Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumOnce a Jew, always a Jew?
In the U.S.A., six million people call themselves Jews, but 22% of them say they have no religion. Many are atheists. In what sense are they Jews? I say, in no sense at all.
http://www.dvorkin.com/oajew/
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I've been an atheist since I knew what the word meant, but there are quite a few Jewish cultural things that I like, and people. Always said if I was anything I'd be Jewish.
needledriver
(836 posts)It doesn't make any difference if you don't bend your neck to the Bronze Age Sky Fairy. If one of your grandparents was Jewish, you were fatally tainted in Aryan eyes.
Warpy
(113,130 posts)we were eating supper on the screened back porch, where it was a bit cooler. There was a noise inside the house and my dad got up to investigate, followed by my mother, followed by me (of course). There was an old biddy standing in our living room, gawping at the furniture. She turned to my parents and said "Why, you Jews live just like white people do!"
Welcome to Dixie.
I didn't have a clue before that, the surname was a little ambiguous because so many had been forcibly converted across Europe and my mother was Irish.
So yeah, it doesn't take much for an antisemite.
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)Duppers
(28,246 posts)and Jewish via his Hebrew heritage.
He eats whatever whenever, never attends synagogue or made his kids go, married an Irish woman, etc. His parents were "reformed" before they escaped Poland. He will always be identified as Jewish by his apprearance and name, which is recognized in many film credits, so I'm very proud to know the dear man.
mountain grammy
(27,273 posts)you're Jewish. That's me and my kids.. Jewish atheists. And with my mother's maiden name of Zuckerman floating around, all our blond hair and blue eyes wouldn't keep us out of the cattle cars.
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)In what sense?
As for the Nazis, that argument says that I should call myself a Jew even though I don't consider myself one because the Nazis would have. I should adhere to their theories of race. Nope.
mountain grammy
(27,273 posts)Just repeating what I learned from my Jewish mother. my family left Poland before WWII, seeing their share of persecution. They never considered themselves Polish because Poland didn't. They identified themselves as Jewish, more of a race than a religion.
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)Needless to say.
My mother grew up in a Lithuanian shtetl. She left in time, as did some of her siblings, but her mother and the rest of her family died in the Holocaust. They certainly never considered themselves Lithuanians. She sometimes called herself a Litvak, but the way she and others like her used the word, it meant a Lithuanian Jew, as distinguished from Jews from elsewhere, not a Lithuanian.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)It's like when someone says Israel is not a religious nation.... but you can't escape that promise their god made to Abraham.... so at it roots it's religious.
You'd think since Hitler used being Jewish as some kind of non-religious category ...a "race"... that Jews would reject it being anything but a religion with traditions.
I don't understand it either.
But anti-semitism is just weird. I got called a "stupid Jew!" and a "kike" in Jr High all the time. I guess because I have a big nose....I dunno. I'm not Jewish at all. We are Scotts.... and supposedly Presbyterians. I pointed this out in astonishment to the bullies and they said "You don't have to lie about it." Wait...what?
Weird.
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)(Well, had, back when I had hair.)
Schoolmates would insist I must be at least partly Irish, because apparently those are the only people in the world with red hair.
progressoid
(50,747 posts)https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://repub.eur.nl/pub/12890/Dick%2520Houtman%2520_%2520Religie%2520%26%2520Samenleving%25202008.pdf&prev=search
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)I think he's being silly.
progressoid
(50,747 posts)I know quite a few people who practice none of the actual tenets of Christianity - even losely defined - yet would check the box next to Christian on a questionnaire.
Go figure.
Rainforestgoddess
(436 posts)Yet I love (the secular aspects) of christmas. I know some atheists reject all religious traditions but I don't see a purpose in that. Of course, there's very little "christian" in yule logs, trees, gifts and a feast.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)edhopper
(34,802 posts)In Nazi Germany, I would be considered a Jew, (as my family was) no matter my religious beliefs. There is a lot of jewish heritage that is part of me. I don't run away from it.
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)Because it no longer applies to me.
edhopper
(34,802 posts)My upbringing is still part of me.
Do you have a problem with other atheist who still consider themselves Jews?
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)That's why I wrote the book. I think they should ask themselves what they mean by calling themselves Jews. What distinguishes them from an atheist who does not have Jewish ancestry?
edhopper
(34,802 posts)DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)edhopper
(34,802 posts)you are obviously of superior intellect and actualization and all need to follow exactly what you think about their heritage.
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)I've heard it for decades from many different people.
I discuss at great length in the book why I think it's silly. The book, and some of the essays on my Web site, are my observations on these matters, the result of many decades of observation and thought. Nowhere have I issued any orders. I have instead expressed my opinion, strongly in many cases. Do you always condemn people for doing all of the above, or only in this case?
edhopper
(34,802 posts)and all others are silly. You did not simply express your opinion, it is you sir, who condemned. it is you who said you have a problems with people who differ.
If you ahve ever been the victim of antisemitism, you would know your beliefs are immaterial to those who hate you.
But keep up the "I am right, all others are wrong' stand. It will serve you well.
Bye, I have nothing left to add.
DavidDvorkin
(19,890 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Dismissing your opinion as "silly" tells you eveything you need to know about their "interest" in other's opinions.
I'm sure their book is fascinating.
edhopper
(34,802 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And I probably would've ended up with a hidden post.