Skepticism, Science & Pseudoscience

William Seger

(11,036 posts) Thu Mar 6, 2014, 06:18 PM Mar 2014

California farmers hire dowsers to find water

ST. HELENA, Calif. — With California in the grips of drought, farmers throughout the state are using a mysterious and some say foolhardy tool for locating underground water: dowsers, or water witches.

Practitioners of dowsing use rudimentary tools — usually copper sticks or wooden “divining rods” that resemble large wishbones — and what they describe as a natural energy to find water or minerals underground.

While both state and federal water scientists disapprove of dowsing, California “witchers” are busy as farmers seek to drill more groundwater wells because of the state’s record drought that persists despite recent rain.

The nation’s fourth-largest winemaker, Bronco Wine, says it uses dowsers on its 40,000 acres of California vineyards, and dozens of smaller farmers and homeowners looking for wells on their property also pay for dowsers. Nationwide, the American Society of Dowsers boasts dozens of local chapters, which meet annually at a conference.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/california-farmers-hire-dowsers-to-find-water/2014/03/02/950347f4-a262-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

14 replies

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California farmers hire dowsers to find water (Original Post) William Seger Mar 2014 OP

The title should be... Archae Mar 2014 #1

We, um Lordquinton Mar 2014 #2

My Dad and I found water on some land I'd bought with the polly7 Mar 2014 #3

The mechanism for dowsing has been pretty thoroughly debunked EvolveOrConvolve Mar 2014 #4

Well, science or not, it worked for us, as well as my grandmother! nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #5

You have confirmation bias EvolveOrConvolve Mar 2014 #6

The crowbar swayed 40 and 41 times for myself and my dad. polly7 Mar 2014 #7

Let's see here... Archae Mar 2014 #8

Whatever. polly7 Mar 2014 #9

If you come in the skeptics group, you should expect to find skepticism EvolveOrConvolve Mar 2014 #11

I know what happened, no, I'm not wrong. polly7 Mar 2014 #12

" It ended up being a deep well..." William Seger Mar 2014 #13

I suppose when you get desperate, even woo starts looking good TxDemChem Mar 2014 #10

I can change red lights with my mind edhopper Mar 2014 #14

Archae

(46,798 posts)

1. The title should be...

Reply to William Seger (Original post)

Thu Mar 6, 2014, 09:42 PM

Mar 2014

California Farmers Suckered Into Buying Woo.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)

2. We, um

Reply to William Seger (Original post)

Fri Mar 7, 2014, 12:25 PM

Mar 2014

We kinda know where the ground water is already... little science will tell you.

polly7

(20,582 posts)

3. My Dad and I found water on some land I'd bought with the

Reply to William Seger (Original post)

Fri Mar 7, 2014, 12:35 PM

Mar 2014

intention of building on. We used a crowbar that swayed up and down, also, simple willow twigs that crossed each other - both of us found it in the same spot on different days, having no idea where the other was. There had been a few tries in other places on that 1/4 section to drill for water but it hadn't worked out. It ended up being a deep well, but we found water. Many farmers setting up their yards used to get my grandma to dowse on their land, decades ago .... she was a bit of a legend for it here. Actually, I think most people can do it.

EvolveOrConvolve

(6,452 posts)

4. The mechanism for dowsing has been pretty thoroughly debunked

Reply to polly7 (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 11:36 AM

Mar 2014

http://www.skepdic.com/dowsing.html

Science does a far better job of showing us where ground water can be found.

In 1949, an experiment was conducted in Maine by the American Society for Psychical Research. Twenty-seven dowsers "failed completely to estimate either the depth or the amount of water to be found in a field free of surface clues to water, whereas a geologist and an engineer successfully predicted the depth at which water would be found in 16 sites in the same field.

...

Typical is what happened when James Randi tested some dowsers using a protocol they all agreed upon. If they could locate water in underground pipes at an 80% success rate they would get $10,000 (now the prize is over $1,000,000). All the dowsers failed the test, though each claimed to be highly successful in finding water using a variety of non-scientific instruments, including a pendulum. Says Randi, "the sad fact is that dowsers are no better at finding water than anyone else. Drill a well almost anywhere in an area where water is geologically possible, and you will find it."

polly7

(20,582 posts)

5. Well, science or not, it worked for us, as well as my grandmother! nt.

Reply to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 11:37 AM

Mar 2014

EvolveOrConvolve

(6,452 posts)

6. You have confirmation bias

Reply to polly7 (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 11:41 AM

Mar 2014

I'd bet my mortgage payment that if you tried dowsing in an area with little ground water, you'd not have the same results.

polly7

(20,582 posts)

7. The crowbar swayed 40 and 41 times for myself and my dad.

Reply to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 11:49 AM

Mar 2014

On different days.

We both found it in the same spot. On different days, using both a crowbar and willow twigs.

Farmers here still remember their parents and grandparents talking about having my grandmother help them find the spot to dig a well.

I don't care what you bet, I know what happened.

Archae

(46,798 posts)

8. Let's see here...

Reply to polly7 (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 12:18 PM

Mar 2014

Confirmation bias, appeal to tradition, and relating a story that occurred decades ago.

Yeah, all those trump any science that shows dowsing to be woo!

polly7

(20,582 posts)

9. Whatever.

Reply to Archae (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 12:21 PM

Mar 2014

We found water.

She found water.

It worked for us and has for many other people.

Go roll your eyes at someone who actually gives a fuck.

EvolveOrConvolve

(6,452 posts)

11. If you come in the skeptics group, you should expect to find skepticism

Reply to polly7 (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 03:42 PM

Mar 2014

You're not likely to find many credulous DUers in the skeptics group who are willing to accept anecdotal evidence of a phenomenon that isn't based on science. It doesn't mean we don't like you - we just know you're wrong.