&A safehaven?[/font]
you talk about the FSM and all the healthy, vegetarian rituals.
But in reality you are just worshiping the elder God Cthulhu.
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I defy anyone to read this and not chuckle
Numbers 22:21-39 American Standard Version (ASV)
21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
22 And God's anger was kindled because he went; and the angel of Jehovah placed himself in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
23 And the ass saw the angel of Jehovah standing in the way, with his sword drawn in his hand; and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
24 Then the angel of Jehovah stood in a narrow path between the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.
25 And the ass saw the angel of Jehovah, and she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again.
26 And the angel of Jehovah went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
27 And the ass saw the angel of Jehovah, and she lay down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with his staff.
28 And Jehovah opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me, I would there were a sword in my hand, for now I had killed thee.
30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden all thy life long unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay.
31 Then Jehovah opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of Jehovah standing in the way, with his sword drawn in his hand; and he bowed his head, and fell on his face.
32 And the angel of Jehovah said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I am come forth for an adversary, because thy way is perverse before me:
33 and the ass saw me, and turned aside before me these three times: unless she had turned aside from me, surely now I had even slain thee, and saved her alive.
34 And Balaam said unto the angel of Jehovah, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again.
35 And the angel of Jehovah said unto Balaam, Go with the men; but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
36 And when Balak heard that Balaam was come, he went out to meet him unto the City of Moab, which is on the border of the Arnon, which is in the utmost part of the border.
37 And Balak said unto Balaam, Did I not earnestly send unto thee to call thee? wherefore camest thou not unto me? am I not able indeed to promote thee to honor?
38 And Balaam said unto Balak, Lo, I am come unto thee: have I now any power at all to speak anything? the word that God putteth in my mouth, that shall I speak.
39 And Balaam went with Balak, and they came unto Kiriath-huzoth.
