Excellent video showcasing why Democrats lost. Straight, no sugarcoating.

with wisdom, grace and gravitas,
and can cut the heart of an issue with first hand knowledge, insight and always respectful debate on issues,
Been very impressed with him since he was Obama's Green jobs "Czar". The right attacked him precisely because he was a brilliant rising star.

Some of his views are a bit off my radar, but overall I usually agree with him 90% of the time.

and factories and off-shored their jobs are invariably republicans?

Hope Van poses that to them in his special.

It's too late now of course as they've already blamed Hillary and fell for Trump's lies about bringing jobs back, which of course is not going to happen.

I responded below.

"We made America."

Fuck their entitled, arrogant white asses.

Fuck him for pushing this bullshit. He does NOT get it - it's about people who never had to struggle simply because they were born white. Didn't even have to finish high school to get a good job with good pay and excellent benefits because of unions. Voted against unions in this election, too.

Fuck Van Jones and fuck that family. I am beyond irate. I never curse online until this election. But that family of stupid white assholes is going to deserve every single bit of hurt that Trump is going to give them. And I will laugh.

White men are privileged because of their skin color and their genitalia. They want to keep women of all races and ethnic groups out of power as well as male minority groups.

They didn't have to work hard to get the best jobs and think because they are white males, they deserve the high pay. When the job market became a bit more equitable for women and minorities, these creeps blew a gasket.

I just don't care about their whiny tales of how "bad" they have it when they have voted against their economic self-interest for some 36 years. Let 'em suffer.

This election really was about sexism and racism.

And all those assholes giving her the worst time when she needed that salary every bit as much.

based on what went on in the mines in northern Minnesota when women started mining.

[div class = "excerpt"]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Country_(film)

North Country is a 2005 American drama film directed by Niki Caro, starring Charlize Theron, Frances McDormand, Sean Bean, Richard Jenkins, Michelle Monaghan, Jeremy Renner, Woody Harrelson and Sissy Spacek. The screenplay by Michael Seitzman was inspired by the 2002 book Class Action: The Story of Lois Jenson and the Landmark Case That Changed Sexual Harassment Law by Clara Bingham and Laura Leedy Gansler, which chronicled the case of Jenson v. Eveleth Taconite Company.



Info on the real story:

[div class = "excerpt"]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenson_v._Eveleth_Taconite_Co.

Jenson first began working at the site in March 1975 and along with other women, endured a continuous stream of hostile behavior from male employees, including sexual harassment, abusive language, threats, stalking and intimidation. On October 5, 1984, she mailed a complaint to the Minnesota Department of Human Rights [1] outlining the problems she experienced. In retaliation, her car tires were slashed a week later. In January 1987, the state's agency requested that Ogelbay Norton Co.,[2] a Cleveland, Ohio-based part-owner of the mine, pay US$6,000 in punitive damages and $5,000 to Jenson for mental anguish, but the company refused.

On August 15, 1988, attorney Paul Sprenger filed Lois E. Jenson and Patricia S. Kosmach v. Eveleth Taconite Co. in U.S. District Court in the U.S. District Court in Minneapolis. Class-action status was requested at the time, and granted by James M. Rosenbaum on December 16, 1991. Jenson quit working at the mine on January 25, 1992, and was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder a short time later....

I guess some dems are content to get dominated by the right wing.

and knows the white "working class" males are unreachable.

It started with Nixon and the hard hats. I was around then. Nixon played the race card.

We didn't lose the election but for the EC. We don't need the bigot vote.

Where were you when Reagan started the wholesale war against the masses in the 1980s? I was screaming bloody murder about it. I used to feel sorry for the blue collar-stiffs, but election after election, they keep screwing up.

There is no room in the Democratic Party for racist, sexist males. None.

You would need to explain the flip from Obama to Trump in order for your argument of "they are all racists" to be coherent. I'm waiting.

The world doesn't revolve around racist, sexist men.

her popular votes are an aggregate total across the nation. The flip I (and Jones) is speaking of is specific to the rust belt, where she did not (obviously) have an overall lead in the popular vote.

Furthermore, citing the pop vote is a non sequitor. The presidential election is decided by the EC, not the popular vote. She lost in the rust belt and therefore lost the EC, so any strategy on how to win again must take this information into account.

As I said previously: Make a coherent argument how this particular flip is explained by white working class dudes being universally and irredeemably racist, because you haven't offered any proof this is the case.

who expected the privilege for themselves to continue. They think the Democrats care more about minorities than they do about them, and they punished them.

He kept talking about Hillary not doing anything for them, but she wasn't President. It was bizarre.

white again".

They heard the dog whistle, decided they liked it and got in line.

Another explanation is misogyny. Hillary kicked Trump's ass in every debate, was leading until Comey pulled his underhanded and calculated move that gave them all an excuse to not vote for a woman.

So the phrase "Make America Great Again" is a spell or power word of some kind, able to transform Obama voters into crazed racists? Interesting theory but I would like an explanation that doesn't rely on magic. Revise and resubmit, thanks.

again" means. Hell, Trump even bought in the white supremacist Bannon to openly re-enforce his intent to those who didn't get it early on with his first campaign pronouncement that 'Mexicans are criminals and rapists'.

It's no secret, no magic spell, but it certainly has power.

The repugs have been using dog whistle code since their infamous Southern strategy. I refer you to Lee Atwaters equally infamous speech on dog whistles: http://americablog.com/2012/11/audio-of-infamous-lee-atwater-interview-its-a-matter-of-how-abstract-you-handle-the-race-thing.html

I would like an explanation also since I live in a county of Ohio ( Ashtabula ) that flipped to trump this year .... It has been over 40 years since my county voted republican ...........

Huh? What's that supposed to mean?

Losing the electoral college is losing the election. That's the rules of the game.

We get dominated by the right wing because we are mealy mouthed cowards. The Republicans totally blow over the Democrats and keep them in the teeth as they go over them. So yeah, I really don't care about a winning attitude.

If you think empathy and strategic understanding of the political landscape is 'kissing up to racists' then frankly you deserve to lose and will continue to lose.

At any rate, none of you have sufficiently explained how racism is a factor if people in the rust belt voted for obama and then trump. Please, enlighten us all.

Racists don't vote for black men for president.

I actually had it right at first.

They heard Trump's dog whistle, those white male voters, got in line and brought their wives with them to get the black guy out of the White House, forgetting, or chosing to ignore that their troubles came from Bush's wrecking of the economy.

They want their white male only privilege back and misogyny come along with that so they certainly weren't going to vote for Hillary.

Got it?

These people voted for Obama, MAGA actually being a literal magic spell seems like a little much.

When the conservatives lost in 2008 and again in 2012, did they kick out the hardline conservatives and shift to the middle? Did they seek to understand the people who voted for the Democrats? No, they doubled down on their Tea Party fanatics, motivated them to get to the election booths in scores, and carried the day.

The Democratic Party is not going to succeed in 2018 and beyond by mewling over who Maw and Paw Jerkwhistle in West Flyovertown. Fuck them and their horse.

We go to the left, with meaningful progressive proposals..

The dems need to go left, I agree. This entails a new appreciation for left economics as a way to build inroads into these communities. Writing them off entirely is a mistake as I think you will find a large degree of support among them so long as they perceive their needs are being met economically.

How many times have you been homeless? I have been 3 times. How many times have you had no food for you and your family? It's been many times for me. Have you ever been on a vacation? I'm over 50 years old and I have NEVER had a vacation. Do you own your own home? I don't, never have and likely never will. Have you ever had to hand wash your laundry in the bathtub and wring them out until your hands bled because you didn't have money to go to the laundrymat? I have.

I'm white and I have had my share of struggles. I have faced stereotypes and bigotry too...for being a single mother, poor, needing to ask for help.

Being born white does NOT make your life struggle free. Van Jones is actually taking the time to actually get to know people before making assumptions about what they think or feel. You should try to do the same and you might learn something of value.

White men have nothing against them, except choices they make themselves.

There are other factors...like poverty, mental illness, physical disability, homelessness, etc.

I dare say a chronically homeless white man with schizophrenia struggles more than nearly anyone else. All that being said...it's not a goddamned contest or competition about who has it worse. No one should be struggling to the level many people of all races and walks of life are struggling in this country.

. . . they can.

I voted for Hillary. I find it extremely DISTURBING the way many people here are trying to portray people who voted for Obama twice as racists because they got angry for the Democrats ignoring them and their needs for so long and voted for Trump. If they were really racists they never would have voted for Obama. They're vindictive and wanted to send a big, fat middle finger to the "establishment." It's not about racism at all, at least not to the majority of people.

"Make American great again" was just dog whistle code for "make America white again".

They heard the dog whistle, decided they liked how it hinted at restoring white male privilege back to its former dominance and they got in line to vote for Trump, forgetting or ignoring that their problems came from Bush destroying the economy.

Another explanation is misogyny. Hillary kicked Trump's ass in every debate, was leading until Comey pulled his underhanded and calculated move that gave them all an excuse to not vote for a woman either — white male only privilege and the promise of it being reestablished in full trumped everything.

If you are not a racist or someone who has experienced racism you aren't likely to even notice dog whistles. If you are not someone who obsessively follows the news and picks apart every last nuance...you don't notice dog whistles.

The reason dog whistles are effective is because they are not blatantly obvious and are designed to be explained away as just making something out of nothing.

One thing we definitely know is that Trump voters are big on conspiracy theories and don't believe factual reporting and the media, so all the reports about Trump could have been discounted as untrustworthy to his voters. There was a great deal (and still is) of cynicism towards the press.

Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Mine is that many white males responded to "Make America great again" because it hinted at restoring their white male privilege to dominance again, which of course includes dominance not just over POCs but women as well, thus fewer votes for Hillary.

It's unfortunate that a lot of Democrats just don't seem to get it. It's far easier to paint every Trump voter with a sexist, racist brush but that's a lazy approach. This is far too complex and complicated for that. Are there racists who supported Trump? Obviously. But are there also people who have struggled for far too long that voted for him out of desperation? Yes. If jobs have left, healthcare costs have gone up, you're struggling to put food on the table, and you're one medical problem away from disaster, you might just take a risk if it means change. Clearly we haven't had terrific outreach to these people if they've felt ignored.

But keep telling yourself you do

that there was. I am saying there are a wide array of reasons why people vote the way they do. Offering a one-size-fits-all "it was racism" however is rather foolish when some people who voted for him voted for Obama twice. Once you're willing to listen to people, come back at me.

Apparently they would rather alienate not only the people who switched from Obama to Trump AND many people who voted for Hillary than actually admit that they are wrong. I guess 4 years of and orange asshole just isn't enough for them.

Nice attempt to change the subject and what I said.

All other things being equal, white males have always been advantaged.

And jailed for stupid reasons.
You are clueless here.