while this is nothing profound & perhaps even irrelevant,
since you are on the subject of the Four Noble Truths:

one thing that has always struck me about the great Teachers, is their ability to express their philosophy
(which is, of course, subsequently elaborated, extrapolated & perhaps over-analyzed, by their followers, into hundreds, if not thousands, of works)
in the briefest & simplest of terms:

in Pali (the closest extant language to The Buddha's original dialect, of Ardha-Maghadi),
the Buddhist Dhamma can be expressed in 4 words:

"Dukha Samudaya Nirodha Maga".

'Suffering; its Rising; its Cessation; & the Way to its Cessation'.


kind of similar - assuming the reality of his existence - to the way in which Jesus is supposed to have encapsulated Christianity, in two phrases:
"Love God above all things; and love thy neighbor as thyself".

...that the four noble truths cannot be taken out of a context of severe emptiness, and after that there is nothing that can be known or not-known. Getting to either end is the trouble, there is a certain value in shiftlessness in trying to choose to head down the way toward truth, otherwise it feels rushed, and not quite true; it is all very suspicious in a funny way.

For those lurking:

I enjoyed your perspective and insight on your experience.

It was a good idea to include a link with a definition.

That segues into the Three Characteristics that are applied to the understanding of the true nature of things: impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and no-self.

When sharing the Dharma, it becomes obvious that in modern times that skilful means inspires us to use caution so as to not discourage anyone. Thanks for bringing up emptiness and its relationship, however that word has negative connotations these days, in a general sense.

I would like to invite any lurkers or those new to Buddhism to consider their own reactions to the terminology used here, first and foremost. There are both obvious and subtle cultural biases that can impact understanding. If the terms generate questions about what all this has to do with liberation/freedom, then further inquiry is suggested.

While cultivating faith, (open to possibility) in the potentials of the cosmology and methodology of Buddhism is stressed, careful investigation and experimentation, (rather than belief) are the essential tools utilized throughout practice. Conceptual knowledge is not the goal, but it is an important vehicle to wisdom and realization.

I agree that all of these thoughts have subtle cultural biases. I think it is always important to remember than when we speak of emptiness we aren't speaking of nihilism but rather as you note: impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and no-self. This is not to be taken as something to be sad about, but rather as a terminology to describe a conception of the very essence of matter, that life itself, that the world is not to be construed as being an end in of itself, but rather a "vehicle to wisdom and realization." The cultivation of this faith is not to be but rather

that it is not something to be sad about. In fact, once you see a little into the implications, it is actually a source for greater happiness prior to realizing equanimity and so forth.

So may wonder why that would be. Well, there is a natural state of joy and happiness within that I personally would equate with the natural functioning of even our nervous system when it is not encumbered by the effects of wrong views and agitated states of craving and such.

We tend believe that the only happiness we can experience is based on external experiences and acquisitions. Well, we can have that kind of happiness and joy, but it is not the only kind and, after all, all of our states are internal. So, I guess you could call it feeling good for no reason at all.

I've seen a way to refer to suffering/unsatisfactoriness that I think is very appropriate for Westerners as an introduction as it does not require as much of a connecting of the dots. That is, expectations. If you refer to that characteristic that way, it makes perfect sense as a cause of our mental suffering. I won't go into it fully here, but consider just how much the degree and kind of expectations, (reasonable and unreasonable) impact our happiness and experiences. Even though we are expected to have expectations, they are worthy of inquiry. Now, just to illustrate, if you had, (ideally) no expectations of any situation or outcome and things were totally accepted, initially, just as they are, what would that be like?

Skillful means comes with the caution that one is careful to never misrepresent the Buddha, and my aim is to abide by that as much as possible, so any critiques or corrections to my understanding are always welcome.

...with your explanatory model - it is all about expectations, although I would state that having "no expectations of any situation or outcome" is likewise not to be taken as a negative thing, but rather as humility. A presumption that one somehow knows the pedagogy with certainty and can represent with perfection for others is not consistent with the Dharma. Suffering is not a natural condition, it is an affliction from which to be liberated. The role of happiness in that is innate, but only finds its meaningful realization within the community. The question is within what context.

just a minor clarification of terms - lesser vehicle is termed "Hinayana". Hina = lesser, thinner, smaller, etc.. Maha = greater, larger, etc.. Yana, of course ='vehicle, conveyance, etc.. "Theravadha", means "Doctrine of the (Buddhist) Elders"; a term coined, i believe, by the Theravadhins of the time of the divergence, to counter what may have been deemed as a bit of a put-down. "Thera" is also a term used for Monks. "Elders" is used in this context - in the sense of "religious elders".

While a committed follower of Theravadha doctrine, i don't believe there are major differences between the established schools, to quibble over. now, if there happens to be any distortion from the principles laid down by The Buddha - then, i think such a sect should name their religion something else; and not use the term Buddhism. on the other hand - after the passage of 2,500 odd years; as spoken verses for the first 300 years; and transcription after translation into alien languages, after that time - who can be absolutely certain of The Buddha's exact words; unless one realizes them from objective & direct personal experience.

A few words of The Buddha from the Suttas (paraphrased):
'O Bhikkhus, even this view (the Buddhist Dhamma), which is so pure and so clear, if you cling to it, if you fondle it, if you treasure it, if you are attached to it, then you do not understand that this teaching is similar to a raft - which is for crossing over, and not for getting hold of & carrying around with you (after you cross the river of sansara)'.

A slightly different version of 'the Raft simile', appears here:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanaponika/wheel048.html

...it's a mistake I make before. Most don't use Hinayana precisely because of the connotations you describe.

Thank you for the paraphrase!

and don't mind the terminology thing. happens to all of us. only reason i am a bit conversant with the terms, is because my native language - Sinhala - is derived from Pali & Sanskrit roots. many words, & the grammatical structure, are the same, or quite close.

with many spokes to the hub. To be lost, even in practice and study, and forget about and miss the goal is probably as useful as drinking beer and watching TV.

Since Supreme Ultimate Enlightenment can be pointed to with words as the goal, (amongst other terms like no-mind, Nirvana, Original Truth, True Nature, Eternal Original Buddha, etc.) and it is a worthy desire to have, trying to "get" or have it can also become a hindrance. One can consider it a goal where you are already standing between the goal posts, but you you can't see them.

Yes, after you have done some study, basic core concepts become more obvious concerning various approaches and schools.

What varies, even amongst teachers, is the skilful means which, to me, illustrates that we are not dealing with dogma but a structure that does not lose its essence in applied flexibility. The infusion of Buddhism in the West has provided quite a challenge in that respect and we play some part in that in the maturation and flowering.

Some are even able to adapt adeptly to the understood nature of the listener, initially, rather than requiring the listener to adapt in order to begin and progress with Dharma.

Vajrayana was not mentioned. I wonder if we should have also have a definition and a little information about it?

Their Vajrayana page:
http://dharmanet.org/lcvajrayana.htm

The DharmaNet Learning Center page,
with information on several Buddhist traditions:
http://dharmanet.org/lcvajrayana.htm

to echo your words, and the words of the Teachers:
"many paths to the mountaintop"

May all beings be peaceful and happy.
May all beings be free of expectation and desire.
May all beings be free of suffering.
May all beings be here now.

Much metta, abundant and overflowing, to you and all in our group.

May everyone awaken!

I just found you.

be gelling and the incense of Dharma is wafting in the wind. it is coming along just so.

Welcome!