2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy are people so insistent that the Democratic Party is fatally flawed?
Think about russian hacks.
Think about Comey.
Think Racism/Sexism.
You don't think these things played a significant role in this loss?
These are the reasons.
So, what are we going to do about the things that really affected the election?
Never mind all this bull that the Democratic Party is falling apart and needs rebuilding. That is a canard.
radical noodle
(8,582 posts)spooky3
(36,204 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)WhiteTara
(30,164 posts)people who never troubled themselves about party politics have for the first time, looked at the process and since their candidate did not win, they want to "remake" our party to suit them, although many have NO idea what the party does or how it functions.
ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)Swear to God.
LisaM
(28,601 posts)I am concerned about people wanting to narrow it. It has always been - and should be - the big tent.
Chiquitita
(752 posts)I voted for president Obama twice and Hillary. Still, as an educator I was deeply disappointed by the tacit approval given to the corporatization of education during the last eight years. Some of us want the Democratic Party to defend education as a public good. So, I think there are multiple reasons. Also, losing. But, I've got too much to do now locally and in educational institutions, to sigh about why Arnie Duncan... and how students and families were poorly served by that pick. It's just an example of how I as a lifelong democrat feel disappointed -- but I'll be loyal regardless.
boston bean
(36,491 posts)Please list specifics on what could be more left.
Chiquitita
(752 posts)again, it's about people thinking, I'm a loyal democrat, but not everything is perfect about the leadership...we can improve. Hillary spoke little about her plans for k-12 during the campaign. For me public education is a priority. I don't know who her pick for secretary of Education would have been. I'm sure leagues better than DeVos.
mcar
(43,504 posts)Not criticizing you, Chiquitita, as my SO is a public school teacher and we are both very supportive of public education.
My problem is that some Democrats, or people who say they are Democrats or progressives, seem to think that the party and its leadership need to be perfect, need to speak to their and only their main issue.
HRC did have an education plan; she spoke about it and the details were on her website. And, most, if not all, nominees do not indicate who they would choose for cabinet positions until after they are elected.
As President Obama often said, "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Too many decided that Hillary wasn't perfect enough for them so they voted 3rd party or didn't vote. Or, they did vote for her, but spent months criticizing her.
Many of these people, BTW, did the same thing to President Obama - only they waited till after he was inaugurated to start complaining that he didn't do exactly what they wanted.
David__77
(23,870 posts)In 1972 the Democratic platform called for guaranteed minimum income and expanding public sector employment.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)And while he was in office, he set up the EPA,OSHA, NOAA, the first federal Affirmative Action requirements, and also supported a minimum income in the form of a negative income tax.
It was a different time.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Chiquitita
(752 posts)I'm not sure how that works. Maybe voter turnout?
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Chiquitita
(752 posts)Is my preferred answer. I wish Feingold had won. If you are looking for a fight with a fellow democrat you won't get it from me.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)that the country wants more left wing democrats, instead of middle of the road democrats.
bill de blasio works for NYC, but Cuomo works for NY state. cuomo is substantially less liberal than DeBlasio.
blue cat
(2,439 posts)Under Trump and the republicans. I know a lot of right wing teachers here in Texas, including my sister. If teachers don't start to vote for the Democratic Party in 2 and 4 years, then they deserve what they are going to get from the republicans which is absolutely no respect.
Ace Rothstein
(3,299 posts)We're getting decimated at the State level outside of solid blue states. Something has to change.
Midwestern Democrat
(822 posts)to look at the carnage that's happened down ballot. And here's the thing - even if all you care about is the presidential election, the down ballot damage will directly impact that by severely limiting the pool of potential candidates. We're already seeing it - people right now are hard pressed to name an obvious candidate to run in 2020 (for 2004, you could have rattled off the names Al Gore, John Kerry, Joe Biden, Dick Gephardt, etc without even thinking about it); Tim Kaine was an utterly ordinary Senator who got tapped for VP because there weren't really all that many other options; etc
Ace Rothstein
(3,299 posts)Hopefully we can get our people out to vote and at least get some of these statehouses and governor's houses flipped in the next 2 years. I have little hope for the Senate until 2020 and the House until 2022.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Our party holds fewer seats today than at any prior time in my 56-year life. If people can't see we need to change so that we can WIN, I just don't know what to say.
CBHagman
(17,136 posts)We've got to mobilize people for every election, whether presidential, midterm, state, local, dogcatcher. No sitting it out. No whining that one is not inspired by the candidates. The elections are going to take place no matter what, so it's best to play.
A lot is going to depend on public opinion. The media, most of it for-profit, gave extremely generous coverage to a so-called reality TV star with an extremely dodgy resume -- accusations of fraud, housing discrimination, and much more -- and they're still doing it, and by no means as tough on his ugly present and past as they generally are on Democrats, the frame there being if Democrats win, they lose, and if they lose, they are obliterated. I can guarantee you if Hillary Clinton had won the electoral college we'd be treated to nightly announcements about which member of the GOP criticized her Cabinet picks, and no political honeymoon at all.
So we need to regard ourselves as a political chorus, commenting on every racist move or nominee, every sign of incompetence, every attempt to afflict the afflicted and comfort the comfortable. It's going to be difficult, but I believe there is in most people a basic sense of fairness.
And we're going to have to expand the party, no two ways about it, and steer clear of splitting up the vote. Split up the vote and you get Paul LePage. You get G.W. Bush. You get Trump.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)I heard someone describe such folks as political "isolationists" who think they can somehow do it all alone (when they're really planning on doing nothing, waiting for someone else to do it, and then complain about the result). Serial complainers, on other words. They hate that Democrats couldn't magically fix all those things you mentioned, because they know Democrats could have but chose not to, somehow. Yeah, real tinfoil hat bullshit going on there.
KPN
(16,101 posts)this election was a slam dunk that didn't happen
because the Party is losing at every level consistently over the past 6 years
because we're disappointed
There's some good ones. There are more -- but my sense is many here really don't want to hear them, or take them personally when they do, or they are ideologically stuck where they are.
It's all pretty simple. When you keep doing the same thing with the same disappointing or failed results ...
TonyPDX
(962 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)The perfect has always been the enemy of the good.
Anyone who thought "None of the Above" was the best choice this election is a fucking moran.
Response to boston bean (Original post)
Post removed
brush
(57,501 posts)That's been proven. Why are you denying that?
Assange has a grudge against Hillary, and Putin wanted his friend Trump to win. Those are not secrets.
The election was a silent coup by a foreign power that got their favored candidate elected with its meddling. It's called dizinformatsiya. Here's a link: http://www.bing.com/search?q=election%20dezinformatsiya&pc=cosp&ptag=C1N0566D010916A316A5D3C6E&conlogo=CT3210127
And Comey was a big part of it with his last-minute, underhanded shit.
What we need to do going forward is to make stopping and exposing repug cheating and voter suppression a major part of out campaigns from now on.
We will beat them because we outnumber them and our demographic advantage is growing (millions of POCs turn voting age every year).
They know this and know that their elderly base is shrinking, which is why they have to cheat. We actually out voted them by millions of votes.
onyxw
(36 posts)The only proof I've encountered is the letter on behalf of the 17 agencies that didn't provide any details or evidence they found supporting the issuance of the letter. Is that the extent of the proof out there or is there other support details/proof that I missed? Thanks.
brush
(57,501 posts)President Obama just ordered a review of Russian hacking and interference in our election.
That was posted on DU today.
lapucelle
(19,532 posts)Sanders himself acknowledged that fact.
And according to Comey's Congressional testimony, nobody would ever be sitting in a military brig if they had done what Hillary did because no reasonable prosecutor would ever have brought a case.
I'm always amazed when people who rail about the apocryphal powers that be rely largely on right wing talking points and debunked fake news narratives to support dubious assertions.
brush
(57,501 posts)We just have to make stopping voter suppression and Russian hacks and rogue FBI directors a big party of our campaigns from now on.
We have a huge and growing numerical advantage as millions of POCs turn 18 and become eligible to vote every year.
The repugs, a more elderly and dying off party know this and thus have to cheat to win.
We have to concentrate on stopping and exposing their cheating.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)the democratic party is alive and will get better for what we have to endure the next few years...trump/conservative agenda has no mandate in america and we can use that for retaking state legislatures and congress...
best to channel the energy for state and local elections
nycbos
(6,346 posts)Also we have people who don't see the point in turning out in local elections.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Run for office is "against us", a racist, and a sexist.
The last decade has been catastriphic for the Democratic party, at the State and local levels. Change is needed, and Sanders and leaders like him must lead the charge
ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)Also, not a Democrat.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)No, but an argument could be made that Sander's views are more inline with Democratic ideals.
ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)If they were, he would be one, don't you think?
Look, at my most radical, Sanders wouldn't have been left enough for me, so I get what you are saying to a point, but Sanders did all he could to criticize and damage the party-- and he succeeded very well. He did so at a pivitol point, maybe he thought the timing was right, but I thought it was atrocious
NRQ891
(217 posts)as well as homophobic and islamophobic
this party has a serious issue of McCarthyism. What was Senator Joe McCarthy's definition of a 'Communist', 'Communist sympathizer', or 'Fellow traveler'? Very simple - anyone who ever disagreed with him or criticized him about anything, ever.
He had a great run until he finally got called out for it, and drank himself to death a few short years later. McCarthyism is a degenerate vice, and ultimately is a destroyer of self, in the end
ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)Is a form of MCarthyism?
Damn.
NRQ891
(217 posts)and make a habit and reputation of calling out 15 out of 5 racists or sexists
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)KPN
(16,101 posts)character of OPs like this one. I voted for Hillary, yet because I feel the Democratic Party has failed, I feel like I'm viewed as the enemy. This stuff is almost as bad as the GOP!
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)Super-delegates fell in line early. They knew what her issues with the left were, and knew her image among the american people was a problem. Her campaign staff were concerned about the appearance of corruption within the Clinton foundation, and that her wall street speeches would be a problem. They knew that the email scandal wasn't going to go away.
They knew ALL of this and basically had no plan to address these issues. They relied on the republicans to nominate a vile turd of a candidate so they could pick up voters disgusted by him and hope that people would overlook her negatives.
Well, it almost worked.
All it did was depress voter turnout, which we absolutely CANNOT afford with republican vote repression schemes, and the GOP and their vile turd ran away with it.
Establishment dems had their heads up their asses this election. There is no other way to put it.
We are still just barely recovering from the great recession, and we are running a candidate who gave multiple million dollars speeches to the companies responsible? And the response is "nothing to see here, folks"?
Are the democrats so in bed with big corporate donors that they can't see why this is a problem?
And then you have Obama pushing TPP, and yeah Clinton switched into not supporting TPP, but absolutely no one who wasn't already on board believed her.
NRQ891
(217 posts)the exact quote was 'there's a lot of smoke, but no fire'
that's straight out of 'Animal Farm' - that's the kind of thing that could make George Orwell blush
Hillary Clinton admitted theres a lot of smoke when it comes to the Clinton Foundation, but the Democratic presidential candidate insisted theres no fire.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)That was like poking a stick in the eye to young people drowning in student loan debt. A slap in the face to everyone who had lost their homes to foreclosure fraud by the big banks while Obama stood by and watched. A smug putdown to everyone in economic despair. A tone deaf statement to Rust Belt families living among empty factories, where they can remember earning a living wage.
Democrats were so focused on how awful Trump was, they felt they had to say the opposite of anything Trump said.
Which resulted in the Democrats sounding out of touch and tone deaf to a lot of people.
This was a disaster, from top to bottom. Democrats are down for the count. We need to recognize this fact, and work hard to recover.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)When one looks at the map, I have to wonder if the entire campaign was meaningless, really -- we lost it when the Dem Establishment coalesced around Hillary before anyone had even thrown their hats into the ring, without realizing the Rust Belt would reject her because Bill had signed NAFTA /PNTR-China. Many voters there blame the Clinton Administration for shipping their jobs away, and she was an integral part of it.
DeminPennswoods
(16,314 posts)The biggest thing the Dems need to do is figure out how to explain what they're for in plain, simple language that even the dumbest American can understand and relate to.
Yesterday James Clyburn was on TV and asked a question. He gave a thoughtful, thorough and nuanced answer, but it was an anathema of plain speaking.
For example, say something like "I'll treat your money like it comes out of my wallet". That simple statement encompasses everything about good government that it might otherwise take a paragraph to explain.
CBHagman
(17,136 posts)Your point about nuance not penetrating is spot on. So the more letters to the editor, op-ed pieces, chats with local voters, etc., the better.
DeminPennswoods
(16,314 posts)Brevity is a learned skill. My civil service career was a great education in terse, but informative, writing.
It's a sad development, but many Americans have the attention span of a gerbil. If it's not something quick and pithy, you've lost them. (Possibly this is related to the brain developing differently when trained on computers/tech.) That's why I love Howard Dean when he's a Dem surrogate, his words are short, quick and to the point.
I think Dems need to take the moral high ground, too, by saying things in black and white, like "this is wrong" or "it's wrong" or "that's a lie" or "it's the right thing to do" and so on. Unless you're a sociopath, people instinctively know right from wrong.
CBHagman
(17,136 posts)I think Americans generally are encouraged to be fair-minded and so cutting through the crap is a skill we're going to need to shift the national dialogue.
DeminPennswoods
(16,314 posts)I'm a lot better at writing than at pithy, contemporaneous talking. I'm just not fast on my feet when talking.
CBHagman
(17,136 posts)I tend to think of the right thing to say about 24 hours after I'm confronted with an awkward situation, as when my neighbor observed that people of his generation might not vote because the candidates didn't inspire them. My first thought was that was a rather whiny approach to things, but after a day's thought I realized said nonvoters were ceding power, which they would emphatically not want to do, given the stakes for them and for the country generally.
brush
(57,501 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)that we gained seats in house and senate.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,216 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)in the name of change, are not progressive or forward looking at all.
For instance, Tim Ryan is far less progressive than Nancy Pelosi.
NRQ891
(217 posts)and they'll even let you combine that with other offers or coupons
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)it seems to me that the ideas she ran on are popular.
maybe next time we find a way to not let the FBI and the Russian government intervene the way they did this time.
NRQ891
(217 posts)I don't think anyone ever illustrated this point better than Woody Allen, at the beginning of the movie 'Match Point'. Take a look, it's only 41 seconds through this short clip to see it. One of the most profound movie clips I've ever seen
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)the person from the same party rarely wins, if they win the margin is small.
NRQ891
(217 posts)something that she had no control over, was Anthony Weiner's sexting of a 15 year old girl. Even if Comey's letter was malicious, Weiner gave him the cover to do it.
Weiner was her 'Match Point'
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)and said nothing about that. also, justice dept warned Comey against doing what he did.
it was in complete malice.
NRQ891
(217 posts)it's what Comey cited, when he made it
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)after he chose not to indict was also malicious.
the FBI intervened in this election, and that is unforgivable.
NRQ891
(217 posts)malicious, but too fearful of the risk
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)was also malicious. there were 2 issues of malice here, one weiner related and one not.
KPN
(16,101 posts)There's a lot more that went into and caused this epic fail than Hillary's luck. Introspection and retooling are warranted.
world wide wally
(21,830 posts)a way to fight these fixed elections with some teeth behind it.
Stop blaming Hillary or whoever and figure out a way to get around gerrymandering to take back some state legislatures and governorship so WE can control the voting process.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)At some point we have to stop focusing on the gold ring of the executive and build a national network that supports the state level. This is what the RNC has done to an extensive point and it has paid off big.
For this to work, there has to be a unified message across state lines.
The Democratic party needs to avoid the trap of falling into the "falling apart" myth. We need a strong focus on fighting the fascists, 2018 and state races.
Auggie
(31,798 posts)Seshat
(10 posts)The Democratic Party has lost the House, the Senate and now the presidency. Its members control a minority of state houses and governors mansions.
In many ways this post election discussion has devolved into a proxy battle between Sanders supporters saying 'I told you so' and Clinton supporters unwilling to believe that a different candidate or better choices made by their candidate would have made a difference.
That doesn't bode well for the future of the Democratic Party or the country.
ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)I understand we all want to understand what happened but there a number of factors. What 'sides" are doing is debating which factors contributed the most. The Democratic Party itself cannot align itself with racist ideology, for instance, or support privatization of Medicare, or any number of fatally flawed Republican ideas. We under-estimated the anger of hard core Republicans who hated, HATED president Obama, and being the big tent party, when we tried to present a united, cohesive message, there were too many on the left who hated him, and dispised Hillary Clinton as well.
The party is not any more flawed than any other party and far better than most, but by its very nature it attracts people who simply don't like it and want it to be something else.
Seshat
(10 posts)Ismnotwasm wrote. "The party is not any more flawed than any other party and far better than most, but by its very nature it attracts people who simply don't like it and want it to be something else."
It seems to me that this election has brought out the divide between the "New Democrats" who adopt a more pro-business, and at the same time more socially liberal outlook and those who cherish above all, FDRs vision of economic justice while not denying the same social justice What's ironic is that the guy who articulated the views closest to FDR's is not a member of his party. That's how far from its roots the Democratic Party has gone.
One of the problems with a constitutional model like ours is that like it or not we HAVE to form these big tent parties in order to attain a governing majority. Yet it seems that some Democrats seem determined to purge people who do not agree with them on every issue--or even on what emphasis to place on those issues they do agree on. That seems to me a path to disaster.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)than the "winner." Interesting that you decided to join DU just to post that.
Seshat
(10 posts)I agree that Clinton won the popular vote vote and by a substantial margin. That gives me some hope that this country is not totally lost but it does not change the fact that the Democratic Party has performed abysmally over the past six years.
I ask you, do the Democrats control the House? No. Do we control the Senate? No. In how many states do we control both the governors mansion and the legislature? Don't ask it's too depressing. Finally Did we win the presidency? No. In fact the worst possible Republican candidate imaginable.
is that acceptable to you?
jalan48
(14,393 posts)How did we do nationally in all races? The Republicans now control all the branches of government at the federal level. Let's not pretend things are OK. Take away the west coast states and some in the NE and what do you see?
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)Just screaming that all the time is political correctness, thats one of the things Trump ran against.
andym
(5,683 posts)statehouses after this election with 55.7% of state legislators nationwide (ballotopedia). Yikes. So the Democratic Party is in deep trouble. Up until this election, the possibility of the gaining Senate and holding the Presidency were the bright spots. Yikes. Democrats have 25 Senate seats (including 2 indies) up for re-election versus 8 GOP seats in 2018, so loss of Senate seats is widely expected. The Democratic Party is in full retreat nationwide, except in the West and the Northeast where it is dominant. Whichever party controls the state houses and governorships in 2020 will control gerrymandering and future congressional power. Doesn't look good at this moment. So something is very very wrong. Conservative economic ideology is very popular, and populism, one of the few ways to break through traditional ideology has been seized by Trump for the GOP.
Not only will the Supreme Court go back to it's right tilt, but likely will have a conservative majority. Decisions like Citizen's United which enshrine the ability of the rich to influence elections will be even strengthened diminishing Democrats' chances of taking back power.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)it took the loss of the white house for us to realize this.
andym
(5,683 posts)it's not very surprising that so little attention is paid elsewhere. The GOP funded by very strategic well-funded activists is on the verge of absolute dominance, because they have been executing at all levels.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)a lot of people this election fell for the fake news sites, including liberals who voted for Stein/Johnson etc.
andym
(5,683 posts)They had a long term plan to set up Hillary Clinton for failure (starting in 2013) and it worked out very well for them. They managed to get her favorables and trust ratings under 50% by mid 2015, and below 40% in time for the election-- that made her a weak candidate from the point of view of the political professionals. And some would argue the Democrats really had no really strong alternative candidate available. Yet, if it were not for Comey, she would have still won against an even weaker candidate, Trump. People voting for alternative candidates erred, as well as people not voting for President at all (a very large number). But the loss of the Presidency is very bad news indeed for the Democratic Party and the nation, because the Presidecy was the last barrier to GOP dominance.
LostOne4Ever
(9,597 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Most governorships and most state legislatures.
The latter has allowed the Republicans to suppress our vote and gerrymander themselves to a point it will be extremely hard to get the house back, and the Dems allowed it to happen.
How is that not fatally flawed?[/font]
ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,597 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)This was a particularly contentious primary as a general perception, But at MY state level, I know Democrats were working very hard
LostOne4Ever
(9,597 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]In 2012 there were more votes for democrats for congress than Repubs, but the Repubs sent in more representatives.
This should have been a giant wake up call. [/font]
ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,597 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Then we could have been in better shape at stopping voter suppression and get people in place to undo the Gerry-mandering with the next census.
My district was supposed to be the 6th most likely district to flip dem for Pete Gallego. But the Republicans started sending in massive amounts of funding and ended up defeating Pete.
We are always going to be at a disadvantage (overall-your area could be different from mine) if we don't address this issue more at the local level.
If what you mean is about 2012, here is a story on it.[/font]
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2012/11/09/house-democrats-got-more-votes-than-house-republicans-yet-boehner-says-hes-got-a-mandate/?client=safari
jalan48
(14,393 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)The DNC is not that powerful, nor is it the boogy man people like to think it is.
Here is my favorite article on the whole debacle
http://qz.com/834735/want-to-understand-how-trump-happened-study-quantum-physics/
jalan48
(14,393 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)jalan48
(14,393 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)You can see it every time someone mentions "Jobs" and immediately it's equated with "Education". Other phrases include, "Workers need to train for the jobs of the 21st century."
This goes back to a neoliberal policy of globalism where low skilled factory jobs are outsourced to the Third World while high paying high-tech jobs are done here by people who don't even have to commute, They have a home office and can watch the family pooch watering the begonias from their own window.
This led to the Democratic Party tossing unions under the bus in favor of the tech sector on NASDAQ and the world financial players.
Then all the high paying / high-tech jobs were outsourced to India. (Oops!)
One of the problems in The Beltway is you are NEVER to admit you made a mistake so we are stuck with this crap.
Remember Republicans accusing Dems of having a "pre-9/11 mentality"? Well, we need a "pre-Reagan mentality". This would include the top tax rate of 70% and Democrats not using terms like "far left" as if they're terrified of being called commies for saying workers deserve a raise.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)i think that is a legit question that DJT and Sanders never actually answered.
a lot of the manufacturing jobs have been returning, but due to automation they are hiring 1/1000th of the people they used to.
a lot of white color jobs will also soon disappear due to automation.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)But automation means way fewer people are needed. And wages have been stagnant.
Jobs aren't coming back unless the US does away with labor standards, the minimum wage, etc.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,454 posts)Oh come on.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)INdemo
(7,020 posts)There have been 2 examples since the total ass kicking the Democrats just took.
With Pelosi and Chuck Schumer being elected as Democratic leaders in Congress Democrats are not seeking change at all
The total Dominance by the Republicans in 2014 should have convinced Democrats that hell yes we need cahnge but guess what not this time it ain't gonna happen.
So hell yes the Democratic party is flawed and the millennials tried very hard to convince the Democratic party we needed real change but they preferred the status quo.
Democrats fear change. They fear transferring the power to the young generation that have fresh ideas,and issues that directly affect them/
Understand this, When Obama won his first election he talked about "Change we can believe in" the first time voters here in 2016 were 10 years old then.For those that elected him they really believed him.
Oh yes Obama has done some great things but has he brought us real change? Obama and a Democratic Control Congress allowed Repukes to walk all over them and that brought about the huge ass kicking of 2014
Through Obama's efforts he saved our economy,he saved millions of jobs by saving GM.
He got a Health Care bill that was written by the Insurance lobbyists and Insurance companies where the biggest advantage is those with per-existing conditions now qualify..Other than that not much to brag about.
Well we were promised change as Obama started his 2nd term but the biggest change we really saw was TPP Trade Bill he was trying to force onto us that was/is a jobs killing bill.
So here are some reverences that might answer your question/s
How Stupid Has the Democratic Party Become?
http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/11/how-stupid-has-democratic-party-become
Harry Truman Quotes when he said something like "When Democrats at like Republicans they'll vote for the Republican every time"
How true was that in 2010 and 2014 and hell yes even 2016.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025769753
If the Democratic party would have had their act together like the Obama campaign team did in 2008 & 2012 we would not be having this discussion.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)And so few listened. Felt like every time one of us tried to explain how Hillary was Trump's only plausible path to the White House (based on polling and historical analysis), we were dismissed with gender- and race-charged attacks on our character. "Are you white?" and "Are you male?" was the standard attack line, insinuating that our (ultimately correct) analysis was based solely on our skin color and sex organs. It was disgusting.
If you don't change, Trump will have 60 senate seats after 2018 and will literally pass whatever he wants. This party is fatally flawed if it can't win over a man who openly brags of sexual assault, his hot daughter, mocking the disabled, calling war heroes cowards, etc.
Change or die. That's your choice. And end the cynical race and gender baiting in exchange for a unifying message of jobs, healthcare and affordable education. That's a winner. Steinem's infamous "Women vote Bernie because the boys do it" is, as we now see, a massive loser.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Affordable education"
Well said and bears repeating. The Democratic party needs a simplify and focus on big ideas like those you mention. If we do this we win big.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)ananda
(30,816 posts).. does not have the fire and the fight to take on the
Reeps in any efficient, meaningful way.
They have to turn into pugnacious pitbulls with claws
like snapping turtles that never give in or give up.
deurbano
(2,957 posts)and widely spread ugly right wing lies. My 14-year-old daughter said she got in an argument with two of her friends recently about the differences between Clinton and Trump... and the two kids, both children of "progressive" San Francisco parents, insisted Clinton was a corrupt criminal. When asked for "evidence," the only thing they could come up with was "email," and they didn't even have any details on that. Clinton had an avalanche of bullshit coming at her from both the right and the left, a media that regurgitated and dramatically amplified the slightest hint of a suggestion of whatever seemed like it might have a negative impact (even when eventually proven false), a corrupt FBI with a partisan agenda (this was a coup), Republican legislators using the power of their positions in Congress solely to bring down her approval ratings, massive voter suppression, racism and sexism, etc...
My point is some (obviously not all) of the people who see the party "falling apart" are the very ones who undermined her from the left. I voted for Sanders when he was running for governor of Vermont and I consider my perspective to be closer to his than Clinton's, but I voted for her in the primary because I grew to believe she was more prepared and would be more competent at the actual governing. I was glad the party platform was pushed to the left, but the delusional thinking that led too many to assume Sanders could still prevail at the convention (which I don't feel his campaign initially did enough to discourage) and the behavior by the CA delegation and other malcontents-- who even mimicked the Trump ass wipes by shouting "Lock her up!" (for what???!!!)-- contributed to the disastrous outcome of a very close election. (And the Democratic Party does not need the advice of people too deluded to see the Grand Canyon of a difference between Clinton and that... thing.)
JI7
(90,527 posts)hz-xlnc
(5 posts)used by the other side and we dont have anyone willing to counter them. the GOP moves openly in public with an anti-american agenda and the whole party needs an overhaul because for the last 30 years they have watched this fraud develop and in many cases assisted and participated in it
Gothmog
(154,486 posts)Over the long term the demographic trends are supporting the Democratic Party
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Party.
Conservatism is a human trait, not a white trait.
Another reason Democrats must appeal to all working and liberal people.
Beartracks
(13,565 posts)The whole Republicans-are-old-white-Christian-males thing is just too wishfully simplistic and ill-informed.
People that make blanket generalizations like that can't mount an effective counter-attack.
===========
betsuni
(27,255 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(120,846 posts)The Democratic Party has been getting its ass kicked in elections that it should have won.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)We have room for improvement but I think those who always want to go to the left or the center all the time do not really understand the Democratic Party.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Think about the Russian hacks.
The DNC did not take their cyber security serious. Every political party in this country should expect foreign entities to attempt to hack their servers and expose their secrets. I will also add that the emails showed a bias towards Hillary by DWS. What does Hillary and the DNC do? They get rid of Debbie as chair and Hillary gives her an honorary spot on her campaign. Not only did the emails show a bias, Hillary showed to be tone deaf to the masses that voted for Sanders.
Think about Comey.
What about Comey? Hillary is terrible at political judo. Bill gets impeached by the Senate and his approval rating skyrockets. In 2008 Hillary hits Obama with an inexperience campaign and Obama's crowds grow larger. A good politician knows how to deal with these situations.
Think Racism/Sexism.
It's the only battle she actually put up a front on, and even that was a halfhearted defense.
Cha
(305,407 posts)the glory away from Hillary.
Voter Suppression, Voter Purging, Yes Comey, Demonizing her in the Primary, drumpf picking up on the lying accusations, Russian hacking..
THE M$M MISOGYNIST ATTITUDE ON HILLARY AND DRAGGING THE GD EMAILS TO FUCKING DEATH WHILE GIVING THE SEXUAL PREDATOR A FUCKING PASS.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)They are the herpes of politics. They show up every few years (unfortunately, presidential election years) to remind us all why we were glad they were gone.
Response to boston bean (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
LexVegas
(6,576 posts)Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)by ugly rhetoric like 'Fuck the White Working Class'
boston bean
(36,491 posts)"fuck the white working class"!
LMAO.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Statements like this from Democratic leaders, while well-intentioned, don't help white Americans feel welcome in the Democratic Party:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/304589-granholm-dnc-doesnt-need-57-year-old-white-woman-at-helm
Former Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm said Sunday the Democratic National Committee needs a leader who represents "rising America," suggesting the committee appoint a minority to the position.
"I think that the DNC needs to have leadership that reflects this rising America and you know, a 57-year-old white woman may not be the person," she told MSNBC's Hallie Jackson.
As a 55 year old white American woman, I hear this and wonder if there is any place at all for me in the Democratic Party's vision of America.
As far as the "Fuck the White Working Class," it was the title of long lived thread on a website that is exclusive for Democrats and proudly reflects Democratic values.
boston bean
(36,491 posts)that you feel left out?
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)I come from a long line of white working class Americans. They are my people.
FSogol
(46,525 posts)It is pretty obvious.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Now we know why they're such disagreeable and friendless people.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Is that also a myth?
yodermon
(6,147 posts)This is the biggest reason Bernie is not a Democrat.
Why people don't see this, or gloss over it I will never understand.
Bernie proved you can raise money without Corporate donors.
And "Oh but he lost!" is such a pathetic head-in-the-sand response. He demonstrated a hunger and a trend in the electorate that Democrats should be keen to harness. I think Schumer understands this.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)Just sit back and wait. The jobs wont materialize, people will lose health care, and there will be a big fight over medicare. The voters will naturally swing back in four to eight years.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)We lost to the worst candidate in history.
We lost the Senate.
We lost the House.
We lost control of states.
We lost the Supreme Court.
This question is akin to believing nothing as wrong with your body as your organs shut down one by one.
rainy
(6,208 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,299 posts)Stop focusing so much on one office when we're getting our asses kicked across the country.
aikoaiko
(34,202 posts)Let's say you're correct that only those three things you mentioned cost us the GE
1. Regarding the hacked HRC Campaign emails: The Russian hacks revealed stupid and sketchy conversations by Clinton staff. That's a discipline issue and should have been controlled. It is elementary that anything you write in email can be exposed and used against you and your candidate. This was under our control and hubris led to poor decisions.
2. Regarding Comey: Weinergate gave Comey the opportunity to do what he did. People suggested that Huma rid herself of The Weiner because he could be used to take Huma or HRC down as early as 2011. We didn't make the hard decisions. Again, because of hubris, we failed to see The Weiner landmine.
3. Racism and Sexism: For the explicit racist and sexist, there is not much for a Democrat to do in a campaign, but for the many who simply were not bothered by Trump's racism and sexism because it doesn't affect them, they could be reached and we didn't do a good job of inspiring white people, especially white men to embrace social justice even if it doesn't impact them -- even if it hurts them in some ways. I, for one, was impressed with HRCs strategy of explicit social justice and how far it got her. It was a solid strategy in the primary and by October I was convinced it would work in the GE. HRC led with social justice and followed with a strong economic message, but it didn't resonate enough with white men and women.
I hope there is a message and messenger out there who can maintain the positive work that HRC has done to make social justice issues explicit and provide the two-fold message to white men and women that they can help achieve social justice and that their social and economic lives will improve.
jalan48
(14,393 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Kotya
(235 posts)What is it supposed to prove? Why am I being asked to retweet it?
Trump got 4.4 million votes in California, a state he lost 63-32%. He got 2.7 million votes in New York, a state he lost 60-37%
I see this graphic all over the place. I'm not sure what the point of it is.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Just read it and you know.
A subtext may have eluded you though. Trump said there were millions of illegal voters. Well, he said in effect that there were as many illegal voters as he had votes in a dozen states. This also illustrates how absurd his stupid lies are. It also needs to be seen by thepeople who are in denial aboutlosing the popular vote. they need to see how immense that loss is, what 2% of the vote looks like in terms of state sizes.
Crunchy Frog
(26,977 posts)My entire adult life, and it never seems to learn anything or adapt to changing circumstances.
They've been getting the crap beaten out of them for decades, and all they've done is triangulate, capitulate, apologize for themselves, and go along to get along.
Our party has sat and watched as the rethugs have amassed ever greater power, brazenly stolen elections, lied us into wars, and have become more brazen and daring with each cycle.
The party has refused to recognize or acknowledge changes in the political landscape, and has continued to run campaigns that take the new political realities into consideration.
Now our party has snached defeat out of the arms of victory, and handed this country over to Donald Trump on a silver platter.
The Rethugs may now be in a position to solidify their hold on power indefinitely, stacking courts and creating institutions that will ensure never attain power in this country again. They may soon control enough states to begin remaking the Constitution.
You're damn right I think the party is fatally flawed.
Just keep telling yourself everything's fine, though. See how it works out for you.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)Flawed in terms of serving the people. Winning elections doesn't make them good. The Republican Party seems to be stocked full of the baddest of the bad people. Democrats worse trait is not doing a good job of making it clear to the public how they are being played by the Republicans. I guess they have a hard time with that because Republicans have control over a lot of media outlets. I think the Dems need to do something to shine a flood light on the truth. They need to catch the Republicans knee deep in some wicked shit and then tell the world about it.
Cha
(305,407 posts)with reality.