.......................

keep working.

Nicely put.

all these principles that I want for my country.

The Democratic Party has a brilliant platform.. I can see that. I don't need to be wined and dined and make them beg me for votes.

I do it for my country and our Planet.. too many were selfishly thinking about their feefees.

I don't need flowers, candlelight or wine. I do not need to have sweet things whispered in my ear. I know who the Democrats stand for. No need to sell me anything, I have been with this party my whole life. Me, In vote for the Democratic candidate every time.

Thanks Nance.

Failure to do so leads to...
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...unless and until you start standing for what Republicans stand for in order to get votes - they've got mine too

The leaders?
That's a different story.
Unlike our President I'm unable to normalize this transfer to a corporate fascist state.

I can read and will walk my fingers over the keyboard and read for myself the issues the democratic candidates propose without having it relayed to me in cutesy fashion via ads or rallies.

Can't fault her in that respect. I can't recall a single Trump ad.

Although some seem to think she had no positive ones.

In other words, posting for to Facebook.

When Democrats have at least six years of full power -- the presidency, super-majorities in both Congress and Senate and a majority of states -- and if they then govern just like Republicans, then and only then will I pay any attention to all the mindless false equivalency Democrat-bashing and whining.

Well said!

The second the candidate becomes Blue Dog/Republican Lite, you can kiss my ass! IF I wanted Republicans, I'd vote for them!

They were your words - do you not know what they mean?

Sorry. I won't take the flamebait, but I will report your personal attack and accusing someone of being a Republican on this message board.

But what you assumed I was saying triggered a very interesting response.

But you said everything.

As long as the Democrats are Democrats, I don't mind being taken for granted. Nothing would require the word "do" in your respond, as do is an active verb.

- "If they turn Blue Dog/Republican lite, they can kiss my ass" - again, using the verb do wouldn't work here because it is awkward an stilted English.

- "If I wanted Republicans, I'd vote Republican" - this is the only sentence where you can use the word "do" in a response.

I have seen you do this to many people here. You flamebait, instigate and gaslight them with passive-aggressive statement, then walk away says "I said nothing." That is PA cyber-bullying and you have done it many, many times.

I refuse to get into this game with you because I don't know you and am not going to waste my bandwidth or emotional energy on a gaslighter. I will just bid you a nice life and block you permanently.

... put down the shovel while the grave was still shallow enough to climb out of.

I agree with everything you said in all of your posts.

Calling out a cyber-bully's gaslighting takes a lot.

Calling out any bully is hard.

... what you're talking about. It looks like you're the one trying to be coy.

"IF I wanted Republicans, I'd vote for them!"

Simply taking the poster at his word. I'm sure that IF he wants Republicans, he would vote for them.

And I'm not interested in playing.

You might want to be careful about who you accuse of lacking integrity. if you have something to add to the conversation about being a Democrat then do it.

You're definitely not allowed to do that. It's a clear violation of the TOS.

on wrecking the social structure that fostered the middle class. They want a two tiered system of lords and serfs, with little to no chance of the lower strata digging themselves out of the hole.
The unwitting dupes who work for low wages heard Herr Trump say he would make America great again. Their brains processed it as making them great again.
Herr Trump, aided and abetted by Pox News and hate radio, convinced them he was the one who had magical power to bring us back to 1950 or worse, the Gilded Age. History reports that in 1933 Germany a guy named "You Know Who" promised to make Germany great again.
Democrats are the glue that uses reason, logic, compassion and empathy to hold our society together.
Not all Republicans are bigots but all bigots support ......................

I will do what is right, every TWO years (not four).

This quote from the OP is really great

You speak for me.

new member of the DNC, it didn't bother me at all that he didn't "pay his dues and work his way up the party chain." I recognized in him a fellow socialist small d democrat. I could see from his record that he would fight for me, so I caucused for him. And when Bernie said our best chance for progressive interests was to vote for Hillary, I did that, and then I voted for the rest of the Dems on the ticket. But if I research the candidates and find a Dino running, I think long and hard before checking that name. No free passes just for a capital D.

Back in 2010, had a Blue Dog rep I despised. Never voted with Obama for one single thing. Begged him to throw us a bone.

Martha Roby (R) campaigned against him. I thought what the hell could she nail him on?

Her campaign attack was that he voted for Nancy Pelosi for Speaker. She won. You all saw her being vile and nasty to Hillary late in the 11 1/2 hour day of testimony.

Now, it dawns on me just how important that Pelosi vote was!

And I wish I never turned my back on that DINO!

Thanks Nance; can't think of a single thing to add; you said it all.

You have literally asked them to metaphorically "send (you) flowers" and "sing (you) love songs" for your vote, but keep saying how those same things aren't necessary for your vote. It's in all the things you say you want/need to keep pulling the lever for them. I voted straight ticket for D in this election, but would love to have the Ds keep sending flowers and songs. It makes me feel as if they are actually listening. The very concept that you would even hypothetically tell TPTB to take you for granted is nauseating, to say the least.

and things will much much different next time - much worse

which is why this side LOST

Perhaps it was because a football player didn't stand for an anthem.

reminds me of a page from George Orwell's book 'Animal Farm'. All the pigs had to do, whenever the other animals questioned them about anything, is to say that it's either them or the dreaded and hated 'Farmer Jones'


The mystery of where the milk went to was soon cleared up. It was mixed
every day into the pigs' mash. The early apples were now ripening, and the grass
of the orchard was littered with windfalls. The animals had assumed as a matter
of course that these would be shared out equally; one day, however, the order
went forth that all the windfalls were to be collected and brought to the harness-
room for the use of the pigs. At this some of the other animals murmured, but
it was no use. All the pigs were in full agreement on this point, even Snowball
and Napoleon. Squealer was sent to make the necessary explanations to the
others.
`Comrades!' he cried. `You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing
this in a spirit of sel shness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk
and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is
to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science,
comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig.
We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm
depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your
sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples. Do you know what would
happen if we pigs failed in our duty? Jones would come back! Yes, Jones would
come back! Surely, comrades,' cried Squealer almost pleadingly, skipping from
side to side and whisking his tail, `surely there is no one among you who wants
to see Jones come back?'
Now if there was one thing that the animals were completely certain of, it
was that they did not want Jones back. When it was put to them in this light,
they had no more to say. The importance of keeping the pigs in good health
was all too obvious. So it was agreed without further argument that the milk
and the windfall apples (and also the main crop of apples when they ripened)
should be reserved for the pigs alone.

before any of these candidates, and the vast majority of us, were born

this stuff is nothing new, and our guard can never be dropped from the dangers of accepting this sort of thing

his supporters would post threads asking Hillary supporters to give them reasons why they should vote for Hillary. Seriously. Those people were that blinded by the hatred for her that they couldn't even remember those issues that the democratic party fights for. Issues that she fights for. You just have to draw a picture for some people I guess.

to marginalized groups, which is why until recently we didn't hear a peep out of the Senate or Congress about the Dakota Access Pipeline. Either you push your politicians to do stuff that is needed, or there is a very real chance they will take the path of least resistance to guarantee their next election bid.

They thank you for making it easy for them. Have some pandering.


P.S. it's actually scary to me how many people are in total solidarity with this post.

... to fight amongst ourselves, to push for what we want, etc. But when it comes down to the (R) or the (D) for POTUS, I'll vote Democrat every time.

Anyone who looked at HRC and Trump, and still had to be had to be convinced to vote for her over him - or be cajoled into voting at all - I have no respect for.

The people who are in solidarity with this post understand that concept.

actually have to do shit for your vote respect you tremendously.

And you aren't saying "I voted for Clinton because she offered something that I believed in, and is way better than Trump." You are saying, literally, "As long as you are better than the Republicans, take my vote for granted." Do you understand just how bad the republican party is getting? So long as we stay to the left of THEIR crazy, we are golden?

We are the custodians for our party. Our leaders will only ever reflect what we want if we demand it of them. Either we do our job or other forces will determine their priorities.

... is that "politicians don't have to do shit in order to get my vote", you have apparently missed the point entirely.

Democrats fight amongst themselves on a daily basis - and that's as it should be.

But when a GE comes down to HRC or Trump, the REAL fight is making sure that the idiot doesn't wind up in the WH.

Voting for Trump, voting third party, or not voting at all is not an option if you care about where the country is headed over the next four years.

Whether democrats are actually fighting for those things you mentioned though, is a very fair question to ask. Paying better lip service to those issues in order to give people a political voting "choice" is not good enough. Continuing to not tackle the systems that make divide-and-conquer politics so effective in this country is not actually fighting for these causes, it is only using them.

There are legitimate reasons to be cynical about our two-party system, and to sometimes feel like we are presented with an illusion of choice. Race baiting and poor bashing will always be powerful tools if we don't start telling people where they really need to look as the source of their economic insecurity.

For the record, I think Democrats in office are generally well meaning. But if they aren't pushed from the outside to do things that are politically inconvenient to them, they just won't do them. If Sanders hadn't run against Clinton AND pushed to the convention, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have heard her say that for-profit prisons shouldn't exist. In 2015 she was still accepting donations from that industry. Tell me a monetization of the prison system is good for minorities, who are already disproportionately charged and convicted in our fucked criminal justice system.

The point is, no, there is no point where they should take our votes for granted. There are only points where our voting power most influences their platforms and policies.

Sorry about the feel the buzzkill posters. They seem to be showing up in hordes, two or three in succession (subtle move!) trying to convince voting Democrats that the third party/no show bitter knitters didn't actually help to elect Trump, and even if they did, they didn't really mean to, so it doesn't really count, and let's rebuild the party that we don't belong to, and then when we're done...

"Hey kids! Let's put on a show in the barn!"

They seemed to be stunned by the the contempt of the 65,000,000. Just wait until historians start examining their motives.

I've learned that some people didn't get off their asses and vote because they didn't feel "inspired" or "excited" enough.

Some people voted third party because their candidate-of-choice wasn't the nominee.

Some people didn't vote for HRC because she didn't campaign in their area.

Some people didn't vote because they wanted to "send the Dem Party a message" - and who they think got that message, given no one knows if or how they voted anyway, is beyond me.

Some people didn't vote because "both parties are the same anyway".

Some people voted for Trump because they're pissed-off at HRC, the DNC, or DWS, or (list personal complaint here).

Given the outcome of the popular vote, the "loss" is attributable to the EC. The MAJORITY of voters chose HRC as their president - despite those who sat on their asses on election night, or voted Trump or third party out of spite.

Keep acting dismissive of their complaints and let's see what 2020 brings us.

... to be legitimate complaints that should be addressed, you're part of a much bigger problem.

Are you suggesting that every candidate should make campaign appearances in every city, town, rural area so that no one can use the "I didn't vote because they didn't campaign in my area" excuse? In a country of 300 million, I guess we'll have to expand the campaign by several years so that everyone gets covered.

Should Bernie have been the nominee, even though HRC clearly won the primaries by a wide margin, so that Bernie-or-Buster types wouldn't have voted third party?

Maybe a candidate should just fire anyone and everyone some people express a dislike for - so we don't have to listen to the "I hate so-and-so, and I didn't vote because they weren't ousted" whinging.

All elections have consequences, far-reaching consequences - and that was especially true this time around. Anyone who contributed to Trump's election because they voted for him, voted third party, or stayed home OWNS every disaster he will bring about.

If the reality of a Trump administration wasn't enough to "inspire" the whiners to ensure he DIDN'T win and to vote accordingly, maybe they should examine their own selfish motives rather than blame HRC's "loss" on absolute bullshit.

Hillary won the MAJORITY of votes. The MAJORITY of the citizenry chose her as their next president - despite the perpetually pissed-off butt-hurt who sat on their asses for reasons as ridiculous as "she didn't excite me enough".

Well, maybe they'll find pResident Trump "exciting" when people start losing their jobs, their homes, their healthcare, and their rights. Maybe they'll feel "inspired" when the cabinet is comprised of RW assholes, and the Supreme Court is populated with Scalias. Maybe they'll feel "motivated" when every progressive achievement under Obama is diluted, overturned, and/or destroyed.

When that happens - and it will - I wonder how the "I didn't vote for Hillary because she didn't campaign in my town" folks will feel. I have a feeling they won't look back on it as being such a good idea.

My parents always told me count my blessings, be grateful for what I have or I will lose it.

Make the Democrats great again

I grew up politically in 2000.

Scary stuff.

... are the people who voted third party, or abstained from voting at all, because they needed to be "excited" or "inspired" to vote for HRC over an idiot.

If you want to see a "cult" in action, visit sites like JPR - where posters refused to vote for a Dem because their idol lost the primaries, or a RW site where posters are talking about how Trump was "chosen by God" to lead the nation.

Democrats, by and large, are realists. They looked at HRC and looked at Trump, and realized immediately which of the two would be the better POTUS.

It's not healthy.

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, Dems fight each other tooth-and-nail every day.

But when a GE comes down to the wire, where either HRC or Trump is going to occupy the WH for the next four years, you base your vote on THAT ALONE - and not on whether HRC didn't campaign in your town, or whether you think Bernie should have been the nominee, or whether you felt "excited" or not.

FFS, this is the presidency we're talking about here. Choosing between a qualified candidate who stands up for things like affordable healthcare and education, raising the minimum wage, inclusion of all Americans, fairer voting practices, etc. and an inexperienced dope who is more concerned about what SNL has to say about him than he is getting daily briefings on international affairs is NOT a matter of "blind loyalty" - it's a matter of common fuckin' sense.