more than anything. He kissed up to Bernie's supporters to foster their hostility, and now he's really showed them what fools he took them for. Billionaires everywhere! Real vultures, too, true consumer predators.

Last edited Fri Dec 9, 2016, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

and the Trail of Tears. Slaveholders were the financial elite at the time of the party's inception. Its ties to Wall Street developed in the late 19th and early 2Oth century. FDR received 25% of his campaign donations from Wall Street, while earlier presidents were even more dependent on contributions from the extremely wealthy.

Nor is neoliberalism new, and you aren't objecting to it. What you are actually lamenting is the decline of American empire and the ability of the white middle class to maintain a standard of living made possible by the exploitation of the global South.

There is no historical past where the US state did not represent capital. There are periods when the white bourgeoisie was comparatively better of than the non-white populations, and in which American prosperity was made possible by the systemic overthrow of one sovereign state after another it order to enforce the interests of American corporations operating there.

Which of those periods and values are you so anxious to restore?

But the terms empire and bourgeoisie are not often used to describe the US by its citizens, and never by its politicians. It conflicts with the carefully cultivate myth of the US as always being motivated by the best of intentions.

To rely on historical mythology when critiquing government and political parties. People can and should advocate for substantive change, but its better to do so with an eye toward the future rather than nostalgia for a past that never existed in the way they imagine.

I have read many articles about the supposed "golden age" of working class America that pass over the inconvenient fact that this "golden age" was only golden for white males. And it was due to the total lack of class consciousness (and class solidarity) in the US that capitalists so easily took away what was briefly gained.

Yup.

She has no credibility

in spite of facts, truth, and consequences. It sure is going a bit far.

She was a a Hillary hater from the get go.

We need Democrats that can win back State Houses.

I don't have enough time in the day to list off all the democrats that just got wiped out.

And I don't have enough time in a year to list off all the good politicians that lost a race or two or more somewhere along the way.

So maybe, juuuust maybe, your logic is bad.

That's pretty significant. The number of abstentions is also pretty glaring.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/the_myth_of_the_rust_belt_revolt.html



Nina Turner has some fire. Hope she runs again.

but but but ... Massive Negatives don't matter

Let's see if Keith Ellison can get the DNC spot. The consequence of 2016 is progressives are going to try and take over the party apparatus.

be able to make the case for Democrats...his issues will cloud our efforts; we could lose a constituency of the Democratic Party outright...Keith is a great guy but not the man for the job...not if our goal is win elections which it should be.

efforts to elect Dems. It is so important we get the states back before the census...or the gerrymander continues. Ellison is not a wise choice.

the DNC will hurt us in 18 for sure and probably 20 as well.

candidate to have any 'baggage' at this point-no matter how insignificant some Dems think it is at this point. No matter what the baggage is--we know the gop will amplify it beyond the heavens!! I think Perez is more 'clean' for lack of a better word. Besides--he has been out to many states and seems to know many who will be helpful in pulling together people IMHO.

Most are Democrats or left leaning independents and most of them voted for Hillary. But a few who have always voted before stayed home this time. They said they couldn't vote for either candidate.

I will not vote at all or vote third party so a Republican will get elected who will actively and relentlessly try to fuck me over.

I guess if what you want is attention, you're better off having someone determined to make your life worse than someone who leaves you alone through inattention.

But let's pretend it's about how much they hated "oligarchs" HA.

Trumbull county is one of the areas in the rust belt that showed significant losses for the Democrats.


Obama won twice with over 60% of the vote and over 60,000 votes each time.

Clinton lost getting only 44.8% of the vote and getting only 42,130 votes.


Obama won Trumbull county with 60% of the vote in 2008

MSNBC is there to give him a microphone.
We saw that shit all year. Didn't get him a win, but I guess it will sell a few books.

for the Senate.

He'll be all over the country working with groups and individuals that want to work with the Democratic party.

As for the statistics they show gains for Trump regardless of the losses for Clinton in the rust belt. And that's the area where Clinton lost the election. Areas that overwhelmingly went for Obama in 2 elections like Trumbull county went for Trump in 2016.

If we are to win in 2020 we will need those voters to return to the Democrats.

Democrats , liberals , and progressives . Not just the top job either we need bottom up ...........

with what it is saying in front of microphones, but it was smart of them to make up a title for him.

Amy Klobucher is currently its chair. She will remain the Steering Committee chair in the 115th congress

When Schumer decided to expand the leadership team to ten members, he split steering and outreach into two separate committees. News sources are describing Sanders as a junior member of the newly expanded Democratic leadership team.

"There are a variety of new or elevated roles, all elected by acclimation. Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders, for instance, will be outreach chairman."

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/charles-e-schumer-minority-leader

http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-democrats-522342

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/16/senate-democrats-tap-bernie-sanders-lead-outreach/93960822/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/11/16/schumer-elected-senate-democratic-leader/?utm_term=.559a34d39c26

http://www.washington.edu/federalrelations/2016/11/16/115th-congress-senate-democratic-leadership-committees/

of the very powerful Budget Committee. He will remain the Democrat's ranking member for this Congress.

Schumer is a tough, pragmatic Democratic leader, but he is also a calculating politician. I live in NY, and he has shown up at the college AND high school graduations of all three of my kids.

For the high school graduations, all three times he voiced his congratulations, took what looked like a speech out of his pocket, made a comment about how audiences hate speeches from politicians, and then, with an exaggerated gesture, tore the paper up to the cheers of everyone. He knows how to work a crowd.

The primary. Awesome.

No matter what, it's democrats fault

who really make up the majority.'

Or for that matter, any of the Bernie people?

Nothing?

I don't want his advice.

Last edited Fri Dec 9, 2016, 01:50 AM - Edit history (1)

I know you'd like to pretend this was NOT a huge squeaker but it was. I'm sick of hearing advice from people who didn't even make it to the election itself.

Against the least popular candidate in US history, who was also openly racist, misogynist, and an obvious liar.

And it was really close.

And we lost.

This is not the time to say we did nothing wrong.

This is so dishonest.

Anyone peddling the email shit should be ashamed of themselves at this point.
Fucking RW bullshit enabled here is disgusting.

It was Comey. I also heard that the Russians planted fake news that Trump won the Presidency.

Transparent and shameless.

There was a late shift to Trump in the final week, clearly shown by the exit polls.

It was planned, and it worked.

Pretty funny that you accuse others of sticking their heads in the sand when you can't even acknowledge one of the most obvious influential moments of the entire campaign.

to all things political.

I was pleased to read Nina's take, and expected the nay-sayers to chime in. They have. I'm afraid this presages hard times for Dems.

she didn't appeal to people, that definition of winning seems to apply.

The Guccifer crap? The total silence from Anonymous as well? Misogyny showed up in a hundred little ways to aid and abet Trump.

We need people in leadership spots to be speaking out ... especially now ! If we do not who is trumps people ? hear their B. S ?

Sorry to jump in like this .... something to think about .........

Bernie is a strong voice .... who else is speaking up right now .........

primaries are over for everyone

Wanted to add glad to hear VP Biden hope to hear more voices in public

Are those the losers you refer to?

They are the ones who need to go away. No more Mook, Podesta, etc.

We need to start thinking like a team and working on things that unite democrats , liberals , progressives or republicans are going to run the show for a long time ......

in divisive times...... the other side wins ......

How freaking un-selfaware can they be? This voter apathy line Team Also-ran is taking is a RW myth and needs to go away. Notice that they are doing exactly what they're piously scolding Dems for doing, namely, blaming "working people" for Nov. 8:

I thought we yanked it back on Super Tuesday but I guess it's the sticky type that's hard to get rid of.

We are being bro'ed here.

by a guy with a trailer full of bikes ...

Carry on....

Last edited Fri Dec 9, 2016, 01:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary, insured what we have now.

Everyone knew that trump was a racist and a sexist. They knew the Supreme Court, Civil Rights, the environment, health care, student loans, etc. was at stake, and still they these self-identified progressives refused to vote for Hillary.

I think Noam Chomsky said it best: Progressives who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton made a ‘bad mistake’

"“I think they [made] a bad mistake,” said Chomsky, who reiterated that it’s important to keep a “greater evil” from obtaining power, even if you’re not thrilled with the alternative. “I didn’t like Clinton at all, but her positions are much better than Trump’s on every issue I can think of.”

Chomsky also attacked the arguments made by philosopher Slavoj Zizek, who argued that Trump’s election would at least shake up the system and provide a real rallying point for the left.

“[Zizek makes a] terrible point,” Chomsky told Hasan. “It was the same point that people like him said about Hitler in the early ’30s… he’ll shake up the system in bad ways.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/noam-chomsky-progressives-who-refused-to-vote-for-hillary-clinton-made-a-bad-mistake/

After the way Hillary was treated by these self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary, the media, the republicans, the right, and the FBI, don't count on those DEMOCRATS who knew what the stakes were this election, and voted for Hillary.

Ms. Turner did you also notice that Russ Feingold, Zyper Teachout, and every Democrat running for the Senate in a swing state lost against the establishment republican incumbent.

All three branches of government are now controlled by perhaps the most draconian group of gangsters as evidenced by the make up of the trump team.

This WAS a generational election, and it will take a generation or more to reverse the damage.

That the country could not depend on those self-identified progressives that refused to vote for Hillary, their actions have just condemned the issues they profess to care about.

Maybe Nina will grow up to be a perma-spoiler like Stein.
Tulsi is very very conservative, adjusted a lot of positions to get into office. I think she may go back to the GOP soon. Amazing how no one could guess how many opportunists latched on to Sanders.

and no amount of insistence that we're so much smarter (and so much better) than all Trump supporters helps Democrats gain an understanding about all we have lost and why we lost it.

A reply up thread states Democrats LOST 1.17 million voters in the Rust Belt 5 that voted for Obama in 2012. I want to change that. Democrats need to change that, but we're not going to by telling those folks how dumb they are.

If we have any chance of retaking the House, the Senate, more governorships, we'd better start listening. If we hope to make inroads with voters in the Rust Belt and elsewhere, we'd better change our attitudes toward them.

Time to work together.

What`s the story with the House? The Senate? The White House? Just about the entire mid section of the country? Maybe you`re happy with winning the popular vote and letting Republicans control everything else, but I`m not sure that`s the way to move our agenda forward.

on how to win. She should spend more time reflecting on her own strategic flaws.

She was not in office for NAFTA being first lady and all...and she spoke against the final version of the TPP...and while some Democrats voted for these agreements ( not TPP which has not come up for a vote), all Republicans vote for them...so there is more than that going on...first of all it is clear that the GOP cheated in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania....and rather than condemn the Democratic party once again which causes us to lose, Bernie ET Al should be working to stop the cheating and Trump. Why does Bernie target the Democratic Party relentlessly and not the Republican Party? He and his supporters should target Republicans and stop sowing discord. As for Nina, I live in Ohio, and she will have to move to resume her career. There is no outreach that will help here in Ohio. We have heard it all before. The folks that voted for Trump in Trumbull are making $9.00 an hour. if they are lucky and steel took a dive last year. My husband lost his job in fact. He got a new one so we are fine but many are not fine. People forget that Pres. Obama said he would 'fix ' NAFTA and other unfair trade agreements, but he didn't. Also, he was liked personally. But the TPP is viewed as a betrayal. Romney had actually cost real people jobs in Ohio and that hurt him too. So no one was prepared to vote for an equity guy. Along comes Trump promising to fix things so the voters took a chance...that is what happened. Many felt they had nothing to lose. I live in Trumbull County...my town went for Clinton by the way. I had hoped we would pull the election out in Ohio and elsewhere but it didn't happen here. The cheating in other states gave Trump the White House...I am not willing to tear up the Democratic Party because we lost a close election by GOP cheating.

Nina's loyalty and strategy.

sincerely hope if Keith Ellison becomes DNC chair, she is not a vocal part of the DNC but I fear she will be.

Sid

Bernie/Nina in 2020? Yup, I can see that for sure.

She is of course correct and the way forward is with progressives! It's time for Dems to return to FDR ideals and back the average person. We need more people like Nina and Tulsi among our ranks! GO NINA!

And they are not correct. In case you have not noticed, the country took a right turn. There is no evidence that Bernie's message would resonate with such an electorate, and we will never know.

He'd be 80. And? The guy walks miles every day. I'm not concerned about his age, I'm concerned about where the country is heading. Keep in mind too that the majority of American's agree with Bernie's policies. As far as the country taking a right turn, no it didn't as nearly half of all America didn't even vote.

I would not vote for him; many won't. I know you guys love Bernie, but I don't...and I believe at 80, he should not run...pass the torch to the next generation. He had his turn. And Nina is a non-starter;she has burned too many bridges. Time for a candidate who understands populism and trade. We need to bring manufacturing back. People here in in the Midwest want jobs and nothing less will satisfy them.

Enlighten me please. Why would you not vote for Bernie? I don't get it. It's important that we have reps who stand up to things like the high cost of prescription drugs, strengthening SS, Medicare and vet programs, wages, health care. What part of Bernie's platform are you having a problem with exactly? I find this rather interesting. He has done a lot in the senate and has fought for those of us who live paycheck to paycheck. Is this a bad thing? I'm not getting it.

I find it interesting that you obviously voted for Hillary, someone who ran for POTUS twice and yet say "He had his turn" when it comes to Bernie who ran once. Not getting that either. I'm curious, if Hillary ran in 2020 would you vote for her despite of what you just said?

Burning bridges is exactly what's needed to be done. A slap of cold hard truth and reality. People like Keith, Nina and Tulsi are the way forward. We can't afford to go back with now only 18 states under Dem control, it's a losing strategy on an epic scale.

Populism and trade? Bernie was to the left of Hillary on trade. So again, can you please elaborate with what you said?

Thanks!

I don't think he can win. Also, I like some of his ideas but not all...I don't for example, believe a payroll tax should be used to pay for college tuition nor that people of all income levels should receive free tuition. You say Bernie has fought, but how? He is the amendment king, but mostly they go nowhere. I actually voted for Bernie in the Ohio primary. I regret that...I don't mean to offend you or anyone but when Bernie who refuses to join the Democratic Party says negative stuff about the party, it infuriates me. I feel he is divisive and will hurt our chances in 18 and 20. I don't like him. I am not alone in this feeling which is why he won't be the candidate in 20 in my opinion...time to move on to the next generation. We need someone who is younger with new ideas. We have lost so much because of this election...it will take years to fix it ...if it can be fixed. I am a liberal by the way...I believe in the Democratic platform...I also believe we need manufacturing and that Democratic socialism no matter how it is presented will not win in this country. I want a candidate who can win and at least stop the bleeding.

frequency traders more than any other group in regards to the tax.

High frequency traders use extremely fast internet connections to see what other stocks people are buying and then buy the stock and charge the person they beat to the stock their own form of tax but instead that money they pocket for themselves.

Putting a tax on stock transactions would help slow this vulturing by high frequency traders and help keep stability in the market.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-case-for-a-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_trading


Not sure where you came up with the idea that the debt free college program would be a payroll tax...

My mistake...but I was correct in that he wanted to raise payroll taxes as a means to pay for family leave...I still object to giving rich kids free tuition by the way which he did advocate for.


"Bernie Sanders says it's not just Wall Street and corporate All workers would face a slight payroll tax hike.
The Vermont senator who's seeking the Democratic presidential nomination said Sunday on ABC's "This Week" that the across the board increase would come as part of his push to guarantee paid family leave.
Sanders touted a measure sponsored in the Senate by Democrat Kirsten Gillibrand of New York that would impose a new 0.2% payroll tax to finance family leave payments. The proposal would allow workers to get up to 66% of their salaries as paid family leave for up to 12 weeks.
He acknowledged that tax would apply to everyone.
"Yes, it would," he said. "But it would mean that we would join the rest of the industrialized world and make sure that when a mom has a baby, she can, in fact, stay home with that baby for three months rather than go back to work at the end of one week."
Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist who has been elected to the Senate as an independent, has advocated for several other new taxes to pay for his potentially pricey policy proposals."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/18/politics/bernie-sanders-payroll-tax-hike-family-leave/

IF and I say IF Bernie runs for the presidency, not only will Bannon make him into a Commie, blah, blah, blah, but also into Methuselah (Unfortunately, that age thing WILL work against Dems to some degree ), but that opposition research Bannon has isn't going anywhere IE: Bernie's a pedophile (Voted against Ambers Alert: Child porn bill), and rapist (Per Bernie's OWN 1972 essay which was provocative to say the least). IF Bernie does run, he better get those 2 things sorted out and explained away well before 2020--Assuming that under a tRump DOJ Dems are able to vote. You see what happened in North Carolina where over 400 voting precincts were closed. I put nothing past Rethugs to take even MORE of the vote away from Dems on steroids in 2018 in Red states or to even make inroads with "help," more fake news from WikiLeaks of some kind, other LIES thrown in there too. Plus, they'll be NO fact-checking by 99% of the Liberal Media that doesn't exist, and let's not forget about their buddies the Russians Hell, Voter suppression and voter disenfranchisement's bad now, but think about it 2 years FROM now.

Oh, plus who in the Sam HELL would trust a tRump FBI or DOJ to investigate voter suppression/voter disenfranchisement if it were reported by Democrats to them ......

Because http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Tulsi_Gabbard.htm

Exclude industrial hemp from definition of marijuana

Tax incentives for wind, solar, biomass and wave energy. (Nov 2012)

Supports regulating greenhouse gas emissions. (Sep 2012)

Require labeling genetically engineered food

Supports same-sex marriage. (Sep 2012)

On and on.

So what makes you think she isn't?

Only reason you think she is progressive is because she supported Sanders

You can do better than that.

Hawkish? Well we know who else is hawkish don't we? If Tulsi is so hawkish then why is she calling for an end to the war in Syria? https://www.votetulsi.com/node/25114 I also highly recommend that you read this too https://www.thenation.com/article/the-state-departments-wrong-headed-push-for-war-with-syria/

Tulsi is Islmaphobic? Perhaps you can tell us then why she is speaking out against the very thing you claim she is https://goo.gl/fJnOCp

Come on, use Google for this stuff. She isn't either of the things which you claim & quit the snide remarks while you're at it. You're better than that.

That confirm your existing beliefs. Her hawkishness and Islamaphobic beliefs are well documented

is because of her support for Sanders

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/curious-islamophobic-politics-dem-congressmember-tulsi-gabbard

Not a Democrat thus...not interested in her 'take'.

after the events that lead to that resignation & 3 other top members of the DNC leadership is a bridge too far....

Nina Turner does not have the best interests of the Democratic party in mind and so it is hard to care about her opinions.

I was a delegate to Philadelphia and I was happy that she was bumped from speaking at the National Convention.

But we suffer from a lot of structural issues and disadvantages that we need to correct such as voter apathy (why can't our voters get out and vote in every single election when Republican voters do?), Gerrymandering, and voter suppression. HRC- flawed though she might have been- won the PV by a commanding lead but lost the WH by enough of a margin in the key Electoral states. Democrats did pick up Senate and House seats. No, not enough to make a majority but we still came away in a (slightly) better position. Democratic policies are more widely popular than Republican ones (to the extent that Republicans have anything remotely resembling "policies&quot . There are lessons to be learned from every election but there is also the danger of learning the wrong ones too. For instance, if we decide that we didn't appeal enough to WWC and turn around and do things that we think that might appeal more to them during the next election and but instead alienates women and POC, then we are shooting ourselves in the foot. While we try to fix what's broken, let's be careful to not fix what isn't broken either.

Any vote for him is for one or more of these reasons: ignorance/stupidity, racist/xenophobic, voting against their own interests, and voting to protect their wealth. But Clinton's economic message wasn't very strong. Too much relied on the Obama years and vague statements like "make the economy work for everyone."

We can get back to economic populism without abandoning social justice. Actually, the two are intertwined in a way. I am even a little to the left of Bernie. I think the federal government should give everyone a wage that covers necessities so no one goes hungry or without shelter. Many think this will actually encoiurage work. Anyway, the working class is a part of economic populism, so yes we need to get back to it.

Hopefully she can play a strong role in the rebuilding of the party. One of the few people who really 'get it'.