That's how we got here, turn the other cheek and get slapped. Show the unslapped cheek and get slapped again. Now with both cheeks stung and red we offer a hand to shake and they cut that sucker off.

because i feel as if angry is destined to grow into bitterness. i have worked for years to beat bitterness - i don't want it back.

I keep telling myself that someday I will be happy again.

Last edited Fri Dec 9, 2016, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Willful ignorance doesn't wash with me.

I think we need to stop thinking about them. I think we need to focus on engaging non-voters in the swing states that we missed this time and that Obama won previously. That is our key.

There may be some of the naive Trump voters that can be swayed when buyers remorse sets in, but to do so we need Dems to trumpet his failures at every possible opportunity.

We need to get engaging, well-spoken, dynamic surrogates on TV every day and every week especially on Sunday.

just apathetic?
think both sides same?
didn't know how or no means?
disgusted by politics?

one is a life-long friend who has never even registered. when she tried to discuss the election with me i cut her off on that basis. still love her, i always will, but on this issue we must never speak again.

the other is my son (i know! i've failed. 2 out of 3 voted and voted the right way, but this oldest one, aargh). he has not yet been persuaded that they aren't all the same.

so my guess is you hit the biggest 2 reasons right off the bat, but otherwise i dunno

So continuing to do the same thing is not likely to get different results next time.

We obviously need to focus our efforts in states like PA, WI, and OH which Obama won and we can win. Thinking that just because Obama won those states in the past that they were in the bag for Clinton was the biggest boner campaign move imagineable.

But with such small margins of loss there we'd be better off and more likely to pick up non-voters and younger voters in those states than we are Trump voters. Putting our efforts and focus on young people in those states who can be convinced someone on our side offers them a better future is more likely to yield dividends than focusing on people naive enough to believe that their old manufacturing jobs are going to come back.

People are going to suffer and die because of their ignorance.

this election was vile, willfully ignorant, downright stupid... I am angry and will be for a long while... righteous anger about the coming dismantling of all I hold dear

I am angry that no "adults" capable of stopping this are willing to stand up and do it

They cast the ultimate "fuck you" vote out of spite. It wasn't because they thought he was the better candidate. They knew exactly what they were voting for.

I feel almost the same way about the people who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary because . . . well, most of them can't even tell you why. They enabled the butternut turd just as surely as those who voted for him.

The thing that really makes me mad is that when the shit starts hitting the fan after DT takes office in January, everyone gets screwed, not just those who made it possible.

They knowingly put a man in power who is objectively unfit to hold office at the city council or local school board level, let alone in the White House. They voted for a dangerous con man and bully because they are collectively terrified of the unknown future, racists, bigots and slime who prefer prevarication and pandering to truth and consequences.

They own him.
His braggadocio.
His bluster.
His buffoonery.
His ham-fisted 'diplomacy'.
His lies.
His asinine statements and his "tweets"

They own it all and I have no intention of EVER allowing them to forget it.
As soon as things start going south in January, I have EVERY intention of telling them "I told you so" as loudly and as often as opportunity allows.

This country is on the road to being an international pariah in that moron's first 100 days. He is insulting diplomats, picking fights with China, cozying up to Russia and all of this BEFORE he takes the oath of office that he will IMMEDIATELY be in violation of the second he finishes the words.

If anyone voted for Trump and it was not a stolen vote through mistabulation or fraud, their names should be recorded and cataloged so that their family surnames can carry the stain upon them for generations to come.

By the way, I am not even remotely kidding or being sarcastic...this are people who need to own their decision and own the consequences that it will have for the planet and this nation. It was not hyperbole to say that man was an existential threat to the republic during the campaign, and absolutely NOTHING has changed since then.

"the queers" will pop up. I cleaned up the language they will use.

I understand that everyone is affected, and I'm not trying to discount anyone's feelings. I'm only speaking of myself, the individual, here.

I feel that it was such a personal thing that people that I've known for decades just don't "get" what a monster Donald Trump is. In many ways, this has been a period of understanding for me as to several friendships, what those friendships mean, and where those friendships are going. This has caused me to reflect a great deal on who *I* am and what *I* stand for.

I don't want Trump voters to die an agonizing death. That's not my purpose. But I do want some type of responsibility and accountability from them for their votes. It's NOT okay to perpetuate fake news which many of them did. It's NOT okay to allow yourself to me misinformed, ill-informed, or uninformed. It's NOT okay to vote for someone all the while refusing to see that which he clearly is - a racist, a sexist and a bigot. On top of that, Trump is a bully.

I cannot feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the rest of us who will be affected negatively by their bad choice.

Is that they've been conned.

I guess it's hard for them to admit it.

And he knows they are idiots too.

I don't feel sorry for any of them and hope their conditions worsen under his regime.

In short, fuck them.

Maybe if they start to drop like flies for lack of health coverage I'll muster some sympathy . . . or maybe not. Sometimes the herd has to be culled.

Call me a coastal urban liberal elitist if you want, but I don't think these people made rational decisions. And with all of the information readily available to them, they *had* to know that Trump had both racist and misogynist tendencies. They either didn't care, or they were down with it.

We need to focus on motivating and turning out our base. We need to focus on reaching out to non-voters. We need to focus on state and local elections, where we can overcome voter suppression laws that harm us on the national level.

Fretting too much about the delusions of the mythical "white working-class" would be a waste of our time. They'll probably be too busy with all of their new coal mining jobs to vote next time anyway.

He isn't a republican, he is an independent. He lives in Wisconsin and he told me he voted for trump for several reasons. He said the message he was getting from Hillary is, "vote for me, I'm not Trump." He said Trump spoke to him on the matter of jobs (whether or not it's true) but Hillary did not. Her big message was, "vote for me and I'll be the first woman president."

Normally he votes democratic, he voted for Obama both times something with Trumps message came through when Hillarys did not.

they will watch President Trump and friends do it, and they will look you straight in the face and blame President Obama and the liberals.

I think if we are to survive, as a species, we have to figure out a way to override their ignorance and hate.

Ironically it's the red states that're using them.

...Trump supporters would not be allowed entrance due to their low moral standards.

Not even good enough to be Satan's minions.

is ignorance an excuse, especially willful (na na na i can't hear you!) ignorance? so many of them are just massive hypocrites! christian, and you choose this man? this pervert, sex offender, draft dodger, tax evader, liar? talk about a golden calf...

i do love some of them. it still makes it hard for me, because i think i will have to forgive them, but i also think that i am probably still too pissed so far.

i don't know how it will go in the future. in my family we have tacitly agreed not to talk politics in the past, but this thing is incredibly huge, and i am aghast that even a single one of them thought trump was the right choice.

i'm struggling. fortunately i have an appt with my dr to get my klonopin refilled today. been pretty distraught for just about one month today.

I have zero tolerance for ignorance, hate and racism
no matter how they dress it up or who it's from.
And after an endless stream of heinous rightwing
fake news on her Facebook feed, I blocked my sister
without a single regret.

once in a while we get into it but it's freaking impossible to get them to see anything beyond FoxNews talking points

Sid

They, are victims of hate media, misinformation, propaganda and leading in many cases woefully uneducated lives. Hence, they are extremely gullible and naive.

That said, I understand where many are! They've been F'ed over by a system that in many cases does not care about them. Hence, they want change at any cost, even if it's bad. Trump, fed them a pack of lies. He thinks of them as LOSERS, and used them for the vote.

Trump doesn't give a shit about them. Eventually, maybe. they will realize that.

Me, I'm just disgusted with the whole fucken country!

I have no forgiveness for any of them---that includes relatives, and school friends going all the way back to second grade. The peril in which their ignorant voting has placed this nation will take generations to correct (if we're really lucky), and will be the subject of bewildered historical consideration for centuries to come. Just fuck 'em, and the brain-dead mainstream media which enabled them.

I want my country back.

on this country can DROP DEAD.

Very few of them are stupid. I started thinking about it an noticed symptoms that I had ignored earlier. All have some pretty bad character flaws and I'm not going to deal with it. I cut those people out of my life. I'm not going to let their toxins hurt me anymore.

It's really hard. Most of the people in my contact list voted for Trump. They are my good friends, my confidants, neighbors I enjoy hanging out with on the deck, people I worship with on a regular basis. Then there is my family - solid, rabid Trump supporters. I love and care for all of these people. And they voted for Trump. I will say as a group they were kind - no one called me to gloat or rub salt into my deep anguish during those first early, ever so painful days following the election. But there have been a few uncomfortable (on their part) conversations in the past week as they have felt the need to defend some of the idiot's actions. Yes we talk politics - or perhaps "current events" is a better term - because we are involved and interested in the world around us. And for the most part we value and respect each other's opinions. The conversations - and relationships - will continue.

They have shown themselves to be selfish, racist, misogynistic, morons. All lot of them say get over it? Wait and see what he does? If they were paying any damned attention they should already have known what he was about before they voted. A lot of the morons saw a TV personality and voted for him.

anybody else. They have the same capacity for growth and wisdom that we do, and the same capacity for reactionary limbic driven decision making. Some have the privilege of ignorance that affects their self-serving judgement, and many more have the misfortune of it, which affects their self-harming judgement.

The level of ignorance shouldn't be thought of as willful. It should be thought of as systemic----even systematic to a great extent. Focus on the mechanisms and not their products. Its the machinery that is the problem.

....voted for this horrible excuse for a human being had definitely changed how I view them.

And they do not mean it when they recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

http://charleseisenstein.net/hategriefandanewstory/

At such moments, it is a normal response to find someone to blame, as if identifying fault could restore the lost normality, and to lash out in anger. Hate and blame are convenient ways of making meaning out of a bewildering situation. Anyone who disputes the blame narrative may receive more hostility than the opponents themselves, as in wartime when pacifists are more reviled than the enemy.

Racism and misogyny are devastatingly real in this country, but to blame bigotry and sexism for voters’ repudiation of the Establishment is to deny the validity of their deep sense of betrayal and alienation. The vast majority of Trump voters were expressing extreme dissatisfaction with the system in the way most readily available to them. (See here, here, here, here) Millions of Obama voters voted for Trump (six states who went for Obama twice switched to Trump). Did they suddenly become racists in the last four years? The blame-the-racists (the fools, the yokels…) narrative generates a clear demarcation between good (us) and evil (them), but it does violence to the truth. It also obscures an important root of racism – anger displaced away from an oppressive system and its elites and onto other victims of that system. Finally, it employs the same dehumanization of the other that is the essence of racism and the precondition for war. Such is the cost of preserving a dying story. That is one reason why paroxysms of violence so often accompany a culture-defining story’s demise.

snip...


Even if the person you face IS a misogynist or bigot, ask, “Is this who they are, really?” Ask what confluence of circumstances, social, economic, and biographical, may have brought them there. You may still not know how to engage them, but at least you will not be on the warpath automatically. We hate what we fear, and we fear what we do not know. So let’s stop making our opponents invisible behind a caricature of evil.

We’ve got to stop acting out hate. I see no less of it in the liberal media than I do in the right-wing. It is just better disguised, hiding beneath pseudo-psychological epithets and dehumanizing ideological labels. Exercising it, we create more of it. What is beneath the hate? My acupuncturist Sarah Fields wrote to me, “Hate is just a bodyguard for grief. When people lose the hate, they are forced to deal with the pain beneath.”

more at link

who wanted to lash out and hurt their fellow Americans. What is scary is how ripe they are for the coming scapegoating. Casino don will need some group to blame for his failures or God forbid the next terror attack. His followers are locked and loaded. All he has to say is sic em.

Most republicans voted for Trump because he's at the top of the ticket and they voted straight ticket like always. Some of them really don't like Trump at all, but compared to Clinton they see him as the "lesser of two evils," so they voted accordingly.

And for a bunch, Trump was just a big "fuck you" to the whole field offered up this year.

Don't hate them. Figure out what they actually want, and appeal to the stuff that isn't garbage. All these people screaming insults at them might feel good about it, but they're making it impossible for any of us to access these people.

Most of the people I know and work with voted for Trump. None of them like him, but they wanted to give the republican party (their own party) a big black eye after decades of obvious cronyism and bullshit. I got a few to sign on for Bernie in the primary (because he complained about all the same things they complain about all day), but they would never go for Clinton.

If any of them voted Sanders and then Trump, it is because they are sexist assholes.

There is NO logical explanation for anybody on the left to be voting Trump except sexism.

I suspect very, very few who voted Trump were Democrats, despite some hype by some reporters trying to draw comparisons to Ronald Reagan.

The fact is we don't need them. Half of the population never bothered to vote. We need to target them, not the bigots.

to STILL vote for him. It was a form of extreme delusion or an act of evil.