Looking for a scapegoat for Hillary's loss, I'd guess.

Do so, then you will get my point.

All these Hillary bashing posts and now people are like, what are you posting this for???

Love ya

There is going to be a lot of Hillary bashing, back seat campaigning and what ifs. It is just what it is.

What the Democratic party needs to do is carefully assess everything, including errors by the candidate, her campaign and the DNC, regardless of whose feathers might be ruffled. There were many factors contributing to this loss, not the least of which was their apparent failure to notice that Trump was making inroads in areas that were once Democratic strongholds. About the only person who noticed there was a problem and predicted the Trump win was Michael Moore, who was dismissed as a crackpot, both by us on DU and by the Dem PTBs.

Hillary had been the subject of all kinds of right-wing crap for years, and the crap was unfair and untrue, but she didn't address it and didn't defend herself. It reminded me of Kerry and the Swiftboat assholes - he and his campaign chose to ignore the falsehoods and hope they'd go away, instead of addressing them head-on - a terrible mistake, because it let the GOP demean his military service with no rebuttal. Why didn't Hillary talk about the fact that eight Benghazi hearings revealed no wrongdoing on her part, for example? I don't know how much effect this would have made, but her campaign spent most of its energy beating up on Trump, apparently not noticing that what we liberals regarded as faults were actually things the right-wingers liked. They liked the bragging and the insults and the threats because they thought it was proof he was "strong." He conned them into believing he would do something positive for them, while Hillary failed to come up with a message that would resonate with at least some potential Trump voters (some were obviously unreachable). Why did she ignore Wisconsin? She just barely won Minnesota, for pete's sake! These errors can't be blamed on Bernie.

The Democratic Party leaders have been living in a bubble. They need to take a very hard, objective look at why they keep losing elections that they should have won in a walk.

1992 DEMOCRAT elected
1996 DEMOCRAT elected
2000 Highly questionable result - DEMOCRAT had more votes
2004 bush reelected
2008 DEMOCRAT elected
2012 DEMOCRAT elected
2016 Highly questionable result - DEMOCRAT had more votes

So, in the last seven Presidential elections, Democrats got more votes in six of them, winning four and two questionable losses.

... but I have to respectfully disagree.

HRC was running a presidential campaign, not an apology tour. She focused on her ideas for the future of the country, not on the shit that's been thrown at her for the past thirty years.

Had she persisted in defending herself against those attacks, we'd be hearing about how she was more interested in defending her own past than in what the nation needed to move forward.

I've been reading the postmortem analyses here and elsewhere. Everyone is convinced that they know what she did wrong - and yet they are often completely contradictory, e.g. she was too aggressive - she wasn't aggressive enough. She was too focused on Trump's negatives - she didn't go after Trump's negatives hard enough, etc.

Given that HRC won more votes than Trump, it is apparent that she HAD a message, and it resonated with the majority of voters. Had she lost the popular vote, this would be a completely different conversation.

HRC lost because too many of her voters lived in the "wrong states", which diminished the power of their votes, while giving greater weight to the votes of those who happened to live elsewhere.

My personal take? Far too often, Democrats lose elections because they're honest. They don't tell coal miners that they're going to bring their jobs back - they tell them the truth, that the coal industry is a dying industry. They don't promise factory workers that they can "make" companies who have relocated to low-wage countries reopen their factories in the States, when they know damned well they can't. They don't tell voters not to worry about climate change because it's all a hoax - they remind voters of the "inconvenient truths" about what's happening, instead of telling them to relax and laugh it off. They don't tell voters that if all Muslims are kept out of the country, they'll never have to fear another terrorist attack on US soil.

Trump (as is the wont of Republican politicians) simply said the things that voters desperately want to hear. In the end, whether his statements were based on facts and reality was, for many, completely irrelevant.

Vote in haste, repent in leisure. And over the next four years, there will be a LOT of people repenting the fact that they voted based on the charm of a snake-oil salesman, instead of voting for the people who have told them the unvarnished truth.

Fox, RW radio, Brietbart, Freeper sell a certain mindset an alternate reality they wish to believe and they listen/hear little outside out it. Trump picked up on it, ran for Pres. and to his amazement, and that of many others - he won.

We best get our act together for 2018.

So true and so sad.

Note to self: don't have Admin options open while browsing DU on an iPhone first thing in the morning.

Fortunately it's rare for a mistake like this to occur (in fact I can't recall another instance when I've done this) but I'm going to ask Elad to look into programming a safeguard to make sure it can't happen again.

I've written to Duckhunter to apologize for deleting the post; this public message is to let everyone else know that I did it by accident. Duckhunter will not be penalized for it.

EarlG (Admin)

Coffee has been consumed

Tho for now, rage on.

I voted proudly for Bernie, and my Hillary vote was against the facist Trump.

I'm angry as hell too for different reasons.

But come Jan 20th, I hope we all put hurt feelings aside and unify.

They have more class....

Just sayin'

If not you sure have a funny way of showing it.

Enough already.

You seem to have an issue with discussions. Care to expand on that?

I sure hope you are not telling me I have no voice here.

the national election.

Actually she one the popular vote be 2.5 million. See the difference?

That unfortunately is a fact you fail to accept.

Lost bigly.

Lost big time.

IS NOT what puts one into the Whitehouse.

That says a lot

Voter Purges, The FBI-Comey, the Russian Hacking, WikifuckingLeaks, the US M$M Spewing on her damn emails and PIMPING up drumpfuck.. against her.

Oh and the greens for stein who got themselves a climate change denier in the WH.. fucking geniuses.

And, she still got 65 millions Votes and 2.5 Million more than trump.

Cripes cripes cripes

Bernie is the conscience of a generation.

Never vetted and the GOP had a whole book to throw at him had he won.

Please explain how Hillary came out dirty.

because he doesn't do that "disgusting" thing of sitting down to pee.

Front to back? What type of qualified (xy chromosome) candidate does that?

It's just a dangle.

Bernie was never really vetted by the MSM, and now it's emerging that IF he had won the Dem nomination, Bannon the Nazi was going to amongst other things:

Label and Call Bernie a pedophile 24/7 because he voted against the Amber Alert which outlaws some form of child pornography. The Nazi was also going to allegedly label him a rapist and also publish parts of that 1972 essay Bernie wrote on a daily basis where Bernie took a very strange view (IMHO) on women and their sexuality. You can just SEE the commercials and hear Mango Mussolini going around on $2 Billion dollars worth of FREE air time bashing and projecting onto Bernie that HE was a pedophile and rapist (The same man who said it was okay to call his daughter a "piece of ass" and who wanted to bang that same daughter if she wasn't his daughter). Would have been vicious, and the so-called Liberal media that doesn't exist would have eaten it up--following the sex angle--and Bernie would have been having to explain that vote and his essay away almost daily because there are many people who don't know a great deal about him. I believe it's all the media would have focused ON.

Most in the so-called Liberal Media that doesn't exist did say during the campaign that since tRump told so many lies that they couldn't be BOTHERED to correct most or even some of his lies.

If she was so experienced, she should have been ready for any last minute dirty tricks by the GOP, but she was not.

She was a terrible campaigner in 2008 and she did not change in 2016.

Hillary could have been Presidents FDR, John Kennedy and Barack Obama rolled into one and she'd have still lost given the fact that there was so much hatred, racism, sexism, low-info voters voting for tRump and his racist rants/lies, hatred of a black Pres. for 8 years, voter suppression/voter disenfranchisement and what in MY estimation was election "shenanigans" pulled off by the Russians.

No, there was definitely more to Hillary losing than her being a "terrible" campaigner. She must not have been that terrible, because she got almost 3 million more popular votes than that racist POS tRump, for whatever it's worth.

I hear constantly that Bernie could have beaten tRump easily and that he had almost zero negative. Bernie was going to be savaged if he'd have been the Dem nominee by that fat, woman-abusing, Nazi Bannon who was not only going to continually throw out the I'm a Socialist/He's a commie/Castro-lover crap at him, the 25 year DC insider garbage, but I read that the centerpiece of his bile against Bernie was going to consist of crafting him into a pedophile (Per his no vote against Amber Alert) and a rapist (Per Bernie's own thought's about women and their sexuality per his 1972 essay) 24/7 along with tRump who loves projecting his Samsonite onto others, and we KNOW that he controlled the media to the tune of $2 Billion dollars worth of FREE air time, and if that wasn't bad enough, Bannon was going to subtly and not so subtly go after Bernie being Jewish (We know anti-Semitism is still very much alive and well). On top of that, the liberal media that doesn't exist said that it wasn't their job to correct all of tRump's lies/vulgarity which were spewed by him 70% of the time. Not a lot of people knew that much about Bernie, and I'm sure the low-info and racist voters would have eaten that mess up about Bernie. Pretty sure Bernie's negatives would have gone up, especially with the "Throw the crap against the wall and let's see what sticks" campaign of Bannon against him.

IMHO, NO Dem would have won the presidency in this election climate.

Yet he did.

You can delude yourself with blaming others for Hillary's problems, bu Hillary's problems were always Hillary's problems. She was the worse type of candidate to run this year or any year.

this wholesome Kansan family, carefully featured in certain parts of this country -

I am so stealing that!

And that's what matters in the end.

It sucks and is blatantly false, but that's the way, for many reasons, it played out.

I'm not saying you didn't but still...

Gawd I hope we unify by Jan 20!

Bernie is more powerful now than when he started in the primaries.

The most important thing in the world! Weeh! Glad we have the platform! Yay! Let's give it to all the people are gonna suffer with the fascist Tr*mp!!

lol

Please provide the links where you have slapped them on the wrist for continuing the primary. FYI, I don't own this site Skinner does. He set this site up to rehash the primary. I don't agree with that, yet it is here.

Wonder what Hillary will end up doing. Maybe she'll go the Carter-esque route of getting involved with something like Habitat for Humanity. We've been told ad nauseam that Hillary cares deeply about POC. Perhaps voter suppression and racial inequality would be good causes for her to tackle.

to help eradicate Guinea worm disease, like Carter. But she'll do more than drink and play golf, like Dubya.

Your condescending musings about her life sound like those from that Hillary hating site where they speculate on virtually everything she does even behind closed doors. How crazy is it to conjure up what Hillary does to that extent and, of course, it's always petty and unflattering. It would be like me speculating that Bernie is spending time mooching electricity from his neighbors in his free time since there were stories of how he stole electricity from his neighbors at one time. How petty, though. I can't imagine spending my time coming up with petty musings about what Bernie does in his free time.

Their huge presence in Africa is well known.

That does some excellent work throughout the world.

that he praised in his remarks on Trump.

He'll also be fighting for survival in 2018 when the Democrats run an actual Democrat for the senate seat he has been warming so skillfully for so long.

As for Hillary, you're absolutely right that she should work on problems of racial inequality. Kurt Eichenwald wrote a wonderful article that exposes the fact that a sitting US senator is engaged in environmental racism for profit. One of the senator's relatives actually draws a paycheck for a no show job that is part of the scheme. We need to get to the bottom of that.

We'll see what he and the Democrats can negotiate, if it even comes to that.

Vermonters have sent Bernie to Washington for 25 years, not giving a rat's ass about the letter after his name. As far as Al Giordano, I'll quote a Kossack:

if they moved forward on a $10 an hour minimum wage. Earlier in his remarks, the firey progressive actually used the word "ally" to describe his potential relationship with the Republican president-elect.

My goodness, that was fast.

“He (Trump) talked about raising the minimum wage to $10,” Sanders said. “That’s not high enough for me, but it’s better than $7.25 an hour, and we look forward to working with him to raise the minimum wage.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2016/1117/Sen.-Bernie-Sanders-It-s-time-for-Democratic-soul-searching

He's not a dictator!/!!!!1111

Where, oh where, have I heard that?

Per the link you so helpfully provided, Senator Sanders wants to:

1) "Fix" the badly broken Democratic Party. (How many more elections do we need to lose before people admit there's a problem? In 2017, Republicans fully controlling an all-time high of 32 states isn't enough, eh?)

2) Help those Americans left behind by a changing economy; help a middle class in decline; and address income and wealth inequality.

3) Give racist/sexist Bannon the heave-ho.

4) Reinstate Glass-Steagall.

5) Protect Social Security and Medicare.

6) Raise the minimum wage.

7) Address the issue of soaring prescription drug costs.

And anyone one who wants to "fix" the Democratic party should actually join it.

Of course I have issues with third party voters and clueless iconoclasts being the unwitting dupes of Republicans in ensuring a Trump victory and making the rest of us settle for crumbs when we could have had the Democratic platform.

You bet that we have issues with those who helped put Trump in the White House out of self-interested narcissism. What's amazing is that they think they have any credibility or claim to rightness. People who played for the other team need to learn to live with the blame and contempt of the 65,000,000 people who had counted on them to do the right thing for the common good.

And those are just a few of the reasons why ignore is my friend.

This goes much, much deeper than Hillary v. Bernie v. Trump. It isn't just one election; it's been building for decades. If you can't grasp that, get out of the way so the rest of us who do can attempt to rebuild the party. And if you see "narcissism" in the above list, you're too far gone to reason with.

By all means, use ignore. Enjoy the echo chamber.

*Hon.*

People of color with HIV AIDS

From fighting the primary all over again?

OP seems okay

She reached out to all the people. She would have been President to all the people.

Hug~

Primaries are done.

enough voters.

I love you.

They've been trying to say BS would have won the GE.. but, he couldn't even get out of the Primary gate with his message.

Hillary did no Oppo research on him but he threw every ugly thing he could at her right along with the m$m and she still won.

dump would have thrown the book at BS.. and I've read it was devastating.

Hillary lost in part because of all this crap he started and drilled into his fans.. I know this from talking to them in real life. They couldn't get past the dirty buzz words like "establishment".. geniuses had to vote for stein to enable a climate change denier into the WH. brilliant.

The fbi, m$m, Russian hacking, wikileaks, voter suppression, voter purge, & the gd lies about her made sure she didn't get to be the President. She would have made a great one.

One that pisses me off the most was "ESTABLISHMENT"!

He called Planned Parenthood the establishment. How effed up is that. Women are people that deserve healthcare as well. I guess he never cared about us all that much.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Four years later, Carter lost to Reagan by 10%.

In fact, 25% of US presidents had failed primaries before winning the Presidency.

Just because Bernie lost to Clinton does NOT means he would have lost to Trump.[/font]

guaranteeing 8 years of trump.

Lol~ I saw all your posts the other night. Us?

I've seen you're posts as well. Same, same.

Same, same.