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politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:19 PM Dec 2016

Steve Kornacki just reported on MSNBC that the PA vote count difference between Trump and Hillary

just dropped from approximately 70K in favor of Trump down to 46,978 before the recount even starts. Apparently there were some votes in Philadelphia that had not been counted and certified and those votes came in this morning resulting in the update. A reduction of approx 23,022 votes just as the recount is ramping up. Interesting that we hadn't heard about these outstanding votes previous and they just wiped out more than a third of Trumps lead in the state. Hmmmmm!!!!!!

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Steve Kornacki just reported on MSNBC that the PA vote count difference between Trump and Hillary (Original Post) politicaljunkie41910 Dec 2016 OP
Thanks for posting this developing story. CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2016 #1
We were awaiting these votes and expecting this result from Philidelphia. Coyotl Dec 2016 #53
Clinton Could Overtake Trump, And Media Won't Report It SoCalMusicLover Dec 2016 #2
if votes overturned the election do you really okieinpain Dec 2016 #4
Did That Happen In 2000? SoCalMusicLover Dec 2016 #6
+1 n/t okieinpain Dec 2016 #8
I thought the media consortium reported that... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #12
If I recall correctly the original release date of the book was September 11, 2001 or shortly rzemanfl Dec 2016 #26
correct (NT) The Wizard Dec 2016 #41
here is your answer (Bush won if only the 4 counties were recounted, Gore maybe would Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #30
There was a newspaper consortium that later did several of their own recounts NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #31
thats what I just linked to, the consortium recount Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #32
There was no provision in Florida's state constitution for a statewide recount Samantha Dec 2016 #59
thank you SO much for that cogent, detailed reply Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #61
I am glad to have been of help Samantha Dec 2016 #64
I too want to thank you for this excellent response. Pacifist Patriot Dec 2016 #62
You are very welcome (eom) Samantha Dec 2016 #65
I would want to see Hillary in Office. Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #25
Nothing is set until all the votes are certified. Right?... The Wielding Truth Dec 2016 #50
Here's the thing Bettie Dec 2016 #34
It was reported that Gore would've won under a couple scenarios but report released on 9-12-01 SharonAnn Dec 2016 #45
Coincidence SoCalMusicLover Dec 2016 #46
At this point I don't even care about a civil war. world wide wally Dec 2016 #7
lol. n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #9
+1, fuck em... 99.5% of them with the AR-15s would pee on themselves straight up if it came uponit7771 Dec 2016 #40
Civil war MFM008 Dec 2016 #14
As a veteran I learned a long time ago that some things are worth fighting for. politicaljunkie41910 Dec 2016 #16
You may have a good point. triron Dec 2016 #18
i was just saying. lol, but i would follow you into hell. n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #22
I dont think so. If it was determined that Hillary actually INdemo Dec 2016 #33
If she won, murielm99 Dec 2016 #37
Yes, no doubt... most of the Trumps Band Of Bigots are punks at best.. they would pee on themselves uponit7771 Dec 2016 #39
Stop asking such a stupid question. IF Hillary's EC votes topped Rumps, SHE WOULD BE PRESIDENT trueblue2007 Dec 2016 #43
my question is not actually stupid. okieinpain Dec 2016 #66
I say let the games begin. Just one question: just how would a civil war play out? YOHABLO Dec 2016 #47
Well Hell DK504 Dec 2016 #13
The uncounted and uncertified votes were counted and reported as of this morning. politicaljunkie41910 Dec 2016 #20
+1 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #38
The newspapers would-- remember, they ALL endorsed HRC ailsagirl Dec 2016 #44
im waiting to hear about someone committing okieinpain Dec 2016 #3
I just updated my earlier message.The vote count in PA reduced Trump's lead by 28,856 down to 46,978 politicaljunkie41910 Dec 2016 #5
This was reported here this morning red dog 1 Dec 2016 #10
It's About Time we Steal One from Them! I Don't Want to feel the Trump Burn! mitty14u2 Dec 2016 #11
We're not stealing anything. Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #27
trump trumped TeddyBear 1 Dec 2016 #15
WTF mitty14u2 Dec 2016 #21
Sounds like what a loser would say Generic Brad Dec 2016 #29
They do love their hyperbole. n/t Beartracks Dec 2016 #56
hmmm....this is a wtf.... dhill926 Dec 2016 #36
Maybe they are worried. andym Dec 2016 #51
when did the PA recount start? gejohnston Dec 2016 #17
hasn't triron Dec 2016 #19
thought so. gejohnston Dec 2016 #24
I don't know how to do it, but someone needs to come out with a big headline: Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #28
Yes, Hmmmmmm. Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #23
PoliticalJunkie - you have a point. MontanaMama Dec 2016 #35
Is there definitely going to be a recount? drm604 Dec 2016 #42
Wooooodamnwho! lonestarnot Dec 2016 #48
Realistically speaking: If all recounts end up giving HRC the lead, will she end up President Elect? Blaukraut Dec 2016 #49
If the recounts are finished before the election is certified for each state involved andym Dec 2016 #52
She would be president. Period. duffyduff Dec 2016 #54
Liar-man Plucketeer Dec 2016 #55
If the recounts gave HRC a victory, her electors would be voting in the EC. But they won't. BzaDem Dec 2016 #60
Screw them all cilla4progress Dec 2016 #57
Once the Corporate mafia gets to him he wont be talking as if there is hope INdemo Dec 2016 #58
It is still a pretty tall mountain but at least it wasn't quite as high as we thought jimlup Dec 2016 #63
 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
53. We were awaiting these votes and expecting this result from Philidelphia.
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 12:12 AM
Dec 2016

All the counties are submitting their official totals, and they all add votes to election night returns, most add more Trump votes but Philadelphia is an urban center with lots of voters voting blue. No more shifts this big remain out.

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
2. Clinton Could Overtake Trump, And Media Won't Report It
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:35 PM
Dec 2016

The media has moved on, and is now in full trump president-elect mode. To them, this is just sour grapes by the Democrats, so even if there turns out to be significant fraud, the media will dismiss it as irrelevant, since in their minds, the election is over.

I'm extremely glad there is a recount going on, but sadly I don't expect anything to change. The fact the repubs are not even putting up much of a fight is indication to me that they are unafraid of any possible revisions to the electoral votes. The moment the danger becomes real, you can bet they will do everything possible, legal or illegal, to make certain Mr T is still given the throne.

okieinpain

(9,397 posts)
4. if votes overturned the election do you really
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:39 PM
Dec 2016

think we could put hillary in office without a civil war. just asking.

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
6. Did That Happen In 2000?
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:47 PM
Dec 2016

Once the votes came in, Gore actually won the election. This was of course, reported by the media. I think it made Page 20 of the NYT.

The Democrats and Hillary in particular, will not want a civil war. Just like Gore, just like Kerry, she will smile and say that she's doing what's best for the country, and not fight it.

I remember how Gore said he would fight. How Kerry said he would fight. Give up your belief that Hillary is a fighter, yada yada....

The most our side will gain is more bragging rights. Meanwhile, the repubs will have the scoreboard. Because in politics, it's not how you play the game, it's the final score at the buzzer that matters. And the repubs have already turned off the clock.

Buckeye_Democrat

(15,042 posts)
12. I thought the media consortium reported that...
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:58 PM
Dec 2016

... Gore would have still lost if Florida if they had applied the Democratic-suggested recount methods.

Ironically, Gore would have won if they had applied the Republican-suggested recount methods.

How to treat hanging chads, dimples, etc.

It's been awhile since I read their report, so maybe I'm remembering wrong?

rzemanfl

(30,288 posts)
26. If I recall correctly the original release date of the book was September 11, 2001 or shortly
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:31 PM
Dec 2016

thereafter. I think the conclusion was Gore would have won a statewide recount in Florida.

 

Grey Lemercier

(1,429 posts)
30. here is your answer (Bush won if only the 4 counties were recounted, Gore maybe would
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:47 PM
Dec 2016

have won by 42 to 171 votes if every county had been recounted, BUT there were 2200 ballots from other counties that were never counted so that even might not be true.

Another recount should Bush would have won if it went statewide and used the most commonly accepted standard.

We will never truly know. Gore fucked up huge by not making it statewide.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/

NewJeffCT

(56,840 posts)
31. There was a newspaper consortium that later did several of their own recounts
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:55 PM
Dec 2016

I believe. According to their methodology, Gore would have won 4 out of 5 of the different methods.

from wikipedia:

Florida Ballot Project recounts[edit]
The National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago, sponsored by a consortium of major United States news organizations, conducted the Florida Ballot Project, a comprehensive review of 175,010 ballots that were collected from the entire state, not just the disputed counties that were recounted.[52] These ballots contained undervotes (votes with no choice made for president) and overvotes (votes made with more than one choice marked).

The project's goal was to determine the reliability and accuracy of the systems used in the voting process, including how different systems correlated with voter mistakes. The total number of undervotes and overvotes in Florida amounted to 3% of all votes cast in the state. The review's findings were reported in the media during the week after November 12, 2001, by the organizations that funded the recount: Associated Press, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The St. Petersburg Times, The Palm Beach Post and Tribune Publishing, which included the Los Angeles Times, South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Orlando Sentinel and Chicago Tribune.[53][54] The NORC concluded that if the disputes over the validity of all the ballots statewide in question had been consistently resolved and any uniform standard applied, the electoral result would have been reversed and Gore would have won by 107–115 votes if only two of the three coders had to agree on the ballot. When counting ballots wherein all three coders agreed, Gore would have won the most restrictive scenario by 127 votes and Bush would have won the most inclusive scenario by 110 votes. Inclusive in media reporting likely refers to including the undervotes (only) as these people were then included in the vote. Whether overvotes were truly nullified in counts is not known.[55]

Subsequent analyses cast further doubt on conclusions that Bush would likely still have won had the U.S. Supreme Court not intervened. An analysis of the NORC data by University of Pennsylvania researcher Steven F. Freeman and journalist Joel Bleifuss concluded that after a recount of all uncounted votes using any standard (inclusive, strict, statewide or county by county), Gore would have been the victor.[56] Such a statewide review including all uncounted votes was a real possibility, as Leon County Circuit Court Judge Terry Lewis, whom the Florida Supreme Court had assigned to oversee the statewide recount, had scheduled a hearing for December 13 (mooted by the U.S. Supreme Court's final ruling on the 12th) to consider the question of including overvotes. Subsequent statements by Lewis and internal court documents support the likelihood that overvotes would have been included in the recount.[57] Florida State University professor of public policy Lance deHaven-Smith observed that, even considering only undervotes, "under any of the five most reasonable interpretations of the Florida Supreme Court ruling, Gore does, in fact, more than make up the deficit".[58] Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting's analysis of the NORC study and media coverage of it supports these interpretations and criticizes the coverage of the study by media outlets such as the New York Times and the other media consortium members.[54]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
59. There was no provision in Florida's state constitution for a statewide recount
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 03:06 PM
Dec 2016

The only way Gore could have received one would be through permission of the Governor (and we all remember who that was) or by court order. The Florida Supreme Court did order the statewide recount, and it should have had the last word. The Constitution clearly delegates the right to run Presidential elections to the states, and each state must outline its election laws in the state constitution. The Supreme Court jumped in and took the appeal from the Florida Supreme Court.

The "Republican rules" referred to in this thread was the older version of the rules which had been amended about two years earlier. The revised rules were the ones that Gore referred to in selecting a small number of counties for a sampling recount. Gore used the right rules; Bush illegally used the old ones because the Bush operators thought it was to his advantage.

Two years prior to Election 2000, a candidate for mayor was elected I believe in Miami (but I could be wrong) whose opponent hotly contested the win, saying the "winner" had stolen the election. The issue went to court. After a long trial, the "winner" was declared the loser, and the "loser" took over the mayoral seat. And that is why Florida revised its election law so it would never face this type of embarrassing situation again. Little did it know ....

The Supreme Court tried to justify stopping the recount by two laws: the Safe Harbor Law, a law passed centuries earlier when the states sent their slate of electors to Washington to be counted BY PONY EXPRESS. Often the riders and the horses did not get going until too late to reach DC by the time of the vote. Thus we received the Safe Harbor law to prevent a more timely dispatch of votes. In the year 2000, when slates were dispatched via more expeditious methods than by pony express, this law was one of the main laws used to stop the recount -- the potential violation of the Safe Harbor deadline.

The second law regarding equal protection of the vote was also cited as a reason for stopping the recount. Should Gore prevail in the recount by having votes not counted the first go-around but included in the second round tallied which made him the winner of the election, that would be less than fair to the original voters whose votes were first counted. The thinking stated was that a greater weight would be given to votes picked up in Round 2 than Round 1, and that would not be fair to the original voters. So the Supreme Court disallowed the recount on that equal weight issue. In handing the election to Bush*, the Supreme Court essentially offset the votes of nearly 500,000 people nationwide, the approximate popular vote win Gore achieved over Bush.*

If this sounds crazy to you, it is due to the fact that the whole thing was just that. As I said above, the Supreme Court had no authority to overrule the Florida Supreme Court, and this judgment handed down by it was based on political preferences as opposed to following the supreme law of the land.

And that is exactly why Bush was considered by many to be illegitimate, the protests happened at his inauguration, and this very website sprang into existence. I will always be thankful for the creation of DU because it carried me and many others through the deep, dark years of the Bush* selection.

Sam

Bettie

(17,097 posts)
34. Here's the thing
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:09 PM
Dec 2016

Letting the orange man take office is NOT what is best for the country.

Anyone who says that is lying or doesn't really care about what happens to the country.

I'm so tired of Dems refusing to fight for US.

SharonAnn

(13,883 posts)
45. It was reported that Gore would've won under a couple scenarios but report released on 9-12-01
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 10:15 PM
Dec 2016

Releasing the report the day after 9-11 meant that it got lost in the 9-11 reporting.

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
46. Coincidence
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 10:17 PM
Dec 2016

Strange that it happened to come out that day. Not that it would have mattered. When there is any doubt, it's usually just coincidence.

world wide wally

(21,830 posts)
7. At this point I don't even care about a civil war.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:53 PM
Dec 2016

Better now than when the Trumpophiles have the army on their side.
That or just surrender now.

uponit7771

(91,761 posts)
40. +1, fuck em... 99.5% of them with the AR-15s would pee on themselves straight up if it came
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:46 PM
Dec 2016

... time to get busy

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
16. As a veteran I learned a long time ago that some things are worth fighting for.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:11 PM
Dec 2016

So you're saying we should just allow an election to be stolen because the other party probably won't give up the presidency easily, even if they are caught red handed trying to steal an election. If that's your attitude and the attitude of the Democratic Party, than the Democratic Party is a bunch of pussies who should decertified as a political party and go the way of the Whigs and other political parties which cease to exist. I have no desire to fight for a party which is unwilling to fight for itself.

 

triron

(22,240 posts)
18. You may have a good point.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:14 PM
Dec 2016

Why is the federal gov't hiding the truth about the Russian interference in the election?
wtf is going on?

INdemo

(7,020 posts)
33. I dont think so. If it was determined that Hillary actually
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:08 PM
Dec 2016

won Im not sure the entire National Guard would respond when ordered to help keep everything civil

murielm99

(31,436 posts)
37. If she won,
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:28 PM
Dec 2016

bring it on. It would be lawful for her to take office. A civil war would not be lawful, so screw them. If we have right on our side, bring it on. We don't need to cower away from this orange monster. We need to stand up to him and his brownshirts. (Or are they orangeshirts)?

uponit7771

(91,761 posts)
39. Yes, no doubt... most of the Trumps Band Of Bigots are punks at best.. they would pee on themselves
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:42 PM
Dec 2016

... before they fought a damn thAng

trueblue2007

(18,116 posts)
43. Stop asking such a stupid question. IF Hillary's EC votes topped Rumps, SHE WOULD BE PRESIDENT
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 08:15 PM
Dec 2016

NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

she would be certified and he would be OUT ON HIS RUMP

okieinpain

(9,397 posts)
66. my question is not actually stupid.
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 06:57 PM
Dec 2016

im pretty sure there have been plenty of "for the good of the country" moments we don't know about. hell gore vs. bush is one isn't it.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
47. I say let the games begin. Just one question: just how would a civil war play out?
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 11:07 PM
Dec 2016

Demographically, contrary to what people might believe, we're a very purple nation. Does the civil war end up being another Hutu vs.Tutsi scenario where neighbors begin killing each other?

DK504

(3,847 posts)
13. Well Hell
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:01 PM
Dec 2016

They are already deliberately not reporting or misreporting every thing. I'm sure Steve K will be fired immediately since he reported that votes haven't been counted.

okieinpain

(9,397 posts)
3. im waiting to hear about someone committing
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:38 PM
Dec 2016

suicide by burning themselves up in their house. which just happened to have a large number of boxes that might have been poll votes but we can't tell now because the house burned up.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
5. I just updated my earlier message.The vote count in PA reduced Trump's lead by 28,856 down to 46,978
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:45 PM
Dec 2016

an additional 5,834 votes than I reported in the OP. The reason I'm making the change is because Kornacki rounded the original difference to 70,000 and that is the number I used in my calculation in the OP. I subsequently found my notes with the original difference and noticed that the original difference was 75,834 representing an addition 5,834 votes than I reported in the OP. I thought that difference of an additional 5,834 votes was worth mentioning.

red dog 1

(29,320 posts)
10. This was reported here this morning
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:54 PM
Dec 2016

"Hillary's gap in PA just dropped by 23K"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028322171


Also from that OP

Reply # 48
"She's only 15K votes shy of (automatic) recount"
(If the vote is less than 1/2 percent, PA has to do a statewide recouint)

Reply # 41
"Found a link"
(Click on the link in this reply)

TeddyBear 1

(79 posts)
15. trump trumped
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:06 PM
Dec 2016

Michigan put on HOLD for recount by Trump - something is not right... why is he doing this????

Tomorrow at 9:30 est.. is important meeting in Michigan about this..

mitty14u2

(1,015 posts)
21. WTF
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:17 PM
Dec 2016

Trump files objection to Jill Stein-led election recount in Michigan

President-elect’s attorneys claim Stein is not entitled to a recount and describe Green party candidate’s actions as creating an ‘electoral farce’

Donald Trump asked the state of Michigan on Thursday to reject Jill Stein’s request for a recount of the presidential election.
Attorneys for the US president-elect argued in a filing to Michigan election officials that Stein was not entitled to the recount and that it could not be completed in time before the state must cast its electoral college votes.

“Michigan should not grant this lawless, insulting request, and its voters should not risk having the Electoral College door knocked off its hinges, all because a one-percent candidate is dissatisfied with the election’s outcome,” Trump’s filing said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/01/donald-trump-michigan-recount-objection

Trump’s filing said. PDF Link http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Objection_to_Recount_Petition_544089_7.pdf

Michigan Corrupt, Republican Run, Russian hacks, Just Trust Trump, No F'ing Way!

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
24. thought so.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:25 PM
Dec 2016

you realize how these recently discovered votes will look to a lot of nonpartisans who are paying attention?

Baitball Blogger

(48,043 posts)
28. I don't know how to do it, but someone needs to come out with a big headline:
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:34 PM
Dec 2016

"Hillary votes were not counted."

MontanaMama

(24,023 posts)
35. PoliticalJunkie - you have a point.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:10 PM
Dec 2016

Some things are worth fighting for. I'm not for rolling over and having this election stolen if/when the numbers turn in our favor. The mere fact that orange hitler is trying to stop this juggernaut speaks volumes.

Blaukraut

(5,908 posts)
49. Realistically speaking: If all recounts end up giving HRC the lead, will she end up President Elect?
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 11:41 PM
Dec 2016

Or will it just be an afterthought and Trump will remain the victor on paper?

andym

(5,683 posts)
52. If the recounts are finished before the election is certified for each state involved
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 12:09 AM
Dec 2016

and in the very unlikely case Hillary Clinton won all three states after all-- she would be President.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
54. She would be president. Period.
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 12:13 AM
Dec 2016

Her concession speech means nothing if she won outright, which I strongly suspect she did.

INdemo

(7,020 posts)
58. Once the Corporate mafia gets to him he wont be talking as if there is hope
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 12:36 PM
Dec 2016

for Hillary...His script will be more Trump friendly on his next show or he could be be doing his show on Sundays at 3AM

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