... Mouth seems like a hard switch.

Seems like polls (yeah, I know "polls&quot are showing HRC winning the < 50,000 income vote and concern about the economy vote and Anal Lips wining the Terrorism and immigration vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls

I don't for a minute believe these were ever "Obama Democrats."

It is just a bullshit narrative.

Why didn't Hillary think of that?

Fucking liberal elites...

A "billionaire" swoops in on a private jet - and now they switch parties and vote for a racist, sexist pig?

It has to be the hat.

be more important to understand if one wants to make sure these voters will vote Democrat again next time.

rejected Hillary and the Democratic Party and voted for Corrupt Trump.

What kind of freakin' Democrats are these?

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt suggesting they really liked the ball cap.

Nothing they have to say is of any importance to me.

I understand that it is upsetting but if we are going to win in 2020 we most likely need these voters back.

did not vote for Corrupt Trump.

I do not believe the Democratic Party has any need to tailor any kind of message to any racist, sexist pig voters.

The rest they don't care about,

That they could not see through dumpster is was is really sad... for than and all of us.

we laughed at them here, mocked the Trump campaign for spending more on caps than polls in the last couple weeks, but in hindsight Michael Moore nailed it: the people who went to the Trump rallies and left with ball caps got something in their hand and later their closet that served as a reminder of their discontent, their pledge of trumplegiance, and their intent to vote.

i'm not laughing anymore.

Was spot on about so many things that people laughed at or ignored. The hats were tangible and concrete. Hillary focused a great deal on abstracts. That is not what everyone was looking for. It's like Trump threw people a bone and they settled for it.

Half of the population didn't bother to vote. THAT is where the emphasis should be, not on racist, sexist, xenophobic assholes.

I can believe it flipped to Trump. My brother and SIL hated Bush, voted for Obama twice, but supported Trump. They both work in a hospital and own a small ice cream shop.

One comment my brother made to me was his concern about the expenses related to shootings which occur in urban Youngstown. He laid out how much one of these costs with how the entire amount is picked up by the taxpayers. He was also concerned about the government mandated expenses related to his ice cream shop.

There does seem to be some issues where the Democrats might want to hone their message.

Small business is very difficult especially for the mom & pop types and there are many businesses like this across the country.

Hopefully we can win these voters back in the years to come...

Social Democracies in Europe like Germany. The last time I checked healthcare was supported by a 7.5%/7.5% split between employer and employee. Does that apply to small business owners as well?

One thing is for sure I totally disagree with the notch between part time and full time employees. Healthcare and other benefits should be based on a payroll tax of a percentage of salary, and not whether you work 30 or 35 hours. Our laws should actually encourage full time employment, and also discourage overtime employment.

That is because the reporter is bullshitting you.

This is the narrative that was peddled with "Reagan Democrats."

It is bullshit, pure adulterated bullshit.

that Trumbull county voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and then voted for Trump in 2016.

Can you provide factual information to refute those claims?

I'm sure one could find the election results and easily debunk the reporter if he is incorrect. Right?

There are SO many posts around here that call 'bull shit,' with no rationale, so no way to discuss.

If you can't prove it, then you're just making inflammatory, unsubstantiated claims.

It is believable and highly likely that these Democratic Trump voters did, indeed, vote for Obama in 2008 and 2012. One of the reasons is simple: President Obama saved the Auto Industry.

One of the biggest employers, maybe the biggest, in Trumbull County, Ohio is the General Motors Lordstown Plant. Here's a good read, if you are interested:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-gm-lordstown-assembly-plant-employees-ohio-9152009

I've met them. I sat behind one at a concert last night. My neighbor is a black Trump supporter! I don't speak with him often because EVERY conversation ends with a Clinton joke. That guy didn't even vote for Obama!

A couple I know is ex-blue collar union, now small property owners and odd jobbers. They said some things that make me think they voted for Trump. They are Obama fans.

A friend first told me of this trend when he did an informal poll of his coworkers. I still though Hillary was a shoe in. The people he spoke with were mostly doing it on the theory Trump wasn't a real Republican.

It disturbs me that this guy saw it and EVERYONE else missed it, aside from Michael Moore.

They are out there, trust me.

and then extrapolates it in trying to say these are "Trump Democrats."

You don't even know you are being played.

If they were telling "Clinton jokes," they are sexist assholes.

It has nothing to do with the supposed economy.

It is very clear.

The "Clinton jokes" guy is a truck driving black Republican, a unicorn if I have ever met one. And economics is at the root of all the others.

As near as I can figure they think that Obama had eight years to make their lives better. Their lives aren't better.

Railroad regulations made the Lake Michigan region way more advantageous than Youngstown or the Ohio Valley. So, the steel industry just ran the mills until they wore out and moved their capital away. Do these saddies realize that the first big mill closing was in 1960 when Republic shut down?

GM added one hundred thousand jobs to GM Packard, but most of them were at plants in Mexico. When Delphi and GM went into managed bankruptcy, Mitt Romney and the other Delphi bond holders decided to screw Warren and Dayton, Ohio and move their fifteen thousand jobs to Mexico when Delphi was reorganized.* Was that due to a "trade deal"? It happened after the auto market collapsed in the Bush recession.

I grew up in a "sun down town" in the Valley. Blacks were kept out at threat of violence. We had about no black families and Warren had ten thousand black people. So, Valley people are quite comfortable with racism and I can see why they were not turned off by racist Donald. They were probably aroused. I grew up hearing disparaging jokes about black people forever.

*Reported by Greg Palast

Trumbull: Clinton 18,189 votes Sanders 15,072 votes

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/04/ohios_official_2016_presidenti.html

I have zero sympathy for them.

Is it not important to understand why they switched?

Anybody who did so, which I doubt there were more than a tiny number, are sexist assholes.

We don't need them.

I disagree.

And so long as terrorist muslims are rounded up & deported.

Or as long as their racism is reaffirmed by trump cronies & his kkk. Sure they voted for PBO 2x but it didn't mean they'd allow him to live in their hood!

They won't vote for a woman so long as their misogynistic selves live... yes, femme trump voters also think they can't be misogynistic bcuz they get their nails done & don't ask permission for whom to vote. But they are self-loathing by not supporting equality for #1: themselves. Thx gen x fucking female trump voters & a big fuck u royally. U turned ur back on feminism in ur teens when u thought it was ur fault ur boyfriends beat the shit outta u so fuck u again. okay sorry don't mean to paint gen x so poorly but it was a big issue for me watching women around me turning their backs on equality.

They won't vote democratic until they understand science & why environmental issues matter & why regulations protect us today, tomorrow & their kids whom i have no doubt they 2 shits for anyway. They would have been the gatekeepers against a kleptocracy by corporate thieves had they an ounce of honor to put their own interests aside for the well being of future generations. The democratic party was offering them a hand up to participate in future tech & industry but they ran to toward the past in all its polluted glory. Bring back coal well fuck u no one wants it & when u wake up & ur sink runs not water but fire... take a good long look in the mirror.

We should understand these racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, kleptocratic enabling troglodytes? Bcuz they cry at their dinner table to the nice understanding man interviewing them? I'd just as soon not ty. Bcuz I don't believe them or trust them.

They r the feeders. They won't so much as lift a finger to work together with their fellow Americans to move forward towards clean energy or go back to school to learn new trades. They want to have a fucking beer with a pos trump cuz he says funny real shit about blacks, hispanics, muslims, bitches & smart people they can't understand.

We can't understand them cuz there's no way back machine. HRC had amazing common sense policies! What? These fuckwits can't read either? Reading not an "evangelical" value?

Maybe blue states need to fight for states rights so we don't slide into their coming nightmare & to keep our tax $ in our states.

You can't reason with the past. Just protect our progress as best we can and stick to our democratic platform. WHEN we get control of all 3 branches again... correct the damage.

They exist statistically and in real life. You only have to look at the returns in these new swing states Hillary ceded to Donald Trump. Look at counties where Obama won twice and Hillary lost or greatly underperformed.

Hell, on our local NPR station, the local call-in show had Sanders supporters that were voting Trump. If you don't pay a lot of attention, you are only listening for the "change" in your options.

Boy, oh boy are they ever getting that change.

The "reporter" finds a handful of people who allegedly "voted for Obama" but wouldn't vote for that horrible Hillary.

I don't know of a single person who voted for Trump who EVER voted for Obama. And I live in an extremely red part of Oregon, which is likely far more to the right than Ohio. It also has a history of a poor economy.

It is just BULLSHIT and shame on anybody who swallows the propaganda.

The reporter openly solicits feedback from the public for supposed Obama voters who this time voted for Trump. From that, this guy takes a few anecdotes and then extrapolates it in order to foster the belief there is a trend of "Trump Democrats."

I know how reporters go about doing feature stories. They openly solicit for subjects to be interviewed and then take the best ones to do a story. I was one who was interviewed a number of years ago by the NYT, whose reporter was wanting to get subjects who were negatively impacted in the last recession. My story was not used. These handful of stories don't mean anything in the grand scheme of the election.

It's about the economy and jobs. It always is.

No one wants to hear it. Everyone would rather just say their racist, homophobic, misogynistic assholes.

Which gets us exactly nowhere.

They are racist, sexist assholes.

I don't for one minute buy the media bullshit narrative that we have to pander to these idiots.

Have observed this many many times.

n/t

See above. It is accurate. A friend told me as much in October and I didn't listen to him. Now I am wishing I had worked harder for Hillary, but at the time, I believed her polling and the statements of her surrogates.

It's too bad really.

Automation, not trade, is the primary reason so many blue collar manufacturing jobs were lost. Ignorance of this fact led them to eat up the Racist-in-Chief's pablum of bringing the jobs back - jobs which will never return.

Did some form of bigotry motivate some of these people? Most likely yes. However, economic ignorance is the real reason for most of them.

are the culprits and have been since the 1980s, when neoliberal policies were embraced by the Reagan administration.

Any "automation" was much, much later and not the main factor. I was well into adulthood when Reagan took office, and I raised holy hell about what happened. There was NO "automation," an excuse often given by neoliberal apologists to justify their ruinous and crackpot economic ideas. The root cause of the US economic decline was Reaganomics.

And where were the blue collar dudes then? Voting against their self-interest time and time again.

No sympathy. They are 35 years TOO LATE to the party.

I recommend you read the Barlett and Steele books about what happened to the US. Automation had nothing to do with the decline. The entire blame rests on Washington, D.C. policies facilitating the destruction of the economy.

while employee productivity is through the roof.

This is entirely due to efficiencies. We kept the high productivity jobs here while exporting and/or eliminating the low productivity ones. Makes a lot of sense for the bottom line, and it's what they always wanted to do. Now they can.

come counties have actually switched from Obama to Trump.

Really. Not exit polls, but actual vote counts.

The point was to find out why-- and he found out a lot.

So, let's say you're a guy with a family, or a single mom, and you know how your grandparents lived through the Depression and fought for the right for you to have this decent job. A job that lets you buy a house, give your kids a good life, and lets you retire in dignity. Even buy some of the stuff your company makes.

Obama's a great guy and a great President in many ways, but the plant still closed and left you with no future. Maybe it wasn't Obama's fault, but it still happened on his watch.

So, do you vote for more of the same or gamble on the new guy? Tough choice when your life depends on it.

It's because of robots and other things. If your answer to that is to sit in your house stewing in bitterness blaming the gubment and immigrants and the media for your ills then you are not part of the problem, YOU ARE the problem.

Trump understood how unpopular this trade deal was and ran with it.

This may have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

While Clinton and Sanders were also on the record as against the TPP it sent a mixed message with President Obama still pushing to pass it.

Those jobs have been on the march out of this country for 2 decades, if not longer.

This was a view held by many on both the left and the right:

http://www.progressive.org/news/2015/04/188098/trans-pacific-partnership-fast-track-lost-jobs-and-lower-wages

Ohio had already been losing jobs to the countries involved in the TPP:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/03/ohio_lost_112500_jobs_due_to_t.html

But TPP or no TPP, the jobs aren't coming back. why would they come back? Long term, automation is cheaper and companies don't have to pay for little Billy's braces or dad's gall bladder surgery. Robots don't get sick. Robots don't go on strike. The Chinese work cheaper and so do the Mexicans. At what point do these people see the writing on the wall? The cradle to the grave promise of employment and benefits is gone for everyone, not just those who work in manufacturing or mine coal.

these other countries. Heck, Malaysia still has trouble with slave labor.

Shouldn't we want a fair playing field where workers in other countries are paid fair wages and protected?

http://www.politifact.com/global-news/statements/2016/apr/12/bernie-s/sanders-right-migrant-laborers-malaysia-are-forced/

Whether or not they are willing to admit it will tell the tale as to whether or not they were ever Dems in the first place. I have my doubts.

to voters about the direction of the party while our presidential candidate was running in opposition to it.

The majority of people in Trumbull county voted for Obama in 2 different elections. Democrats or not they helped elect our Democratic president on those occasions.

Independents make up the largest portion of the American electorate and perhaps many are independent.

But with independents now the major political affiliation in America there is a need to make sure Democratic issues and policies appeal to them if we are to win in the general.

Further, trade wasn't in the top issues of exit polling. Economy was #1, and Hillary won that 52/42 nationally and won it in the rust belt states.

The TPP boogieman is so completely overemphasized around here that it's actually funny, in a twisted kind of way.

The very first sentence cannot be backed up in any meaningful way.

"a lot people who voted for Barack Obama, not once but twice, are now Donald Trump fans."

I brought you to the exact sentence that is a lie. I stated it in my reply. The article literally starts with a lie that cannot be backed up. Authors like this are catering their fake news stories to LIV's. It worked all election, why stop with the bullshit now.

Doesn't that support the claim?

I don't get how people can't think that through. They are not connectable in any honest way.

The two items you are trying to connect have absolutely no connection at all with respect to garnering meaningful information for analysis.

for Trump this time around. It's kind of obvious....

Your points are not connectable nor have you shown any meaningful analysis. You can't because it doesn't exist.

in 2016?

Seriously? Did you read the article?

That is why there is no attempt to back up such an absurd claim. The only metrics you mentioned were not connectable in any way.

Additionally, calling that false, as I have, doesn't rise to the level of the words you tried to speak on my behalf.

this is dishonest reporting.

That is your right.....

"a lot people who voted for Barack Obama, not once but twice, are now Donald Trump fans. "

I also don't get the manner in which you just determine someone is right and truthful. Very strange to say the least.

You should read the great Pulitzer Janet Cook. Hang off every word as if it were the truth.

Obama won twice with over 60% of the vote and over 60,000 votes each time.

Clinton lost getting only 44.8% of the vote and getting only 42,130 votes.


Obama won Trumbull county with 60% of the vote in 2008

The article says these voters were attracted to Trump's stance on overseas manufacturing? Are they on some brain-rotting chemical? Are they unable to READ? Or THINK? His companies have almost everything manufactured overseas! They just mean they like the sound bite that was pushed relentlessly in the Trump ads. His REAL stance on everything is very close to Paul Ryan's. I wonder if they think Paul Ryan is one of those villainous Washington establishment insiders responsible for the jobs leaving, or is he a valiant hero fighting for "US" against "special interests" (code for Black and Brown people)?

BIGLY.

1. Trump's promises turn out to be empty. Things get worse, not better. A lot worse. In addition to no jobs coming back, Trumbullites lose their Obamacare.

2. People in Trumbull who switched their votes from D to Trump continue to blame the Ds for their problems.

And, that's it.

Always better to go for truthiness over actual data in these matters. Better to just hope for vengeance to be wreaked on such voters than to try to figure them out.

Certainly hope our party takes its cues from DU. That will help to ensure that we win future elections.