He's lighting fuses all over the world. Which one will blow up first and give him and The Generals the excuse they're waiting for?

I know where this is headed, that is why he stacked his cabinet that way.

I had a very long conversation with my Democratic, yet basically unpolitical sister tonight. She has been on top of this election and if she is going crazy, you know it is bad.

I have cried so many tears, I just feel empty right now and very frightened.

May we all try to find some peace and just hold on to each other right now.

crying after two days and am now Mad as hell. I hope you can focus.

The Trumpers love our tears.

because I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm mad as hell.

A lot of shit going on in my life right now.

I will focus on them all and if I wish to cry then I will and pick myself up once again.

Fiddle-dee-dee. Warmonger, warmonger, warmonger -- this "Hillary is a warmonger" talk helped to spoil the election this year. I will not eat barbecue with them.

Just enough votes bled off, as warned, to give the election to the person who shouldn't have been able to run for president in the first place. This could be our undoing.

We need a new strategy.

But keep saying it over and over again, if it makes you feel better.

The rest of us will continue operating in the reality-based world.

Oh - and I think you mean WHITE blue collar workers. That won't make your claim any less false, but at least get your terminology correct.

Why insult the working class, who are the same folks who helped make Obama the first African American President? Remind me, how many times did Hillary visit Wisconsin and Michigan compared to Obama? I would argue Obama showed us the way... Hillary's advisors did her no favors, sorry.

Turns my stomach to say this... certainly, no need to make insulting comments.

They could have been heroes and chose to be spoilers. They are directly responsible for Trump's election.They have (and deserve) the contempt of the 65,000,000.

In September and October, I was part of the ground game in a blue color area of a swing state. I don't need armchair theorists expounding on what we did wrong. We could have used their help when it counted.

And by the way, Obama won those constituencies (in part) due to Clinton's help. They voted solidly for Clinton in the 2008 primaries. Hillary worked hard to turn out her voters for Obama's run in the general election. I remember that because I was there as well.

And as I've been told by a resident know-it-all, those people shouldn't need a campaign visit to know to vote Democrat... except, the reality is that campaign stops work ... If they didn't, why would candidates bother doing them? I'm sick and tired of people papering over the shitty decisions Robby Mook & John Podesta made in fucking up what should have been a cakewalk.

They got out-smarted by fucking Donald Trump.... let that sink in for a minute. And Trump spent HALF of what Team Clinton did... Neither Podesta nor Mook should ever be allowed within 100 miles of the decision-making apparatus of ANY Democratic campaign. They are the biggest pair of incompetent fucksticks to ever fuck up an election in my lifetime. Hillary should kick them both in the goddamn balls, just on principle...

WI, PA, & MI would have gone blue with minimal effort. This was totally preventable and 100% inexcusable. I'm mad as hell, and my ire is directed at the idiots who screwed the goddamn pooch here. America & the Democratic Party both deserved better.

....and you're complaining about a strategy that WORKED?

If Clinton would have won without the interference, what was wrong with her strategy?

Yes, there were other factors that affected the outcome, but, nonetheless Hillary should have cruised to victory over the Orange Furher.

...and had something like a high 60s % chance of winning. Even halfway through election night she was still about 65% probability to win. She was ahead by anywhere from 5-10% ahead in most of the so-called swing states. Then around 9:30 or so things changed drastically. Within 30 minutes she was behind in just about every swing state.

since July. I'm going to respectfully suggest that you really don't know that much about what the campaign was actually doing. As for the media, why carry Hillary's policy speeches and small town hall events when you can get ratings with endless live coverage of the potential shit storm that was every Trump rally?

The Republicans
The Tea Party
The alt-right
Fake news outlets
Wikileaks
The Russians
The BoBs
The lazy no shows
The narcissistic no shows who only perform a basic and fundamental civic duty when they are "inspired"
The purists whose purity is somewhat lacking when it come to their preferred candidate
The odious Jill Stein
A corrupt and politicized FBI dropping a fabricated bombshell 10 days before the election

And I'll say it...

A former opponent with a strong following, largely absent from the general election campaign because he was busy writing his memoirs at his new lakefront vacation home so he could schedule a lucrative book tour for the week after the election.

And with all the help that Trump got, he still lost the popular vote.

I know who worked for Hillary and who worked against her. I'm at peace with the role I played in this election.

Are they? Are you?

I think you mean John Podesta who ran Hillary's campaign. In August, Trump/Republican operative Roger Stone gave his twitter followers a heads up that the Russians would be targeting Podesta next via Wikileaks. I wonder why a Trump operative already had that information?

https://twitter.com/rogerjstonejr/status/767366825743097856

Leon Panetta is a Democrat who has served his country in a variety of high level roles and positions for decades. Panetta was booed during his speech at the Democratic convention by the BoBs and by Stein supporters who had purchased (via Craig's List) the credentials of of delegates who left the convention after the first night.

... and, yes, it does make one wonder how Stone would have known that.

Yeah, I know, some people out there in the world are gonna swear they are because of their puritanical beliefs. It's not real, if it ever was. Reality has kicked our doors in, and it's not being gentle.

People live in regional bubbles. Which sometimes makes things prettier to their eyes than they really are. That's to be expected. I don't have such a privilege. I'm living in the midst of what some consider to be ground zero. I don't plan to sugar coat matters here.

The people I dealt were not just upset about economic related issues. Truthfully, that wasn't even a secondary discussion this year, if it was even mentioned. When it was mentioned it was by people who had been laid off due to the downturn in the oil industry. By majority, the people I spoke to were doing better than in 2007. They, basically said they hate us for our lack of understanding of them on racial equality, abortion, gay rights, immigration and guns. Just to name the top issues. They weren't shy about explaining it to me. Yes, people said they hate me, personally, for my political beliefs. That's a reality of being a leftist in rural America. It's a hostile environment. It's nothing like what people in secure blue regions think. I know, no one out there is still going to hear me, but at least once again I spoke out.

This is from a person who actually spoke to people in rural areas in 2016. I live there, and I worked my region. I'm not pretending to have a clue what motivated rural voters, just because I read an article. I'm being painfully frank.

From my experience the dichotomy between rural and urban does indeed reflect our views on social issues. It is certainly no secret that rural people tend to be more insular, and those I know have always been distrustful and fearful of the influence of "outsiders."

When I was young during the 1950s - early '60s, the issues you listed were not on our radar, but the "big city" ways were hated by my rural relatives: they feared the sins we would import, the breaking down of family bonds as young people were lured away from the farms and small towns into the cities, the rejection of the evangelical beliefs that formed the core of their existence. They simply wanted to be left alone in their communities where patriarchy and preachers ruled.

The Civil Rights movement, women's liberation, gays coming out of the closet, immigrants settling into wider areas were imposed by outside forces and all threatened their traditional way of life. These are the issues, far more than economic ones, that influence their votes and led to their intense hatred of liberals. The Southern Strategy, which imo spread far beyond the south, was successful primarily because of racism but also because of the loss of local control. Racism attracted both suburban and rural voters to the republican party, but I think loathing of feminism, the hippie counter-culture, and liberalization of some religions strongly influenced rural sentiments.

Those that I know or suspect voted for Trump bring up only social issues. My bubble is the south, and maybe it is different in the rust belt and other areas.

A very accurate and penetrating look at the political culture of rural America. Very well written as well. However, these folks usually vote Republican regardless.

living in rural areas too. They don't like these "new" ways (changes) like gay marriage... even abortion. I heard a lot more from friends in the rural areas about guns (Hillary's going to take my guns) than anything. The NRA was really out there. We got a ton of stuff from them in Florida and it was vicious. Someone had to stand up to the gun lobby and I think she did the right thing, but she got hammered for it.

There is a clear difference between the parties and there was a clear difference between Hillary Clinton and trump

Soon to be 'name removed' Troll!

clean up in isle 8 please.

and need to be shown the door. Just give it time.

Love you and Philly!

Name removed. Lol!

Divisive threads are not in our best interest.

Focus forward.

Dems didn't focus enough on insert-grudge-here, and that's why we lost. Hard to go forward with that going on. Pretending that there's this organized effort to bring everyone together is delusional.

Let's focus our efforts on the difficult task of building a coalition to defeat Trumpism.

I had quite a few friends who were spouting the "anyone but Hillary" BS, but all of them changed their tune when rump got elected.

I guess they felt safe in assuming that the rest of America would be smart enough to cancel out their protest votes.

I would love this forum to be shut down so we can move beyond the past and try to get a vision for the future.

seems like a decent wrap-up date
earlier than that and GD will be infested with pomo posts
but after that our concentration needs to be on the future, such as it is

That email / Benghazi "baggage" gets lighter by the day, doesn't it? Hope some self-awareness is dawning on you Hillary critics.

Basically the TOS threw them all out. You're speaking to an empty room. Can't you hear the echo?

It's totally harmless, then. No reason to even get upset about it.

Just enjoy the echo.

It's not harmless at all.

Another who didn't vote at the top of the ticket, still listed as active.

Cool story, fella. The TOS, being both inviolate and righteous, denies everything on DU but your mythical echo.

Hence, DU's achievement of 100% agreement on all matters.

Watching the amazing debates she won has me in mourning. The horror we find ourselves in now is like watching a loved one die of degenerative neurological disease. Lady liberty replaced by an evil puppet. I am trying to stay positive and press ahead but it has been very hard. I think we are in shock or going through the stages of grief while staring at a live version of Dante's nine circles of Hell. We have to press ahead. We are no good to ourselves or others if we don't.

Last edited Mon Dec 12, 2016, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)

And to those who insist we need a "new strategy" and that Hillary Clinton ignored the needs of workers, AND to those who want to "come together" and agree on "something," you know what? We need reminders about just why this disaster happened. With over 2 million popular vote differential, it's not "the Democrats" or the (defunct although some people seem to not know this) DLC, or Hillary Clinton. It's the non-voters, or the voters who will believe anything, or the "Anyone but Hillary" idiots.

The non-voters are a reality with which we have to deal. We can't just sit around and blame them for our losses. We either have to get them to vote for us, or get the folks that are voting to vote for us instead of the opposition.

And in either case, that will involve discussing the role of ALL the voters, including "The Democrats", and the DNC (I think you actually meant the DLC) and the other democratic candidates that lose races, and why Bernie was as popular as he was. It also means discussing why Bernie did so poorly in the south, something that a lot of people don't want to discuss.

Corrected now. Thanks!

And I'm sorry, I refuse to coddle idiots and spoiled children. It's one thing to GOTV (which I firmly believe in) and another to try to reason with the unreasonable.

Basically, you can pout about them all you want, but those "idiots and spoiled children" have another title. Potential Voters.

You have to admit, "basket of deplorables" was a really dumb thing to say, and I'm one who actually understood what she was TRYING to say.

that was a dumb thing to say. If anything, it wasn't strong enough and didn't include enough of them.

....Democrats gained several seats in the House, four seats in the Senate, and Clinton got more than 2.6 million more votes and it's highly questionable that she lost.

This after eight years of Barack Obama who won in 2008 and despite monumental obstruction by Congress was easily re-elected in 2012.

We still have a lot of work to do, but categorizing what has happened in recent years isn't the "losing" that some would like to think.

Look at all the races we lost and look at the results of the last 8 years. Is this the larger trend you want to sustain?

(And I'd celebrate as much as you would if a "Hamilton Electors" scenario put her in office, but do you actually think that's possible?)

Yes, I do realize that; at least I'm fairly sure of it. And???

The radical left is going to work with moderates?

Hey, I have a bridge in New Jersey that you want to buy.

But they TOLD US not to like her!!! She is just so mean.

I hope to hell that everydamn body that played that hillary hater role gets exactly what they deserve from Trump, and then some. And fuck trying to bring them back into the fold. No no no no no no.. We don't need folks starting fires inside of the tent. This last time we got our asses burned trying to be kind and shit. This is devastatinb for many of us and the last thing we need are the hillary haters trying to pretend we deserve this. They deserve this. I plan on reminding them that this is all their own faults, they should not be so stupid as to back a con artist for prez over a qualified woman.

Now once again DEMOCRTS are going to pick up the pieces, that is if any of us will be alive to do so. Many will die bravenak.

You and yours, stay safe.

They kept saying that shit over and over.

I would have fired his ass after that second letter.

Last edited Mon Dec 12, 2016, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

n/t.

It was a joke...not baiting.

You know, they'd be right between Foot Locker and Super Cuts?

Nothing political intended.

The people who post here know basically all voted and campaigned for her in the fall.

Lashing out at us serves no purpose, because we agree with you.

I had in mind the hate sites like JPR. Many of the Hill haters went there after the primary to bash Hill. I saw one mod over their saw it was A-Okay to call Hill the 'C' word.

Not quite sure why you are lecturing the people who basically agree with you.

I think you better read both posts more carefully.

PS. Are you now telling me where I can and cannot post now?

Suggesting

Are you the new hall monitor that tells us when to sit down and shut up?

Takes a lot to twist that much.

You can post where you want. I'm just suggesting where you might choose to.

But I don't want to make you think too hard or anything.

doing the easy thing is ... well ... easier?

She's not lashing out at you.

is leading our country into another "cuban missle crisis"

Or just play fallout 4

other positions, formerly lead by civilians, with military brass. If people aren't scared yet, they soon will be.

There have been many television interviews with Trump voters, and this is the rationale they use very often. Some of them are kind of apologetic about voting for Trump, but they call back to that "She is the most corrupt..." thing, and they hint they might have voted Democratic if we had given them a better candidate. Quite frankly, I think much of this is just bullshit, a smoke screen from people who wanted to vote for a clown, and would have, no matter what.

America is his new piggy bank. No money for us, all for him.

His hat should have read Make ME Great Again. I have no respect for anyone that voted for him, never will. I really don't know anyone that did in my circle. There is a possibility of two. One a nephew in law he has a young daughter. Breaks my heart. My beloved niece and grand niece, I fear for them.

and it is usually based on nothing.

I had learned my lesson from the 2000 election, when some said Bush and Gore were the same. Oy.

I read on a "True Progressives (TM)" site that Hillary was already planning WWIII, which she was plotting between having her political rivals murdered and while walking around in a body-brace because she's dying of several fatal diseases.

They assured everyone that Trump would be a better choice, because Hill was just so downright evil. In fact, he has some "really good ideas", and would fill his Cabinet with intelligent, well-intentioned people instead of "corporatists" and "establishment" types.

I was even told on FB (by one of the regular posters on said site) that I'd come to realize that "we'll all be better off without Hillary."

For some reason, he's been unusually silent since Trump won. I wonder why?

Look what we have!

P**sy grabber in chief. PREDITOR IN CHIEF'

AMERICA TODAY! OKAY WITH ASSAULTING WOMEN. Bravo! Assault woman, because it is your right, bravo prez elect and the perverts that voted for you. Hey rump. I am 100% positive that you molested your child. The pictures tell the story.

You and your supports are the sickest this society has ever breed.

His Cabinet is full of know white leaders and WHITE SUPREMISITS. Your cabinet wants to take out the minorities, every one of them. They want us dead.

The planes are circling and he has not even taken office. His tweets alone will cause WWIII

Lewandowski said that Trump isn't even President yet, and he's done more than Obama has in his 8 years of Presidency! Ain't that the truth...Trump isn't even President yet, and look at how much sh*t he's already caused around the world!!!

I've talked with 3 Trump voters this weekend

Ignorant #1 very pleased with the election. It's more about denying
specific groups their health care and supporting AG Sessions. This one
can't vote in his own self-interest because he doesn't know what that is.

Ignorant #2 Harry Reid didn't support nuclear power, it's all about
resurrecting the 1950s - whatever that means to him

Ignorant #3 Investigations of treason or espionage won't matter because
Chuck Schumer doesn't have the 'piss-ass' possibility of having the votes
to start an investigation. I'm not sure he understands a bit about the way
provocative espionage by a hostile foreign power might play in Washington.
Say what you will, this issue is DEEPLY ingrained for anyone who has heard
of the McCarthy hearings, the Red Scare - but not this Trump voter whom
I would classify as wrapped up in his own hatred with fixed positions and
very self-congratulatory about the election outcome.

I just don't know!

Who could live with that for eight years? Ugh!!1

... 'cuz I'm thinking a lot of people who did not vote for Hillary are now REALLY missing their chance to have done so!


"Miss me yet?"
?w=640&h=360



=====================

Thanks Beartracks...I sure miss her.

ALL about keeping WHITE MEN in power. More than anything. As to the rural disconnect, I live in a relatively rural area in a rust belt state. Lemme tell ya, these people are not reachable by us. They grab onto the latest CT as long as it serves their agenda of keeping women behind men, POC less than human, and foetus rights. Let's not forget the "gay sinners" here either

Makes me sick to my stomach.

We want to really make a difference in these areas? Enforce separation of church and state, to begin with. Make it so these pastors that preach politics from the pulpit IMMEDIATELY lose their tax exempt status.

Sorry she, went on a bit of a rant!

Love ya!

Well How Are They Enjoying The Bust That Will Soon Turn Into Bombs, More Wars, Stealing ACA, SS MEDICARE....millions will die. An Economy That Will Crumble Under The Donald....

And Sooo Much More....

Stealing ACA SS MEDICARE....millions will die.

Thanks Corey, I guess ignorance is bliss for some.

Without having an anxiety attack...like Appointing People To Run Agencies They Will Dismantle Like Scott Pruitt Who Made A Career Out Of Sueing The EPA, Will Now Run It...Sickening

You really should make an OP out of all this. If you do give me a heads up so I see it.

Oh, I know all about the anxiety attacks. Stay safe.

What are you on about?

The sit-outs and Stein voters don't seem to have dented the overall vote totals.

I blame Trump voters in a handful of states. That seems closer to the mark and less divisive.

Why did Obama win those states? Why was Hillary unable to gain traction on Trump there?

Seems bigger than the Stein voters.

Some of them just want to watch the Democrats burn. They got it.