2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAny postmortem without the mention of Comey, voter suppression and Russia being MAJOR factors ...
... that were a part of Clinton's loss is bout damn useless at this point no?
Comey, Voter Suppression and Russia were the well DOCUMENTED and AGREED upon outside factors regarding this election... THERE'S NO GUESSING ABOUT THEM.... and ignoring them, relative to post election facts, seems to try and give people a false sense of self control and isn't going after something that will truly change future elections.
Even if we agree this outside factors played little part (which I don't agree with that) the fact that the played ANY ... ANY part is fuckin HORRIBLE and should be part of any post analysis.
Facts that aren't in dispute
- If heads of federal agencies are allowed to effect elections (whether for or against DNC) to ANY degree by intimating one of the candidates are being invesitgated for something ... 11 DAYS.. before a general election and while people are early voting then this should be a major part of post election analysis.
- If Voter suppression is allowed in key states, including kicking people off the voter rolls without voters knowing it via some list, then it should be part and mention of any post election analysis
- If outside actor states are allowed to act in benefit of one candidate or the other (no matter who the candidate is) then these factor should be a salient part of any analysis.
Seems like all this "Clinton is ... Bernie is... DNC is... " without a focus on these factors is a distraction
Your take?
tia
P.S. These factors are NOT CONSPIRACY THEORY CRAP (what for the LPC member FUD on this issue) the aforementioned factors are well documented and agreed upon even by Fuck Mouth (his mentioning of one of two of them in Time Magazine)
P.S.S - Voter Suppression ... IS .... IS ... a FORM of election fraud period end of story... that's also a fact not in dispute
JHan
(10,173 posts)some can't and going with the "democrats have shut their doors to working people" narrative because it suits their agenda...
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)... progressive than Fuck Mouths
progressoid
(50,747 posts)R B Garr
(17,377 posts)uponit7771
(91,756 posts)blm
(113,820 posts)in any state by every citizen?
Botany
(72,481 posts)This was a coup.
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)Botany
(72,481 posts)they were modern day Joe McCarthy hearings .... republicans are political terrorists
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)... going to be lax about responses to GOP bullshit.
Just saying its wrong doesn't get the proper narrative and attention, I'm think there should be a fake news sights against the GOP so we can get the word out
Tanuki
(15,313 posts)helped chart the course of his career. Cohn was Joe McCarthy's chief counsel at the infamous hearings.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/politics/donald-trump-roy-cohn.html
Botany
(72,481 posts)..... had no chance of being President.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,903 posts)Absent those factors we could be having discussions regarding campaign strategies, likeability, etc. Given these factors actually exist, other forms of speculation are essentially worthless in my opinion.
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)... by showing mostly white people being disenfranchised by their voter suppression efforts.
That would be slick
Cha
(305,406 posts)dhill926
(16,953 posts)but the assholes control the narrative...
NRaleighLiberal
(60,500 posts)One Hillary's email non-event was more important than dozens and dozens of Trump's far more serious issues.
The media either got played, or played all who watched. Either way, it worked.
Aimee in OKC
(160 posts)"According to the University of Southern California (USC) study, the 2016 US Presidential election has been influenced by chatbots interacting with social media, also called social bots.
The study concluded that 19% of the 20 million Tweets in a five week period just prior to the election were created by social bots."
http://techseen.com/2016/11/08/age-chatbots/
* * *
So, from Oct. - Nov., about 3,800,000 Tweets were by chatbots.
A Russian chatbot actually passed the Turing Test in 2014. {See the techseen.com article.}
And we know, officially, Russia interfered with our election.
The KGB (of whom Putin was one) were masters of deception, misdirection, and sowing of dissent among allies. "Divide and conquer" has been a valid strategy since before the Romans used it.
* * * * * * *
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512643651#post89
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)... issue emails than all the issues combined
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)But she won the popular vote by like 2.5 million+ votes. Two things that don't seem to make sense when put together
brush
(57,499 posts)uponit7771
(91,756 posts)... of an election.
Look at the 10 "swing" states... how many of them have implemented VS measures
KPN
(16,101 posts)fielding a vulnerable candidate to that list!
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)take down Dems, and treat them as a lesser party. Republicans get away with everything, pretty much. Dems not so much.
Justice
(7,198 posts)uponit7771
(91,756 posts)KPN
(16,101 posts)I'm not saying Hillary shouldn't have won or that any of the other factors didn't affect the outcome, but she was always vulnerable, including among democrats and independents.
niyad
(119,917 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Up the email server in the first place. Yes Powell did something similar, but Clinton should have known how it would look, especially given the preexisting reputation the Clintons have.
Yes Republicans would have gone after after her after her on something, but things like Benghazi didn't stick. Without the email server, Comey wouldn't have had anything to investigate.
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)... server isn't opinion either but as part of a MAJOR factor relative to what Comey did its not even close.
Clinton's email server infraction was solved as a non crime ... Comey's letter has NOT been solved as a non crime, was sent out 11 days before a national election against agency rules and BOTH side agree that it played some part... how big of a part is in dispute and doesn't matter ... that it played a part means its fucking disgusting in and of itself.
Comey's memo sets a horrible precedence now; any agency head can now just say they're investigating a candidate days before an election and point to Comey as a reason why the shouldn't be prosecuted.
also
Clinton's server is not a agreed upon factor of fact that affected the election but many would say its the M$M covering it 3x more than any other issue being a factor... so email server is a factor that IS in dispute.
SunSeeker
(53,657 posts)It came out of his investigation of Weiner, not Hillary. He didn't event see the emails before sending out those letters. He would have figured out a way to violate the Hatch Act based on some other Trumped up bullshit if not the emails.
And if Bernie was the nominee, Comey would have investigated the loan Sanders' wife procured that ended up tanking her Vermont college...or some other thing. Republicans always find something and play it up.
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)... the dispute is how much of a factor it played.
Liberal In Red State
(458 posts)losing elections in the future.
uponit7771
(91,756 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)are the noise she and her team were supposed to be able to mitigate by being professionals.