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Heddi

(18,312 posts)
Tue Mar 14, 2017, 07:32 PM Mar 2017

A question (thought) about sacrifice

Per Wikipedia re: Lent:

Lent (Latin: Quadragesima: Fortieth) is a solemn religious observance in the Christian liturgical calendar that begins on Ash Wednesday and ends approximately six weeks later, before Easter Sunday. The purpose of Lent is the preparation of the believer through prayer, doing penance, mortifying the flesh, repentance of sins, almsgiving, and self-denial.[1] This event is observed in the Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Methodist, and Roman Catholic Churches.[2][3][4] Some Anabaptist and evangelical churches also observe the Lenten season.[5][6] Its institutional purpose is heightened in the annual commemoration of Holy Week, marking the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, which recalls the tradition and events of the New Testament beginning on Palm Sunday, further climaxing on Jesus' crucifixion on Good Friday, which ultimately culminates in the joyful celebration on Easter Sunday of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In Lent, many Christians commit to fasting, as well as "giving up" certain luxuries in order to "replicate the sacrifice of Jesus Christ’s journey into the desert for 40 days."[7] Many Christians also add a Lenten spiritual discipline, such as reading a daily devotional or praying through a Lenten calendar, to draw themselves near to God.[8][9] The Stations of the Cross, a devotional commemoration of Christ's carrying the Cross and of his execution, are often observed. Many Roman Catholic and some Protestant churches remove flowers from their altars, while crucifixes, religious statues, and other elaborate religious symbols are often veiled in violet fabrics in solemn observance of the event. Throughout Christendom, some adherents mark the season with the traditional abstention from the consumption of meat, most notably among Roman Catholics.[10]

Lent is traditionally described as lasting for forty days, in commemoration of the forty days Jesus spent fasting in the desert, according to the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, before beginning his public ministry, during which he endured temptation by Satan.[11][12]
----

So Lent is a 40 day giving up of things, a sacrifice akin to the sacrifice Jesus made as he wandered the desert for 40 days, resisting temptation and wrasslin' with the devil.

I have known people, my father in law amongst them, who give up things for Lent that aren't really a sacrifice to give up. He typically gives up Liver and Onions for Lent -- a meal that he eats, at most, once an eon. Or he'll give up using a caddy during golf (something he typically does anyways because he's cheap and doesn't want to pay for one or tip the poor schmuck who schleps around his golf bag all day).

So not really a sacrifice, but a giving up of something. To me, that kind of defeats the purpose of a sacrifice -- kind of like people who "boycott" a product or store that they'd never purchase or shop at to begin with. "I'm boycotting Trader Joes," says someone who lives in a state with no TJ's and whose closest TJ is a 3 day drive away.

Anyways.

So Lent -- sacrifice -- giving up something that has meaning for 40 days.

No meat on Fridays (except for Fish because fish is apparently....a vegetable?).

Well.....except for this friday which is St. Patricks' Day...and meat is okay then because hey! It's just ONE DAY of a 40-day pennance. And I mean you're BOUND to go to hell if you don't eat Meat on St. Patrick's Day, right? Because having Meat on the day before or the day after St P's day is just....amoral.

I don't know -- just musing on the twisty bendy rules that are supposed to show true oneness with God, to understand Jesus' struggle, to make time to remove the things that give you pleasure so you can focus on the real meaning of things....well, until you're inconvenienced. Then hey! Who cares if I break my fast or eat meat or not really give up anything that has any purpose or meaning in my life.

Just another in a litany (hehe) of cafeteria, picking and choosing of holy rites and rituals. Don't eat meat on Friday because SIN (unless it's st patty's and omg corned beef wooo). Fast for 40 days (well not really a fast more of a giving up but not erally giving up because hey! I don't use a caddy anyways!)

But damn it, don't let women have BC Pills or abortion or end of life decisions -- those are VERY IMPORTANT THINGS THAT MATTER more than meat and sacrifice and penance and deep thoughts. Those rules are flexible (because they're for Catholics). The other rules...nuh uh. Those rules are for YOU and NO EXCEPTIONS, SINNERS

For the pending jury that will be called b/c of the alert I will get: Please note this is posted in the atheist and agnostic group, where our group purpose statement is " A place where atheists and agnostics can engage in frank discussions about the effects of religion on politics, free of debate about the existence of a deity or deities."

thank you.

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A question (thought) about sacrifice (Original Post) Heddi Mar 2017 OP
Is there a question or something to comment on in here? rurallib Mar 2017 #1
Thanks for sharing Lordquinton Mar 2017 #2
If you come from a religious family... Jim Lane Mar 2017 #10
Except for instagram pics of steak on fridays Lordquinton Mar 2017 #11
I gave up canned beets and nobody believed me Kolesar Mar 2017 #3
Haha trotsky Mar 2017 #5
It's a bunch of people pretending to be uber-pious... trotsky Mar 2017 #4
I really miss corned beef, but I can make a reuben sandwich with a garden burger Kolesar Mar 2017 #6
BTW, what is shellfish? Kolesar Mar 2017 #7
I know shrimp are counted... trotsky Mar 2017 #9
Both. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #12
note to self - don't post after drinking mudslides : Heddi Mar 2017 #8

rurallib

(63,204 posts)
1. Is there a question or something to comment on in here?
Tue Mar 14, 2017, 08:26 PM
Mar 2017

I will take a stab at what I think you are asking -
if you were once one who practiced lenten sacrifices what did you do and how did it make you feel?

And yes I was raised a Catholic and my parents while pretty loosey-goosey with the rules liked to pretend we were pretty strict. So every year we would announce what we were giving up.

I usually gave up candy or pop. My father would buy us each 2-12ounce Pepsis per day (this was the 50s) so when I saved those for 40 days, I had quite a little stash. BUT! Sundays were a free day so we could have whatever we gave up. So it really wasn't all that hard.

When I was pre-teen, I just thought I was doing what was expected. In my teens I really got to questioning what sense such seemingly silly practices made, especially when the rest of the year everything was wide open. And what was with the Sunday exemption, anyway?

My dad would give up hard liquor which simply meant he had to survive on just a lot of beer.

So it never exactly made sense. Plus no one in our church ever really told us why we gave stuff up for Lent, just that we did because Jesus was going to die. No tie in to the desert story or anything else.

So I went along to get along. Meant pretty much nothing.

As for the meat - back then meat was verboten on any Friday no matter what time of year. When I accidentally ate some meat on a Friday night on my break at my grocery store job at age 14 I was sure I would die and go to hell that very night. My neighbor and fellow catholic caught me eating it and reminded me it was Friday.

Well, I didn't die and go to hell. Woke up the next day quite confused. In a short space of time I had a glorious revelation - that it was just BS. The beginning of a life of skepticism on religion and much else.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
2. Thanks for sharing
Tue Mar 14, 2017, 09:45 PM
Mar 2017

Many Atheists come from a religious background, and have to contend with a religious family. Even if we have given up beliefs, they still affect our every day lives. Even money says god on it.

Likewise lent is some big show that is put on every year and all the christians make a show of how pius they are even if they give up some petty thing. And then comes the inevitable"what did you give up for lent?" Where everyone is offended by the response of "nothing, I'm an atheist"

The fact that meat is readily available on Fridays is testament to how much influence we have

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
10. If you come from a religious family...
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 11:26 PM
Mar 2017

make it known that, for Lent, you're giving up all contact with your relatives.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
3. I gave up canned beets and nobody believed me
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 08:04 AM
Mar 2017

Catechism said: "you give up one food", so I picked beets. Cheapass parents didn't give me money to buy candy so I didn't know what luxury or sacrifice were. I love canned beets: sugary, salty, vinegar taste, and a texture that makes for sensuous chewing. What I really love is beets in a pressure cooker. They cook quickly and preserve the flavor.

Love your stories, rurallib.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
5. Haha
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:04 AM
Mar 2017

I like beets too, loved them as a kid. Wasn't Catholic though so I got to eat them whenever they were served.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
4. It's a bunch of people pretending to be uber-pious...
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:03 AM
Mar 2017

but looking like complete jackholes in doing so.

"Hey, we're going to honor the suffering of our lord and savior whom we believe was brutally tortured to death... by temporarily denying ourselves one of the many luxuries we enjoy in our blissful first world lives."

And even then, not always holding to it. I.e., the allowance to eat corned beef because St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday.

Give me a fucking break. As if there wasn't already enough religious hypocrisy in the world.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
6. I really miss corned beef, but I can make a reuben sandwich with a garden burger
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:10 AM
Mar 2017

...sauerkraut, thousand island dressing on rye bread or kaiser roll.
I'm a bored vegetarian today.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
7. BTW, what is shellfish?
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:12 AM
Mar 2017

Is it clams and oysters with a shell, or is it crabs and crawdads?
None of these are fish. Is this some kind of problem with translation?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
9. I know shrimp are counted...
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 01:38 PM
Mar 2017

so I would imagine it covers al crustaceans.

But crustaceans are basically insects, and we eat tiny insects all the time without knowing it.

Why it's almost as if a bunch of scientifically illiterate, superstitious nomads made all of it up themselves! Is that even possible?!?

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
12. Both.
Mon Mar 20, 2017, 10:52 AM
Mar 2017

Shellfish is any shelled creature living under the water. This includes both molluscs and arthropods.

No, neither of these creatures are fish. But since when has scientific accuracy mattered to the religious? According to the Catholic Church, capybara (giant musk rat) and alligator are fish (because they spend, like, a lot time in water) and can be consumed on Friday without concern that a petulant capricious god will damn you to eternity in the furnace.

Heddi

(18,312 posts)
8. note to self - don't post after drinking mudslides :
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:28 AM
Mar 2017

TL;DR version -

what is the point of a sacrifice if you're not sacrificing anything? How can you be considered to be doing something that is supposed to be a testament to God when you're doing less than phoning it in?

No one will die if they don't eat Corned beef on St Paty's day. No one is going to have a coronary if they give up something TRUELY meaningful for 40 days.

But they don't. They half-ass it and claim to be SO MORALLY SUPERIOR that they have the right, vis-a-vis their special relationship with God, to determine so many things that affect the lives of BILLIONS of people who don't follow their beliefs (see: abortion, reproductive, LGBT, end of life, tax, etc issues)

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