religion deserves no quarter

along with all the other mythologies. And they should carefully discuss all the bigotry and hatred and contradictions in each.

Government-run religions are not taught in public schools. It’s an important distinction. Educated people usually know the basics of most religious faiths, and are agnostic, atheist, or humbly believing in the same thing—a world of peaceful coexistence.

Uneducated people have no real world to compare their personal beliefs, and easily fall victim to religious/political/matchmaker scams. They just want to believe they’re a member of a group of fools like them.

They constitute educated people who've made an educated decision that compares what they study about the micro/macro of the universe as compatible with their spiritual beliefs.

Yes, religion is taught ABOUT in schools. They are ancient systems of thought and morality that the public's children should know about. And in a democracy, religious schools are separate and private, as religion is supposed to be in any democratic body politic.

I don't think I made myself clear. When students are studying Greek gods and roman gods and Norse gods they should also learn about abrahamic gods at that same time and in that same context. Mythology.

So many schools even call off for religious holidays especially in northern Virginia. It’s insane and not necessary. I’m sure it’s the same all over the country.

"You can't criticize my religion" really pisses me off. Of all the tings in the world that NEED criticizing, religion is tops. That whole tread in GD is just insane

when anyone criticizes their religion. The world has 10,000 religions. Lots to criticize.

What's insane in GD is to personalize others' Democratic Party politics because of their membership in a religion.

GD holds first and foremost that church/religion and state are separate.
All believers in GD agree that church/religion and state remain separate, as does their believer president.

To imply otherwise is to undermine Democrats and the party.

that most religious people vote for Republicans. Apparently they thought it was only evangelicals.

We have kowtowed to these groups for too long. All over the world, religion is used to get votes for the right wing. Isn't it time we stopped helping them by playing along?

I frequently fail. Being rude here is hazardous .

Also the sorry was sarcastic.

Oftentimes, the method of religion is more important the the God of religion.

Perhaps because they're well aware their views won't hold up to anything approaching rigorous inquiry?

4,000 religions on the planet, most categorized into 5 major groups.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualizing-religions-worldwide/#:~:text=According%20to%20some%20estimates%2C%20there,Buddhism%2C%20Hinduism%2C%20and%20Judaism.

Around here, it seems that the Christian group gets most criticized, and as a group it's based on the writings of another group, Judaism.

When the Torah was created -- some 700 years before Christians' Jesus showed up -- that was the point at which theological scholars say "rational religion" was established. Why rational? Because the Torah was based on thousands of scrolls, the original manuscripts of law and order in society.

Today's common law and international law are based on the principles laid out in those ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls that were also the basis of the Abrahamic religions. In other words, today's laws are based on biblical principles.

Those biblical principles were thousands of years in development by some 40+ writers over millennia, across 3 continents. Atheists and agnostics should know that they stand as foundational to Western modern order.

The incomplete and/or mistaken views of religions' members might not hold up to rigorous inquiry, but their holy books, as historical ancient writings, have been THE most rigorously challenged of all books written by humanity.

There are recorded verifications of multiple eyewitness and expert testimonies, a standard of modern courts.
There are standards of direct and indirect evidence used in today's courts.
Not to mention geneological records...

Whole academic majors exist worldwide to study, scrutinize and prove/disprove ancient works. I went to undergrad and graduate schools, public and private, and took classes in the history of religion, philosophy of religion, theology, philosophy, etc., during which time I read/studied hundreds of original texts that stand as scholarship by smart people.

It's not as if one is stupid because one can't argue at those levels about what have now come to be beliefs.

Call them stupid rubes? You might as well call all of us the same for not being able to prove gravity exists.

It causes all sorts of agitated delusional behavior in a small subset of the religious. How small a subset sort of drives the effect this has on the rest of us. If it was an opiate it wouldn’t be so destructive.

It is a real world version of the ‘woke virus fantasy’ .

Opium was the only effective pain reliever in his day. Most injuries and illnesses did not have an effective treatment, the most one could do is alleviate the suffering with opium.

Marx meant opium not as the illegal addicting drug we think of it now, but as a pain reliever of last resort.

is killing us, literally.

I consider myself to be a religious person (Christian), and I believe that you are correct that my religious beliefs do not deserve any sort of special consideration or deference by anyone else.

As such, even though I still adhere to my own faith I greatly appreciate the morals, opinions, and insights of others who do not share my faith.

Again, thank you for the interesting discussion!

Tim

Seidel cites a Phil Zuckerman study:

The least religious countries

have the lowest rates of violent crime and homicide
are the best places to raise children and be a mother
have the lowest rates of corruption
have the lowest levels of intolerance against racial and ethnic minorities
score highest for women's rights and gender equality
have the greatest protection of political & civil liberties
are better at educating their youth in reading, math, and science
are the most peaceful
are the most prosperous
have the highest quality of life

There are similar findings in "We of Little Faith" by Kate Cohen.

All the studies that show an inverse relationship between religiosity and intelligence are telling us something.

The first time it happened three of us looked at each other with WTF expressions while everyone else had bowed heads. We learned when dinner was about to be served to go outside & how horrified would he have been to know we smoked a joint on his front porch step.

The current backlash is from years & years of this kind of down-your-throat behavior by Christians.

Bless us oh Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy bounty. Through Christ, our Lord. Amen

Nice and short. Never understood the Protestants with all their yammering for 10 minutes while the food gets cold. What the hell. Have a conversation at bedtime.

and they agree with you. My religious Jewish family (so few remain) were just happy to be in America and have the opportunity to practice their religion in peace and safety. They were never out to recruit anyone. My uncle used to say, I don't care if they hate me, I can walk from my home to the temple wearing my yarmulke and no one tries to kill me.

the current Christo-fascists want to kill us.

was meant to keep Religion out of government. The free exercise clause was to prevent government from oppressing any religion group. BUT, religion has no place in secular government.
And no religious document should be used to base a law or legal ruling.

Keep religion out of government and keep government out of religion. Remember, the founding fathers were rebelling against Great Britain, where the King was, (and still is), the head of the Anglican church, which is the state sanctioned religion. They didn't want the authorities telling them what to believe and whom to worship, any more than they wanted the Church dictating the laws they were to live under. I think they had it right, btw.

Keep religion out of government and keep government out of religion. Remember, the founding fathers were rebelling against Great Britain, where the King was, (and still is), the head of the Anglican church, which is the state sanctioned religion. They didn't want the authorities telling them what to believe and whom to worship, any more than they wanted the Church dictating the laws they were to live under. I think they had it right, btw.

I don't care what anybody's particular kink is, but I do mind them imposing their kinky ideas on me.

I have this radical idea that religion should be strictly prohibited from being mentioned in political campaigning at all, as it is irrelevant. It should also not ever be cited as a reason for a civil regulation or statute, if we truly want to maintain that we keep Church and State separate.

And if a person's "deeply-held religious belief" prohibits them from doing their job, whether it be to bake a cake, register a marriage, or facilitate an abortion, then that person should show some character and find a different job. "If you don't like your job, put the buck-buck-bucket down," as the song had it.

-- Mal

Love this idea. Just no mention of any religion at all in campaigns or any part of the government - there is no reason for it.

Wait, unless a cult starts kidnapping kids (again) or some heinous crap like that. That has have to be dealt with.

It irritates me greatly, as it is (or rather, should be) completely irrelevant to their suitability for office.

-- Mal

And the fact that here we are in the 21st century and the speaker of the house is turning political retreats into religious revivals should make the seriousness of this situation crystal clear for everyone, religious or not.

Not dogmatic sky fairy narratives.

..... scientific facts.

But do we even know who wrote the bible?

How much is fact, speculation, faith only, and finally fear?

And the jesus of the bible never even existed.

Whoever wrote the sermon on the mount was cool, but it wasn't this cat named jesus.

There was one sermon, but in one book it is 'on a mountain' and in another it is 'on a plain'. The discrepancy is managed by the professional religious bullshitters by claiming that despite both occurring early in the jesus timeline, and despite neither reference referring to the other, and despite the content being similar, they are different events.

Also there are multiple versions of the OT '10' commandments. The sacred books are just filled with contradictory horseshit.

Not a lot, but some.

Another really big, big lie.

Just to be super annoying I have to point that out every passover. As the Pesach Curmudgeon it is my duty. Horrible story. Entirely fictitious. The fiction part is actually its best feature, as otherwise it is a hideous account of a genocide.

To invest time, money and energy in what I perceive to be mythology is a tremendous waste of resources.

Science provides answers that don’t require supernatural powers. When scientists don’t know something, not only are they excited and motivated to figure it out, they state clearly, “I don’t know. Let’s see what’s going on.” Religions make up some magical answer. It’s really quite pathetic.

As I wrote, this is my opinion. Unlike too many proselytizers, I don’t try to influence other people’s thoughts.

Slavery is good economics for everyone, everyone can be filthy-rich without any help from society or relatives, capitalism (slavery feudalism) is the best economic system ever, rich or famous and powerful people are smart and good, there's only one good way to have sex, you must accept whatever sex you are assigned at birth, there is a real God(s), religion is moral and loving.

And on and on it goes.

I think the most intelligent people see through these lies and understand that they never were true. They were and are just used by people with power to stay in power. Religion and God are good tools for keeping the majority of citizens in check.

Religion promises another life where only good things happen. And oh by the way, you can't commit suicide to get to this other life. Otherwise most religions would be a death cult.

Religious dogma is full of nonsense and logical contradictions. It makes no sense and has no real evidence to support it. So, it becomes a protected, extra special group of bad ideas that you better not question. Because it has no leg to stand on it must be very carefully protected from questioning.

All those other lies a society will promote to keep the rich and powerful, rich and powerful are also nonsense, illogical and lack evidenced. But they are frequently brought out for discussion.

But religion is supposed to be this intimate personal thing that must be respected. If you dare question my religious dogma, you are questioning me personally. You are questioning my feelings. And only I get to question my feelings.

Anyway that's what I think is happening. So, go ahead and criticize any religion. It needs it and it makes for a better society.

... and encourages intolerance of outsiders.

There may be groups with progressive beliefs, but have nowhere near as visible or as powerful

There is no "true Christianity" - there is christianity as advocated by its most visible and politically powerful figures. That form of christianity emphasizes cruelty, punishment, intolerance, and absolute obedience .It is the same religion as present during the reign of Charlemagne, who ordered the massacre of Verden.

"True christianity" is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

When describing a crime, they say the victim was a "devout christian" implying that somehow makes the crime more heinous and the victim a greater loss.

My sentiments exactly. Sunday is just another day to me...

Original quote:
La religion rattache au ciel une idée d'égalité qui empêche le riche d'être massacré par le pauvre.

Translated to English:
Religion attaches to heaven an idea of equality which prevents the rich from being massacred by the poor.

— ‘be the vegan you would have wanted to meet before you became a vegan’.

I’m not a staunch atheist, and I’ve never been religious — but I try not to judge. Nonetheless— I’ve met the worst of religious authoritarians. The mullahs in downtown Dhahran who grabbed my 12 year old friend and dragged him into a building to roughly shave his head were the same to me as the various violent religious Americans I’ve met — absolutely absolutist, relatively insane, and cruel. The portion of the brain responsible for religious feelings has great biochemical power, and I feel badly for those who cannot escape or defray its complete hijacking of reason.

I’ve met perfectly lovely religious people — my grandmother for one. But I’m too familiar with the other side of the coin. Respect, certainly — always, until the shearing knives come out.

... the skeeziest weasel in the cave said to the biggest bully in the cave, "You be the government, and I'll be religion, and we'll have 'em by the short curlies 'til the end of time!"

Like the cult it is.

Especially the Roman Catholic sect. The crucifixion "art" displayed in most RCC churches is ... yikes. A lot of Catholic priests et al seem to get off on the sado-masochistic aspects of the mythology depicting suffering and death of the fictional magical character, Jesus.

Then all the horrors of those female workhouses came out..run by nuns...unpaid servitude for the crime if unwed pregnancy