and many of them, especially here on DU, are well acquainted with the scientific method and some use it in their daily work.

All I ever say is that I don't believe a word of it and that's not going to change. It's only with fellow atheists that I really let fly and show just how unsympathetic a view of religion I have.

As the OP shows, it is all a waste of time anyways. The only arguments I will get involved in are those that might affect me or anyone else who doesn't believe...like separation of church and state issues, or the "we are a Christian nation" bull.

I certainly am not interested in someone else's ideas on "how to be an Atheist". I'm not a soccer fan, I don't need a list of rules on how not to be a soccer fan.


You are correct in that Theological arguments are a waste of time, because they invariably end up operating on the "I'm rubber, you're glue" logic level.

#5: It isn't about convincing the person you're arguing with. It's about swaying undecided people that may be listening. "Can you prove any of the supernatural things you're claiming exist?" being answered with "NO! YOU JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE! STOP ASKING QUESTIONS!" over and over is one of the things that convinced me I wanted no part of religion.

#4 and #3 are going to be combined: I don't care what anyone's belief system is, or what barbarism or silliness it contains. BUT when they tell me I can't make out with another dude because their religion forbids it, you're goddamned right I'm going to point out all the silly stuff and ask them why they're not beating kids heads in with rocks. If you want your beliefs to not be questioned, stop making them into laws or demand other people follow them. You cannot have it both ways. Either it's a marvelous moral code we all have to follow, or it's totally a private belief that everyone should stop bothering you about. Religious people need to fucking pick one already.

#2: Wait, so 5, 4, and 3 are "Don't criticize religious people for what they believe." and now #2 is "Don't criticize religious people for what they DO in the name of their religion either." This whole list could've been shortened to "Don't criticize religious people at all, ever."

#1: This one is just silly. Almost no one actually does that, and when they do more often than not it's because a religious person is demanding their religion be catered to.

Especially here on DU, it's about what others see when they read the exchange. When they post those convoluted theo-"logical" explanations, deflect, defend, or run away after dropping some turd like "I'll pray for you" , it's not that you've shown them something they didn't already know, you're showing other readers just what hypocrites, cowards, or shysters they really are. It would really be funny it it weren't so damn pathetic of them.

No, not everyone is a "fundamentalist"... And fundamentalists aren't the only people to believe stupid, crazy, or regressive shit. So there's that.

And yes, religion is a facet of culture, but the influence isn't unidirectional. So let's stop pretending it is.

I read cracked, but, not surprisingly, I don't take it as the last word.

when somebody claims to be superior to me because they believe fairy tales are true.

When those that have allowed the God-shaped hole in the mind to close are seen to be happy and funny and smart and free, it's encouraging to others.

Followers of faith, furtive and fearful at first, frequently flower into firm future friends.

That's when you destroy them utterly! (Just kidding)

are incredibly weak in these debates. We're not the OJ jury.

Shit, ed, we've been trying to get them to define the god they believe in since day 1, and STILL can't get a single one of them to start with this.

Oh please.

We, human beings, we assign meanings and purposes to things. They are concepts our brains created.... because of evolution.... so we could survive.

For instance....9/11 has much meaning to us because all those innocent people died. And it SHOULD. But, y'know the pigeons in NYC didn't care about any of it. Rats didn't. Even little infants, like one year old or less, didn't care about it...until later when their minds had created a concept of "meaning".

"Purpose" is even more removed. We assign purpose to things. The dog's bowl has a purpose to a human, and the dog might even look in it for his food. But that's because YOU assigned that purpose to the bowl. The dog expects food there because that is where YOU usually put it. The dog doesn't care about his bowl, he'll eat the food if you throw it on the floor. He know nothing about his bowl or even what a bowl is, except that YOU usually feed him there.

"Life MUST have a purpose!" No it doesn't. It's what happens because of chemistry.

"Why do you get up in the morning then?" Because I like sunny days, Bach, my friends and their society, and a host of other things I can experience before oblivion. I certainly am not spending my time worrying about some nonexistent "afterlife".

reading Everybody is Wrong About God, by James A. Lindsay. My Secular Humanist Book club is doing this book this month, and while I read lots of this stuff I found it a breath of fresh air and a little shocking, too, in that his contention is that we shouldn't have any more philosophical arguments about "God." (He always uses scare quotes.) He says the argument was won a long time ago. That we give credence to superstition and myth when we even involve ourselves in philosophical/theological debates about "God." (Read: the Easter Bunny, Big Foot, Satan, etc., etc.) He says we shouldn't even "do" atheism anymore because it only exists in relationship to theism, which is bunk. Pretty liberating actually.

BUT...it does have an impact on those on the fence or those questioning the old dogmas.

But I can see their kids listening.

It counts whenever someone hears about another doubter. People need the time with the unindoctrinated to believe their own inner doubt.

It's never a waste of time to tell a fundie he/she's wrong. They're followers, after all. If they hear from enough atheists, they'll follow us, too.

The religion may be the excuse or the selling-point for an otherwise political or economic campaign, but it nevertheless serves in important purpose: Hatred of the other.

Religion makes hatred of the other noble, sacred, and patriotic.
Religion makes evil acts seem holy.
Religion acts as a wedge to manage political assets.
Religion excuses selfishness, laziness and irresponsibility.
Religion makes people blind, uncaring and stupid.
Religion makes people ignore their own capacity for knowledge, memory, and critical thinking.
Religion makes the afterlife count more than the people who are on the planet, now.

A true believer wouldn't bother at all.

to a well known and obvious satire website?

Most of Cracked's content is fact-based list-articles with actual research, where they desperately shoehorn in some bad jokes to keep it light.

Very few of Cracked's articles are pure comedy... and they suck. These authors are too self-absorbed and just not funny.

Also, very few of Cracked's articles are satire.



Cracked is also making comedy-videos... and they used to be really, really good. Nowadays good ones have become rare.

This is why you deny the SUPERNATURAL.... not just gods

No ghosts, vampires, pixies, and of course gods.... because if it exists in this universe, it is natural. Even Dark Matter & Dark Energy, which we can't see and don't know what it is, but we know is there, because we can see its effects on things we CAN see.... even that is not "supernatural".

The only way for anything to exist in this universe is:

1) the laws of physics (whatever they are) allow for it

and

2) the circumstances (no matter how improbable) have come together for the laws of physics to allow it to be.