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4th

(164 posts)
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:18 PM Nov 2024

Are you atheist or agnostic? Why not be both?

On the one hand, I take the philosophical position the absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence.
So I'm an atheist.

But while that evidence is sufficient for plausible inference it is not absolute proof.
So I'm an agnostic.

I fully admit I cannot prove that no god exists, but I can to a pretty good job of refutation for the flavors of almighty that believers actually believe in.

But if I need to pick a label, I'll say I'm an atheist.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Are you atheist or agnostic? Why not be both? (Original Post) 4th Nov 2024 OP
Democratic Secular Humanist, here. multigraincracker Nov 2024 #1
I have no control over the cards I'm dealt. multigraincracker Nov 2024 #4
Humans above Gods? 4th Nov 2024 #10
I put animals above humans defacto7 Nov 2024 #11
I know it is all a bunch of nonsense Skittles Nov 2024 #2
Twelve. The number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. Less if they're cherubs. If you say.... MMBeilis Nov 2024 #3
I dont have to say that's wrong. I have to just say "prove it". Eko Nov 2024 #13
I'd like to give evolution another billion years and see whatever might exist at that point dgauss Nov 2024 #5
I want to beleive but how can I beleive in doc03 Nov 2024 #6
I've decided to start calling myself an absurdist. Borogove Nov 2024 #7
What's the term for.... viva la Nov 2024 #8
An apathist? sorcrow Nov 2024 #21
That's great viva la Nov 2024 #22
I think the term is agnostic atheist anyway. defacto7 Nov 2024 #9
This follows my understanding of the terms wysimdnwyg Nov 2024 #12
Atheist is really the absence of belief in deities Eko Nov 2024 #14
But, but, but, someone ate my goshdarned cookies last year and spilled the milk too... wcmagumba Nov 2024 #15
They were good cookies Eko Nov 2024 #16
Spot-on. That's why I consider myself agnostic Martin Eden Nov 2024 #17
I'm an apatheist. TwilightZone Nov 2024 #18
Gnostic means knowledge Buzz cook Nov 2024 #19
Swear there ain't no Heaven. Pray there ain't no Hell. czarjak Nov 2024 #20
Matter and energy... GiqueCee Nov 2024 #23

MMBeilis

(416 posts)
3. Twelve. The number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. Less if they're cherubs. If you say....
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:30 PM
Nov 2024

.....that's wrong, I'll ask you to "prove it'. And you can try to prove a negative, without much success, just like the atheists.

Eko

(8,847 posts)
13. I dont have to say that's wrong. I have to just say "prove it".
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:24 PM
Nov 2024

The onus is on you to prove your statement otherwise its just as valid as me saying I have a unicorn in my back pocket.

dgauss

(1,232 posts)
5. I'd like to give evolution another billion years and see whatever might exist at that point
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:40 PM
Nov 2024

comes up with. I bet it would make our big questions seem pretty small, to understate it a bit...

doc03

(37,350 posts)
6. I want to beleive but how can I beleive in
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:41 PM
Nov 2024

a god when the people worshiping him are the worst sinners. I don't understand how there are people way smarter than me that beleive. It is like Trump, how can people claim to be Christians and support Trump, a man that is pure evil?

Borogove

(123 posts)
7. I've decided to start calling myself an absurdist.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:51 PM
Nov 2024

I think it best describes my view of the world, particularly after last Tuesday.

defacto7

(13,774 posts)
9. I think the term is agnostic atheist anyway.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:58 PM
Nov 2024

Hard atheism is illogical. I read a book on an unrelated subject written by a professor at Oxford who used the term "unknowable other" to fill the gap in the philosophical equation that forbids the use of an absolute for the existence or nonexistence of a deity. I just say I'm atheist. It's easier.

wysimdnwyg

(2,258 posts)
12. This follows my understanding of the terms
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:04 PM
Nov 2024

Atheist: someone who does not believe there is a “god”.
Agnostic: someone whose position is that we don’t, and likely cannot, know if there is a “god”

As only someone who has had specific, in-person, firsthand experience (despite what many, many people would claim, the number of people who fit this description is likely zero), would actually know, we’re ALL agnostic.

As an overly logical/rational person, I consider myself to be atheist. As someone intelligent enough to recognize that I cannot prove anything, I am also agnostic.

Eko

(8,847 posts)
14. Atheist is really the absence of belief in deities
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:29 PM
Nov 2024

I don't have to prove something doesn't exist to not believe in it. That is absurd. I dont have to prove that the tooth fairy doesn't exist, that Santa doesn't exist, that Bugs Bunny doesn't exist, that The Great Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, that Zeus doesn't exist. I don't have to do any of that and yet they are not real are they?

Martin Eden

(13,760 posts)
17. Spot-on. That's why I consider myself agnostic
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:15 PM
Nov 2024

My existential question has always been:

How is there anything? If our universe started with the Big Bang, where did all that mass and energy come from in the first place?

Humans do not have the perception and intellect to prove an answer to that question.

"God" has always been the easy answer, and religions provide reassurance of eternal life to mortals.

Of one thing I am fairly certain:
Man created God in man's own image. In a universe this vast, we nevertheless anthropomorphize.

The disdain various organized reliigions have earned shed no light on the existential question.

TwilightZone

(28,835 posts)
18. I'm an apatheist.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:22 PM
Nov 2024

I'm indifferent to whether or not a god or gods exist or don't exist.

To take it a little further, I don't care if there's a god or not, and religion doesn't impact my life in any way (unless I have to attend a wedding/funeral/etc., then I don't have much choice - I'm still indifferent to the religious aspects as long as they're not overt), but I also don't really care if anyone else believes there is, as long as they don't try to force those opinions on me or others, and those opinions do not impact the lives of others.

Some people need to believe in something, for various reasons, which is fine as long as that's as far as it goes. Of course, that's almost never how far it goes.

Buzz cook

(2,669 posts)
19. Gnostic means knowledge
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:23 PM
Nov 2024

Agnostic means without or lacking knowledge.
You can be an agnostic theist or atheist. It just means you don't know for sure.

There are some gnostic atheists and theist. They depend on arguments for their proof.
Some hard atheists have a persuasive case such as Aron Ra. But it depends on their own definition of a god.
Notice how gnostic and knowledge both start with a silent letter? What's up with that?

czarjak

(12,632 posts)
20. Swear there ain't no Heaven. Pray there ain't no Hell.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:37 AM
Nov 2024

You'll never know by living. Only your dying will tell. DCT

GiqueCee

(1,661 posts)
23. Matter and energy...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:00 PM
Nov 2024

... is, was, and always will be. I'll take science over imaginary Sky Daddies every time.

"Religion is the greatest fomenter of hatred and intolerance in the history of humanity." This, or something like it, has been attributed to H.L. Mencken. By all accounts, he was not a very nice person, but he sure was right about this.

I have long maintained that the sleaziest weasel in the cave said to the biggest bully in the cave, "You be government, and I'll be religion, and we'll have 'em by the short curlies for the next fifty thousand years!" We're seeing, in real time, how that's turned out.

For the record, I taught Sunday School 60 years ago, until I was told that I was not allowed to ask questions. That was the deal breaker.

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