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BootinUp

(49,020 posts)
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 09:39 AM Oct 2023

Is the Hygiene Hypothesis True?

Published October 25, 2022
By Caitlin Rivers
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health


Did Covid shutdowns stunt kids' immune systems?

The hygiene hypothesis is the idea that kids need to be exposed to germs in order to develop healthy immune systems. We know that many common viruses did not circulate as widely during the pandemic, thanks to social distancing, masking, and other COVID mitigation measures. Are there downsides to those missed infections?

In this Q&A, Caitlin Rivers speaks with Marsha Wills-Karp, PhD, MHS, professor and chair of Environmental Health and Engineering, about the role of household microbiomes, birth, and vaccines in the development of kids’ immune systems—and whether early exposure really is the best medicine.

This Q&A is adapted from Rivers’ Substack blog, Force of Infection.

I THINK THERE’S SOME CONCERN AMONG PARENTS WHO HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE HYGIENE HYPOTHESIS THAT THERE IS A DOWNSIDE TO ALL THOSE STUFFY NOSES THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN [DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC]. ARE THERE ANY UPSIDES TO VIRAL INFECTIONS? DO THEY HELP THE IMMUNE SYSTEM IN SOME MEANINGFUL WAY?

I don’t think so.

You mentioned the hygiene hypothesis, which was postulated back in the ‘80s. German scientists noticed that families with fewer children tended to have more allergic disease. This was interpreted [to mean] that allergic disease was linked to experiencing fewer infections. I have explored this idea in my research for a couple of decades now.

This phenomenon has helped us to understand the immune system, but our interpretation of it has grown and expanded—particularly with respect to viruses. Almost no virus is protective against allergic disease or other immune diseases. In fact, infections with viruses mostly either contribute to the development of those diseases or worsen them.

Continued https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-true

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is the Hygiene Hypothesis True? (Original Post) BootinUp Oct 2023 OP
I suspect that the main reason I am so very healthy PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2023 #1
Based on anectdotal evidence, and it makes sense, BootinUp Oct 2023 #2
While you are right that my personal experience is hardly PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2023 #6
As a former preschool teacher oregonjen Oct 2023 #3
Not shown in the excerpt above are BootinUp Oct 2023 #4
You got sick for the first two years, and after that maybe once a year. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2024 #8
Nose picking is thought to be bad for you muriel_volestrangler Mar 2024 #9
This is interesting. progressoid Oct 2023 #5
I always thought the hygiene theory was about exposure to non-infectious agents NickB79 Dec 2023 #7
This stuff is way outside my knowledge base -misanthroptimist May 2024 #10

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
1. I suspect that the main reason I am so very healthy
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 09:58 AM
Oct 2023

is that I got sick A LOT when I was a little kid. Third of six children. Spent the first seven years of my life in a low-income housing development with lots and lots of children, and we all played together. Very few childhood immunizations back then so I got all the then-usual childhood diseases. I was 5 when the polio vaccine came out. I got influenza several times growing up, including the Asian flu. I don't bother with the flu vaccine and the last time I think I got flu was about 50 years ago.

Our immune system is designed to be challenged by diseases, and when we recover we generally have immunity to that disease.

BootinUp

(49,020 posts)
2. Based on anectdotal evidence, and it makes sense,
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 10:01 AM
Oct 2023

but the reality is you don't have enough facts to arive at a reliable concusion.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
6. While you are right that my personal experience is hardly
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 03:19 AM
Dec 2023

something to assume any kind of general conclusion, it's still real. And valid.

For one thing, there's information out there that raising children with pets helps improve their immune systems. Also, overall, our immune system is designed to allow us to experience various diseases in our youth (the old childhood diseases of past eras) and then protect us from other diseases in adulthood. Typically, our immune system gets less effective as we get older. Sigh.

In my personal case, it seems as if all those illnesses I got in my youth and recovered from have really boosted my immune system. I last got flu around 1975 or so. I don't bother with a flu shot, although I might at some point change my mind about that. And I am not about to suggest anyone reading this should pass on a flu shot. I have gotten Covid shots and boosters, and unlike many I know who have done the same, I have not gotten Covid. It's possible that the fact I live alone and don't often see many other people is important here.

oregonjen

(3,489 posts)
3. As a former preschool teacher
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 10:04 AM
Oct 2023

I learned that outside time and having the kids play in the dirt was extremely beneficial. Also, kids picking their noses and eating it (yuck!) was good, too.

I got sick for the first two years of teaching, but after that, maybe once a year. Preschools are the ultimate germ factory!

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
8. You got sick for the first two years, and after that maybe once a year.
Fri Mar 29, 2024, 09:41 PM
Mar 2024

A textbook example of how our immune systems are intended to work.

muriel_volestrangler

(102,473 posts)
9. Nose picking is thought to be bad for you
Sun Mar 31, 2024, 01:50 PM
Mar 2024
Beta-amyloid is a protein believed to be a cause of Alzheimer's. According to the study published in Biomolecules, a peer-reviewed biological journal, the brain may produce this protein as a defense mechanism when pathogens are introduced via the nasal cavity.

“There is even some evidence to suggest that [beta-amyloid] may have antibacterial properties as a defense mechanism against microbial infections in the brain,” the report said.

So yes, dirty fingers going up the nose may trigger the brain to produce these dementia-causing proteins.

https://eu.indystar.com/story/news/2024/02/07/alzheimers-disease-neuroinflammation-nose-picking-dementia-memory-loss-hand-washing/72505363007/

Nose picking is associated with health risks such as spreading bacteria and viruses. It can also trigger nosebleeds and may cause damage to the delicate tissues inside the nose.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/nose-picking#summary

Eating your snot is introducing the stuff on your fingers, not in your nose (the latter is already in you).

progressoid

(50,743 posts)
5. This is interesting.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 11:01 PM
Oct 2023

Unfortunately, as we saw during the pandemic, most internet "experts" who gained their knowledge from a few youtube videos, don't understand that there is a difference between bacteria and viruses.

NickB79

(19,621 posts)
7. I always thought the hygiene theory was about exposure to non-infectious agents
Fri Dec 22, 2023, 08:06 PM
Dec 2023

Dirt, pollen, livestock, pets, etc.

Not viral infections.

-misanthroptimist

(1,193 posts)
10. This stuff is way outside my knowledge base
Sat May 4, 2024, 11:02 AM
May 2024

What I do know is that I haven't been sick a single day since (I think) 1998. As a kid I grew up in a filthy house in a filthy neighborhood near a landfill -which we actually played in and picked through. I have no idea if any of that is relevant to my seeming immunity to Earth diseases, but it seems like a possibility to someone, again, with absolutely no expertise and little knowledge of medical issues.

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