Religion didn't do me much harm that I can remember..... R.C..... but somehow, it didn't take. The "Limbo, Hell, Mortal Sin, Venial Sin stuff just kind'a washed over me. I didn't give it more than 2 seconds of thought after Catechism class was over.

leave and never go back home?

There’s an old saying that actually is quite true. Wherever you find four Baptist, will find a fifth

While I understand that religion is a balm for many people, I also believe that many of the world’s atrocities are committed in the name of religion by its most extremist adherents. We are seeing that now with the religious extremists here who want to outlaw abortion for any reason, including saving a woman’s life.

We are seeing it in Iran with an extremist regime that denies rights for women simply because men want to. We see it in Saudi Arabia where women are jailed for speaking out. We see it in India where both caste and religion work against poorer women, who are regularly raped and then murdered.

I became anti-religion starting in my teenage years as I listened to Sunday sermons that rarely said anything about God’s love but regularly exhorted the attendees about the evils of card playing, dancing, or doing anything much but tithing every penny possible and being in church for every service (so as to tithe more). I am even more anti-religion today because I do not see it as a solution to human ills but rather as a primary cause of those ills. So welcome to the group, and best luck on your continued journey.

The damage is deep and wide.

But it also started me questioning things.

By the time I got to college, I started invading male territory - without even realizing it. Immediately noticed the big poster in the dorm cafeteria about the student radio station. Got curious, went and checked it out, and fell in head first. THIS was COOL!!! And I discovered I was pretty good at it. And there were very few girls interested in it or involved in it, so I was kinda “unique.”

By the time I got to junior year, I was the only girl with a “prime time shift” - the highly-coveted 9pm-midnight weeknight slot. Mine was Wednesday night, and I took requests. And it turned out to be a party show every week. Even within the station staff! Dear God in Heaven, that was FUN!

There developed a weekly routine: a couple of the guys hopped in their VW bug at about 6:30pm and headed up the freeway to Tommy’s in downtown L.A. for their renowned chili burgers. They’d order a couple dozen chili burgers and drive back down to campus and would arrive just as my show went on. It was really cool, looking through the studio window to the outer office and see it full of people, chowing down and partying, and I was providing the music! And they’d poke their heads into the studio and make requests! And by Jove I played ‘em, whether it came over phone calls from the dorms, elsewhere on campus, the local community, or even just the outer office. “Smoke on the Water” and “Stairway to Heaven” and more, every week! Some of the most fun I EVER had in my whole life with my clothes still on!

That’s about the time I started wondering if maybe this was something I could do to make a living. And I did. And - um - yes, with my clothes still on. Those sure were the days! SWEET GOD that was fun!!!!!

but I took the DJ class and did the early mornings, 3-7, weekdays. Loved it. I've never forgotten a guy came in telling me never to play Jimmy Hendrix at the time I played it. Then another guy came in and said he was just blown away that I had a set with Carley Simon and Jimmy Hendrix. The fade out to the one song was very like the intro to the other. I also got to review the Looking Glass LP when it came out and I said Brandy had the potential to be a hit if it got airplay.

Sounds like a great time!

and really I have to lean towards more harm

I am talking all kinds of religion, not simply the Evangelical Christian model.

Humans had to find some way to make moral rules that allowed them to live together and not destroy one another.

IF you read the things Jesus said to the Pharisees (leaders of the Jewish faith at the time) you will find that HE was not a huge fan of the phony religious model either.

I look to the example of Christ and have not really been back to my Catholic roots since they told me I had to hate people in God's name or my Methodist roots after they put a former Baptist preacher in place of a really great Methodist minister I had a lot of respect for.

BUT I don't blame God for humans using religion to control the masses.

Christian faith is SUPPOSED to be about having a PERSONAL relationship with God and accepting forgiveness when we mess up and trying to do good in the world.

All the control and such is a hold over from when people were barely aware and living in constant fear. There are still things to fear, but we have been able to grow and change so we have more tools than religion to get the masses from point A to B.

12 years of catholic school. I got a good education, I will say that. But a far as the religion goes, it never took. Every Sunday all
I could think about was how do I get out of going to church. I HATED going to church. The older I got (I'm 71) the more I disliked
religion. I walked away from it (not that I ever belonged) when I got out of high school and went to college. Never looked back.
When I see all the problems caused by religion in the world and closer to home, in this country, I find I despise it more and more.

You can believe what you want but you have no right to impose your belief on others. I am happy that more and more young
people are turning away from organized religion, especially the Catholic Church.

Also firmly believe that churches should pay taxes like everyone else.

12 years of Catholic school. I tried so hard to stay, but in the end, I could not.
I formally left the church 10 years ago.
Never looked back.

I started in a Southern Babtist church scared as hell. As I got older, I told myself there has to be more to this shit than fire & brimstone. I tried different churches and finally ended up in a Gay MCC church that welcomes all. I am at peace with God knowing he is all knowing but most of all he is all loving.

I am sorry that you had that experience. I'll leave you with this, God loves you & peace be upon you.

Make it harder for them to become political centers of misinformation.

If a "church" can afford private jets and multi-million dollar facilities, THEY NEED TO PAY TAXES.

My wife and I give more money to people in need than we would ever give to organized religion.

Westboro Baptist and ilk should have been class-actioned out of existence long, long ago. I know I've worn out DU's pages with my horrible experience with them. I can't even call what they do any sort of "religion", that's a terrorist cell.
Far too many religious groups are falling into this terrorist approach again. Westboro managed to dull the luster of that hatred and misogyny with their torrid displays and ridiculous behavior on media.
Now the post-Trump Era has normalized cringeworthy, boisterous and divisive behavior in general to unprecedented levels. The once more cloistered inherent terrorism now comes with the G.Q.P. seal of approval.
The religious zealots never made much sense to me: it's the perfect con game. Submit to this diety in all these specified, highly codified rituals, that if you mess up the slightest detail of that subservience the diety will torture you forever. Oh, and give us money. We'll terrorize dollars right out of your wallet.

Christianity, I'm sure you'd have had a different experience.

but the real issue here was a father that was a controlling (and perhaps a bit unhinged?) tyrant. (no rational human being really believes that a 8-10 yr old is capable of, or should be, running a household. that's not 'religious' - that's off kilter.) Can I be so bold as to ask how the other kids came to regard him?

But your basic thesis is correct ... Life could have been much, much different ...

and the saying that "Love is blind." Never quite made it to the atheist/agnostic phase of belief, but if God is love and/or "If God so loved the world..." as Christians learned -- I came to a conclusion there's a vast difference between parental Duty and supportive godly Love. Love in human terms is truly a mixed message that was designed to interfere with good human behaviors because of that limbic system of ours, that "free will" part of our humanity--our emotional perceptions and expectations, our daydreams and our fantasies--leading to some of our behaviors, both for better and/or for worse.

There are many dysfunctional families due to religious beliefs leading, I believe, to mental illnesses of disturbed process and personality in which parents don't guide and support but certainly play out their god-like "duties" without love and with much judgement(s). I think their own childhood traumas and failures often foster continuous fear(s), fight or flight, projection(s), etc, as failures of their perceptions and expectations...Balancing what we did do in "that moment" and/or going forward after that type of upbringing with or without the forgiveness of love is damn hard work! In the end, all we can do is to live with ourselves in faith in our beliefs and love or give them up, so be careful what you, a human not a god, believe or don't, ask for/receive, and/or promise.

Books, movies, plays....the documentation is overwhelming on the psychic harm done by religion. Sure, some people "thrive" in it, despite the handcuffs that are a part of the package. Forcing people to behave by archaic "rules" is so unjust and cruel. As if this is the only way to raise children! The peer pressure from "church folk" can be intense and oppressive, but they are foisting unproven bullshit on others. All based on an imaginary god that everyone and his brother interprets in their own fucking way anyway. What a mess.

I read recently that the "full Bible" has been translated into over 700 languages. The New Testament has been translated into an additional 1,500 languages! I didn't know there were that many languages! Isn't this awesome? Spreading bullshit far and wide, to every corner of the world! Lay on the guilt, baby.

It makes me sad to hear stories like yours. So much suppression of children, so much squandered potential at the hands of so many religious parents, not to mention sexual assault rather rampant in more than one "branch" of this poisoned tree. I hope this didn't happen to you. After all, there is quite a lot of sex in the Bible. And again, sure, not every religious person is going to sexually assault someone, but I'll bet enlightened parents do it far less frequently than brainwashed believers.

I was pretty fortunate. My parents made me go to Sunday School only until I was 7. I hated it and it didn't make any sense. The only pressure I felt to attend Sunday morning services was that a quick drive to Dallas to watch the Cowboys play football in the Cotton Bowl was the lure to get me to go.

"Tell you what, son, we go to Sunday church services Sunday morning and we'll drive to Dallas to watch the Cowboys play afterward!"
"Ok, Daddy, let's go!" My big brother would tag along, but my 2 older sisters were not interested in football. Or religion.

That, and the annual gathering around the piano to sing some Christmas Carols (mostly religious garbage) was about as far as my parents pushed us 4 kids towards religion. I am forever grateful to them for their parenting.

Congratulations to you for shedding that stifling cocoon. So many are still lost in the haze.

I was forced to attend a Methodist church (a pretty liberal-minded one) when I was a young child, but my parents were never really right-wing authoritarians about it. Their emphasis in regard to morals was the "Golden Rule", and basic reciprocation. The kind of behavior that even pet animals seem to grasp easily enough, without any religious teaching! "You're nice to me, and now I'll be nice to you!"

My thinking is strongly evidence-based, so my current understanding of "God" (if I choose to believe in one at all) is that it's extremely honest and consistent -- e.g., gravity doesn't just suddenly cease to exist because of prayers!

Another conclusion is that death is the ultimate equalizer, despite the people obsessed with STATUS who like to entertain the idea that they're special and they'll experience some kind of paradise after-life whereas others suffer.

Many people demand special status in this world. It's not just ancient people with that affliction, like when they imagined Earth at the center of the Universe!

If people demand "meaning" for this existence, then it seems most logical to me that they'd seek to better understand such a "God" the way scientists do! Not just blindly obeying what some charlatan proclaims to be the truth. That's the way of manipulators, seeking more power and authority over others.

that there was no God. I am now a Buddhist, which is not a religion, but a practice of training the mind to not be at the effect of negative emotions and illogical beliefs. There is no creator God, no invisible sky god, who waves a magic wand to over-ride the laws of physics and make time flow backwards. There is no physical place of heaven and hell. There was no resurrection, because a 3 day old corpse does not get up and start walking around. All those beliefs are relics of prehistoric peoples before the discoveries of science. Imposing and enforcing religious beliefs and controlling people through fear and punishment is sick. Buddhism does not proselytize or try to convert people. Most Westerners come to Buddhism through their own open-minded curiosity and desire to learn something new.

Having said all of the above, I find value in the teachings of Jesus about practicing peace, forgiveness, generosity, patience, non-judgement, compassion, and loving kindness. To rise above greed, anger, and delusions and to practice ethical morality are the path to true happiness. All sentient beings want to be happy and to not suffer. The most important thing for each of is to just be a good person with a kind and loving heart.

I never declared myself a Buddhist, but I was very impressed with the original Buddha and his teachings! Among all of the popular "religions" around the world, it's one of the most agreeable for me!

I used to have a coworker/friend who was a Vietnamese-American, so I know that some modern Buddhists have broken away from the original. I visited the friend and his family several times in the past, and one time I asked him about the mostly-rotten orange they had placed on a mantle in their home. He said it was a tribute to Buddha, to gain his favor and to hopefully achieve a happy after-life! I told him that an after-life was not a concern of Buddha, from what I'd previously read (and also learned from a PBS documentary), and he replied that nobody would care about it unless there was an after-life!

If even animals know how to be kind and grateful to others, I don't see the necessity for most religions... which often make people "tribal" and cruel to others who don't share their particular egotistical beliefs.

Last edited Sat Oct 8, 2022, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I was beat, shamed and ridiculed by my folks, extended families and subculture for being an autistic, ADHD, depressed and queer. Basically, I was just different, and treated as though I refused to change. But as far as I knew at the time, there were no names for being those things (there actually were & some people grew up supported for them). I was conditioned - groomed, if you will - to always assume other people's emotional and practical needs were important but mine were not even worth considering because I was "different".

There's a whole sub-area of study in Christianity that is solidly part of the history, but here's a very brief summary: God is perfect. Humans are a step removed from God (but still above all other animals) and thus flawed. Being flawed is due to sin. So, the further from the Glory (perfection) of God one is, the more flawed they are and thus the more "touched" by sin. This is the basis for Christians historically shunning & expressing superiority over: non-white races, disabled people, LGBTQ people, non-Christians, etc. - all are seen as morally corrupt because they are different. And different = sin. As I said this is only a brief summary; I spent a few semesters engrossed in the concepts from their side in college. And the more I did, the less their values appealed to me.

And through it all, Christianity was used by the entire subculture to lay the groundwork for and reinforce these attitudes. I attended Christian schools off & on through college but it wasn't until I met another autistic & fell in love and finally left my folks' world that I began - just barely started - to see the larger world differently. And by that I mean I started out needing to learn that everything my parents did and said was not necessarily the pinnacle of perfection, that there were in fact other legitimate ways to see and live in the world.

People who've not lived through it don't realize that when you live in that world, there are no words for so many things, only intentional shaming, anger and withholding of love. And without words for the things outside of that subculture, only negative feelings, there's really no way to conceptualize the larger objective world any differently than what you've been taught.

This, by the way, is what Democrats are up against with Republicans in America. It's mass brainwashing (pun intended) and with so much in our society supportive of it (from "In God We Trust" to the First Amendment & Supreme Court granting religious opinions special status over others), it will be extremely difficult to change their thinking without a society-sized movement to convince them they are in fact not better than everyone else. Like Trump, that's their Achilles' Heel.

There's enough religion in the world to make us hate each other, but not enough to make us love each other.

Guilt and fear are necessary for religion to succeed. It sounds like you succumbed to enough of that guilt and fear for five lifetimes. Of course having a father who was a preacher really put you in the religious crucible.

As a child you could never escape it. It was there morning, noon, and night. Most people are only subjected to it at a fraction of your exposure to "god's love". As a female in a male dominated religion you had exponentially more guilt/fear and responsibility heaped upon you.

There's no quick fix for a childhood so damaged by something that is supposed to bring you so much love and joy. It brought you nothing but the direct opposite. I wish you nothing but the best in your future trying to forget your past.

It just added weight.

I should have reached out to mom's side to get help, but I couldn't. I was scared to dishonor my parents.

My teenage years where bad because I was starting to argue about some of the treatment.

weighing you down too! 😳

I never met a Baptist until I went to College. I grew up in white-bread protestant country in the north. We were Lutheran, but my paternal grandmother was a Jehovah's Witness. When we were small my sister and I stayed with her during the day during summer recess, because my Mom and Dad both worked. She forced us to go to her "bible studies" with her, but we raised such a ruckus she'd make us go outside and play. 😊 Thank you!

In our church I'd see the same people on Sundays singing hymns of praise, who I saw Saturday night out drinking and pawing at each others' wives (and vice-versa).

So at a young age I got to see the craziness of religion along with it's hypocrisy. Lessons well learned.

Sounds like you're dealing well with your childhood abuse, but you'll never know what could have been in a more normal environment. Don't dwell on things in the past. Don't let those thoughts linger. Forward, always look forward, and be the person you want to be, not what some person or myth wants you to be. Hold your head high and greet the world with the goodness you've created within yourself. That's the greatest feeling of all.

Take care my friend.

I can see why that would make you turn away from it all, and if your Dad's religion was the only one out there and all religions taught people to do those things, I wouldn't be a believer either.

However, I was raised with a completely different take on God, one that came from New Testament and the example of Jesus who said, "Suffer not the little ones." Jesus was a huge carpenter, when being a carpenter meant dragging the logs by hand. I could see him picking up someone who hurt a child and giving them, "the look" and one chance to take their head out of their rear.

He told his disciples in no uncertain terms that to hurt children was the biggest wrong that could be done.

His relationships with women in the Bible is one of seeing their worth, not confining them to proscribed roles.

At any rate, how you were treated was wrong. It was abusive.

How mankind abuses religion and their families is turning people away from God in huge numbers.

I hope whatever does bring you peace works for you. I wish your Dad had known a better way. Glad you got out.

only in 1893 it was common for little girls to take over Mom's jobs if Mom died, especially on farms.

Just know that you've got some gifts I never had when I grew up, I had to learn everything practical out of books. Julia Child on TV taught me how to cook, my mother hated the job and it showed.

Still, you and my grandmother had the additional burden of some patriarch thundering at you about honoring your father by stepping into the multiple roles of cook, laundress, parlor maid, nursemaid, and educator. It was a man's due to have all these roles filled by one woman or another or a little kid if women weren't available or had died on him.

Just know you've got gifts I didn't have when I grew up. I envy them but I hate how you got them. My grandmother was cynical as hell about the church and its thundering officials, something I loved about her, but that came at a price, too.