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Once a Jew, always a Jew? (Original Post) DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 OP
I dunno. SusanCalvin Sep 2015 #1
We're Jewish enough to go to the ovens. needledriver Sep 2015 #2
When my folks first moved to NC Warpy Sep 2015 #3
That's discussed in the book. DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #4
My dear friend Ira is an atheist Duppers Sep 2015 #5
If the mother that gives birth to you is Jewish mountain grammy Sep 2015 #6
Why does that make me Jewish? DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #14
Of course it doesn't mountain grammy Sep 2015 #15
Assimilation wasn't high in Eastern Europe DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #16
Lordy.... that Jewish thing again. AlbertCat Sep 2015 #7
I have red hair DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #8
Dawkins has called himself a 'Cultural Christian'. progressoid Sep 2015 #9
I know DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #10
Sure, but he's not alone. progressoid Sep 2015 #11
Hm, I would check atheist Rainforestgoddess Sep 2015 #12
In this sense that I am of Irish - Jewish heritage. Warren Stupidity Sep 2015 #13
I am an atheist and a Jew edhopper Sep 2015 #17
I have divested myself of it DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #18
That is your choice edhopper Sep 2015 #19
Yes DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #21
Nazi ovens edhopper Sep 2015 #22
A remarkably common and utterly silly response. DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #23
Thank you for the oh so condescending remark edhopper Sep 2015 #24
That the response is remarkably common is a simple factual observation DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #25
Only when they say their opinion is the only right one edhopper Sep 2015 #26
What makes you assume that I have never experienced anti-semitism? DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #27
You have far more patience than I do. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #28
My patience did run out. edhopper Sep 2015 #29
I wouldn't have lasted half as long. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #30
I should have said, I left it behind. DavidDvorkin Sep 2015 #20

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
1. I dunno.
Wed Sep 16, 2015, 10:41 PM
Sep 2015

I've been an atheist since I knew what the word meant, but there are quite a few Jewish cultural things that I like, and people. Always said if I was anything I'd be Jewish.

 

needledriver

(836 posts)
2. We're Jewish enough to go to the ovens.
Wed Sep 16, 2015, 11:04 PM
Sep 2015

It doesn't make any difference if you don't bend your neck to the Bronze Age Sky Fairy. If one of your grandparents was Jewish, you were fatally tainted in Aryan eyes.

Warpy

(113,130 posts)
3. When my folks first moved to NC
Wed Sep 16, 2015, 11:09 PM
Sep 2015

we were eating supper on the screened back porch, where it was a bit cooler. There was a noise inside the house and my dad got up to investigate, followed by my mother, followed by me (of course). There was an old biddy standing in our living room, gawping at the furniture. She turned to my parents and said "Why, you Jews live just like white people do!"

Welcome to Dixie.

I didn't have a clue before that, the surname was a little ambiguous because so many had been forcibly converted across Europe and my mother was Irish.

So yeah, it doesn't take much for an antisemite.

Duppers

(28,246 posts)
5. My dear friend Ira is an atheist
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 06:18 AM
Sep 2015

and Jewish via his Hebrew heritage.

He eats whatever whenever, never attends synagogue or made his kids go, married an Irish woman, etc. His parents were "reformed" before they escaped Poland. He will always be identified as Jewish by his apprearance and name, which is recognized in many film credits, so I'm very proud to know the dear man.



mountain grammy

(27,273 posts)
6. If the mother that gives birth to you is Jewish
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 08:23 AM
Sep 2015

you're Jewish. That's me and my kids.. Jewish atheists. And with my mother's maiden name of Zuckerman floating around, all our blond hair and blue eyes wouldn't keep us out of the cattle cars.

DavidDvorkin

(19,890 posts)
14. Why does that make me Jewish?
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 08:27 PM
Sep 2015

In what sense?

As for the Nazis, that argument says that I should call myself a Jew even though I don't consider myself one because the Nazis would have. I should adhere to their theories of race. Nope.

mountain grammy

(27,273 posts)
15. Of course it doesn't
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 12:39 AM
Sep 2015

Just repeating what I learned from my Jewish mother. my family left Poland before WWII, seeing their share of persecution. They never considered themselves Polish because Poland didn't. They identified themselves as Jewish, more of a race than a religion.

DavidDvorkin

(19,890 posts)
16. Assimilation wasn't high in Eastern Europe
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 09:00 AM
Sep 2015

Needless to say.

My mother grew up in a Lithuanian shtetl. She left in time, as did some of her siblings, but her mother and the rest of her family died in the Holocaust. They certainly never considered themselves Lithuanians. She sometimes called herself a Litvak, but the way she and others like her used the word, it meant a Lithuanian Jew, as distinguished from Jews from elsewhere, not a Lithuanian.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
7. Lordy.... that Jewish thing again.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 10:13 AM
Sep 2015

It's like when someone says Israel is not a religious nation.... but you can't escape that promise their god made to Abraham.... so at it roots it's religious.

You'd think since Hitler used being Jewish as some kind of non-religious category ...a "race"... that Jews would reject it being anything but a religion with traditions.

I don't understand it either.

But anti-semitism is just weird. I got called a "stupid Jew!" and a "kike" in Jr High all the time. I guess because I have a big nose....I dunno. I'm not Jewish at all. We are Scotts.... and supposedly Presbyterians. I pointed this out in astonishment to the bullies and they said "You don't have to lie about it." Wait...what?

Weird.

DavidDvorkin

(19,890 posts)
8. I have red hair
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 10:15 AM
Sep 2015

(Well, had, back when I had hair.)

Schoolmates would insist I must be at least partly Irish, because apparently those are the only people in the world with red hair.

progressoid

(50,747 posts)
11. Sure, but he's not alone.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 01:39 PM
Sep 2015

I know quite a few people who practice none of the actual tenets of Christianity - even losely defined - yet would check the box next to Christian on a questionnaire.

Go figure.

Rainforestgoddess

(436 posts)
12. Hm, I would check atheist
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 02:42 PM
Sep 2015

Yet I love (the secular aspects) of christmas. I know some atheists reject all religious traditions but I don't see a purpose in that. Of course, there's very little "christian" in yule logs, trees, gifts and a feast.

edhopper

(34,802 posts)
17. I am an atheist and a Jew
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 10:13 AM
Sep 2015

In Nazi Germany, I would be considered a Jew, (as my family was) no matter my religious beliefs. There is a lot of jewish heritage that is part of me. I don't run away from it.

edhopper

(34,802 posts)
19. That is your choice
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 10:31 AM
Sep 2015

My upbringing is still part of me.
Do you have a problem with other atheist who still consider themselves Jews?

DavidDvorkin

(19,890 posts)
21. Yes
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 10:59 AM
Sep 2015

That's why I wrote the book. I think they should ask themselves what they mean by calling themselves Jews. What distinguishes them from an atheist who does not have Jewish ancestry?

edhopper

(34,802 posts)
24. Thank you for the oh so condescending remark
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 01:24 PM
Sep 2015

you are obviously of superior intellect and actualization and all need to follow exactly what you think about their heritage.

DavidDvorkin

(19,890 posts)
25. That the response is remarkably common is a simple factual observation
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 01:31 PM
Sep 2015

I've heard it for decades from many different people.

I discuss at great length in the book why I think it's silly. The book, and some of the essays on my Web site, are my observations on these matters, the result of many decades of observation and thought. Nowhere have I issued any orders. I have instead expressed my opinion, strongly in many cases. Do you always condemn people for doing all of the above, or only in this case?

edhopper

(34,802 posts)
26. Only when they say their opinion is the only right one
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 01:40 PM
Sep 2015

and all others are silly. You did not simply express your opinion, it is you sir, who condemned. it is you who said you have a problems with people who differ.
If you ahve ever been the victim of antisemitism, you would know your beliefs are immaterial to those who hate you.
But keep up the "I am right, all others are wrong' stand. It will serve you well.

Bye, I have nothing left to add.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
28. You have far more patience than I do.
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 01:54 PM
Sep 2015

Dismissing your opinion as "silly" tells you eveything you need to know about their "interest" in other's opinions.

I'm sure their book is fascinating.


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