Atheists & Agnostics

deucemagnet

(4,549 posts) Sat Jul 18, 2015, 01:25 PM Jul 2015

Mass exodus continues from German Catholic Church

Mass exodus continues from German Catholic Church

Catholic World News - July 17, 2015

More than 200,000 Germans formally left the Catholic Church in 2014, accelerating the downward trend in the Catholic proportion of the country’s population.

Germans who are officially enrolled in congregation are subject to a “church tax,” and so disaffected Catholics have an incentive to drop their registration, rather than simply stop attending Mass. The number of Catholics taking that step has increased sharply in recent years.

In 2013, 178,805 Catholics formally dropped off the parish rolls in Germany. In 2014 that figure jumped by 22%, to 217,716, according to official statistic released by the German bishops’ conference.

The statistics show that while more than 200,000 people left the Church in Germany, only 2,809 entered, and 6,314 others were “readmitted.” Cardinal Reinhard Marx, the president of the German bishops’ conference, observed that the departures from the Catholic Church reflect “personal life decisions that in every case we profoundly regret, but we also respect the freedom of choice.”

https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=25567

How exactly does one formally leave the Catholic Church? I just stopped going.

On edit: Apparently in Germany there's something called a "Church Tax". "Formally leaving" is removing yourself from the tax roll. Though the idea of a church tax seems strange, I think I'd prefer it to the tax exemptions we have here. At least with such a tax only the churchgoers are subsidizing the churches.

12 replies

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Mass exodus continues from German Catholic Church (Original Post) deucemagnet Jul 2015 OP

looks like you are officially enrolled at some stage uriel1972 Jul 2015 #1

Yes, you must have been posting as I was editing. deucemagnet Jul 2015 #3

Apparently one tells the church to cancel registration Warpy Jul 2015 #2

I think that you hit the nail on the head. Curmudgeoness Jul 2015 #4

so the ones who drop the registration could still go to church. AlbertCat Jul 2015 #6

I don't know...would it be a sin? Curmudgeoness Jul 2015 #8

I wouldn't have thought there were that many Catholic Germans RussBLib Jul 2015 #5

Ben Franklin... onager Jul 2015 #7

Don't make it sound like so much fun Curmudgeoness Jul 2015 #9

Sort of like sneaking into a strip club without paying the cover charge. AlbertCat Jul 2015 #10

Since the church tax is fully deductible it seems to me that government is subsidizing the churches LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #11

And of course the catholic church will lie cheat and steal to get that money too. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #12

uriel1972

(4,261 posts)

1. looks like you are officially enrolled at some stage

Reply to deucemagnet (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 01:31 PM

Jul 2015

as the government takes a church tax, so I assume you go down to a local government office and fill out a form.
Not an issue I suppose in a country which does not formally have a religious tax.

deucemagnet

(4,549 posts)

3. Yes, you must have been posting as I was editing.

Reply to uriel1972 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 01:35 PM

Jul 2015

I lived in Germany, I should have known this.

Warpy

(113,130 posts)

2. Apparently one tells the church to cancel registration

Reply to deucemagnet (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 01:32 PM

Jul 2015

in Germany. I imagine similar registration is at the Protestant churches since there is a tax to pay for the privilege of being told one is going to hell once a week.

I know that even if I believed that crap, that would send me out the door.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)

4. I think that you hit the nail on the head.

Reply to Warpy (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 01:39 PM

Jul 2015

I am not sure that all of these people who "unregistered" have really "left" the church. I suppose that there are no church tax police who check everyone's registration as they enter a church, so the ones who drop the registration could still go to church. At least I think so. But either way, they could still believe....although with the RCC, I am not sure that they will be able to confess and take communion, and these are biggies.

Interesting that they have a "church tax" that is collected from the members instead of the church though. I'm not sure that I believe that is the way to go. I wonder how that got into the tax code.

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)

6. so the ones who drop the registration could still go to church.

Reply to Curmudgeoness (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 02:40 PM

Jul 2015

Wouldn't that be a "sin"?

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)

8. I don't know...would it be a sin?

Reply to AlbertCat (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 19, 2015, 01:45 PM

Jul 2015

It isn't one of the biggies listed in the Ten Commandments, and in fact one of the biggies is to NOT forget the sabbath. So there you go, you must go to church anyways. But then there is that "render unto Caesar" thing that could get in the way of a good argument to attend mass anyways. I'm sure as hell glad that I don't have to worry about all these rules.

RussBLib

(9,666 posts)

5. I wouldn't have thought there were that many Catholic Germans

Reply to deucemagnet (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 02:17 PM

Jul 2015

200,000 left and only 2809 joined, while 6314 "readmitted". That's some major shrinkage.

Now if Merkel would just lighten up a bit.

onager

(9,356 posts)

7. Ben Franklin...

Reply to deucemagnet (Original post)

Sun Jul 19, 2015, 07:04 AM

Jul 2015

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, ‘tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one. - Letter to Richard Price. October 9, 1790.

Thanks, this was interesting. I'd always heard about the German church tax and this makes it a little clearer. Probably some believers, as noted, will keep worshipping after taking themselves off the official tax rolls.

That does seem like cheating. Sort of like sneaking into a strip club without paying the cover charge.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)

9. Don't make it sound like so much fun

Reply to onager (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 19, 2015, 01:48 PM

Jul 2015

to break the law and avoid the tax!

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)

10. Sort of like sneaking into a strip club without paying the cover charge.

Reply to onager (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 19, 2015, 04:02 PM

Jul 2015

A secret tax haven....

hidden in the nave

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)

11. Since the church tax is fully deductible it seems to me that government is subsidizing the churches

Reply to deucemagnet (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:51 AM

Jul 2015

by requiring that members pay the tax. I find the idea utterly distasteful.

I am almost certain that at least some among those numbers have decided that they prefer not to support an organization that houses and protects pederast priests. That would be my educated guess.

http://www.dw.com/en/german-catholics-leave-church-in-droves/a-14971010

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

12. And of course the catholic church will lie cheat and steal to get that money too.

Reply to deucemagnet (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:28 PM

Jul 2015

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=25430

The government of Norway is demanding $5.1 million from the Oslo diocese, in compensation for what the government sees as fraud in the inflated reporting of Church membership figures.

The government charges that the Oslo diocese obtained nearly $6 million in state subsidies by routinely registering immigrants as Catholics if they came from predominantly Catholic countries, without obtaining any evidence of the immigrants’ actual affiliations. The government charges that of the 65,500 new Catholics registered by the Oslo diocese between 2010 and 2014, more than 56,000 were not confirmed as Catholics.

Fucking thieves. Stealing for jesus.

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