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kentuck

(112,767 posts)
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:30 PM Dec 2016

"Donald Trump won because Hillary was such a terrible candidate".

How many times have you heard that?

But, we should keep it in perspective. Donald Trump defeated 16 Republicans before he ran against Hillary Clinton, including Jeb Bush, John Kasich, and Marco Rubio, who was to be the new GOP savior. Were they all terrible candidates also?

It was much more than that, and we all know it.

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Donald Trump won because Hillary was such a terrible candidate". (Original Post) kentuck Dec 2016 OP
And if the "terrible candidate" actually received more votes, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #1
And she's head by almost 3 million votes La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #2
Which doesn't count under the electoral college. LisaL Dec 2016 #34
Trump did the same thing in the republican primary that he did in the general election mtnsnake Dec 2016 #3
You know there's two guys who never bought that pack of lies... dionysus Dec 2016 #18
She won all the debates and had a great convention. But the fake email scandal was devastating. StevieM Dec 2016 #4
I also believe Comey cost us the election. LisaL Dec 2016 #35
donnie won first and foremost because the horrendous media. unblock Dec 2016 #5
You know what else didn't help? The idea that election was "in the bag." LisaL Dec 2016 #36
He took down Jeb HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #6
Don't forget - the RNC was hacked by Russian intelligence. So were individual candidates. I often BlueCaliDem Dec 2016 #9
So Kasich is the only one with no Russian oppo file? HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #12
Could be. OR he really DGAF. eom BlueCaliDem Dec 2016 #17
No, Trump won because Clinton not only had to run against Trump but had to fight the media, Alekzander Dec 2016 #7
+1 oasis Dec 2016 #22
The media was able to present Trump as a political outsider running against the corrupt jalan48 Dec 2016 #8
He didnt win anything libtodeath Dec 2016 #10
Well yeah melman Dec 2016 #11
I am going to punch anyone Emilybemily Dec 2016 #13
Trump won because of many reasons. BigBoss26 Dec 2016 #14
Absolutely. randome Dec 2016 #15
It was mostly Comey, voter suppression and Russia and HRC isn't perfect but doesn't bear the onus uponit7771 Dec 2016 #21
There was not a better candidate out there Generic Brad Dec 2016 #16
Not really. Kentonio Dec 2016 #30
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #38
"Both of the party's nominated the only person the other side could beat" Axolotls Dec 2016 #19
Comey, Voter suppression, Russia... !!!! uponit7771 Dec 2016 #20
"Donald Trump won because the KGB hacked our democracy and committed an ACT OF WAR" LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #23
Fuck this shit. (nt) Paladin Dec 2016 #24
I don't think Hillary was a terrible candidate. PragmaticLiberal Dec 2016 #25
Trump was a "better campaigner" because he was willing to say ANYTHING emulatorloo Dec 2016 #28
She lost because she's a terrible campaigner. Exilednight Dec 2016 #26
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #39
tell me Hillary's ecomomic message in 3 to 5 words. Exilednight Dec 2016 #41
Republican self-destruction in primaries was hardly a new phenomenon. Midwestern Democrat Dec 2016 #27
Democrats failed to recognize 2016 was a change election even with Obama being popular. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #29
she wasn't a terrrible candidate but she was a terrible okieinpain Dec 2016 #31
and don't let me forget the deal okieinpain Dec 2016 #32
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #40
Well, lets face it. She had high negatives (due to years and years of republicans going after her) LisaL Dec 2016 #33
just numbers djsunyc Dec 2016 #37
The thing is that Hillary Clinton almost won in a landslide andym Dec 2016 #42

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
1. And if the "terrible candidate" actually received more votes,
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:32 PM
Dec 2016

what does that make Trump? The worst candidate?

mtnsnake

(22,236 posts)
3. Trump did the same thing in the republican primary that he did in the general election
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:34 PM
Dec 2016

He lied about himself and he insulted everyone, and the fools bought into it.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
18. You know there's two guys who never bought that pack of lies...
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:12 AM
Dec 2016

Brewer and Shipley!

One toke over the line sweet mtnsnake, one toke over the line...

StevieM

(10,540 posts)
4. She won all the debates and had a great convention. But the fake email scandal was devastating.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:36 PM
Dec 2016

The most successful fake scandal in world history.

By the time Comey interfered in the election to help the Republicans there was nothing more that could be done.

I am sure he would have found a way to do the same thing somehow to Bernie Sanders or Martin O'Malley.

LisaL

(46,601 posts)
35. I also believe Comey cost us the election.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 05:25 PM
Dec 2016

Unfortunately as he isn't punished what is going to stop the same thing from happening in the future?

unblock

(54,151 posts)
5. donnie won first and foremost because the horrendous media.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:37 PM
Dec 2016

and then aided by multiple disenfranchisement laws and regulations.

would fdr or jfk or anyone else have done better? honestly? fdr, the media would have blasted as a "cripple" who can't "stand up" for america, and a communist to boot. and something about goldman sachs. and jfk could have given the speech of the century, and the media would have cut away to donnie's empty podium.

LisaL

(46,601 posts)
36. You know what else didn't help? The idea that election was "in the bag."
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 05:27 PM
Dec 2016

This site also bought into it.
So some people felt perfectly fine writing in Bugs Bunny or staying home (or voting for third party) because election was in the bag.
Only it wasn't.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
6. He took down Jeb
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:41 PM
Dec 2016

The Republican darling with all the funding and a swing state in his back pocket. I think that is when people started freaking out.

Lets remember that through the summer and past the first debate, Trump was Hillary's dream opponent. There was zero chance of losing.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
9. Don't forget - the RNC was hacked by Russian intelligence. So were individual candidates. I often
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 01:41 PM
Dec 2016

wondered why the other Republican candidates didn't come out swinging against Trump while he was swinging hard against them at all the debates. My only logical answer is: they knew that they were hacked and their e-mails and information would be used against them if they tried to fight back hard.

Putin wanted Trump from the get-go. He was the one he wanted elected as POTUS. The other Republicans weren't as friendly toward the dictator of Russia.

And now Trump won.

Coincidence? Don't think so.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
12. So Kasich is the only one with no Russian oppo file?
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:10 PM
Dec 2016

He was the last to go. And still had plenty to say after that.

 

Alekzander

(479 posts)
7. No, Trump won because Clinton not only had to run against Trump but had to fight the media,
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:55 PM
Dec 2016

FBI, a completely foreign power & adversary-Russia & their leader Putin, WikiLeaks & our very own media that was complicit in allowing Trump to downplay his bribing of State Attorney Generals, his own so-called charity foundation, the Trump University which should have been covered more as well with its fraud, non-release of Trump tax returns, Trumps conflict of interests while constantly going after Clinton saying she had to divest herself of their charity.

I mean, good candidate or not, who could go up against all of the things Clinton had to fight & win. Even with all of that, she still won the American people's vote which to me is more honest than the other EC.

jalan48

(14,393 posts)
8. The media was able to present Trump as a political outsider running against the corrupt
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 01:02 PM
Dec 2016

Washington Establishment. Issues were always secondary to personality. Let's face it, most American's aren't politically savvy.

libtodeath

(2,892 posts)
10. He didnt win anything
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 01:46 PM
Dec 2016

he stole enough states to be installed by a racist system laid out by a racist country.

BigBoss26

(25 posts)
14. Trump won because of many reasons.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 02:42 PM
Dec 2016

Bigotry, voter disenfranchisement, garbage media, Russian influence and, yes, some mistakes from Hillary.

It's ok to acknowledge that our candidate had some baggage/shortcomings and also acknowledge that there were outside influences too. People looking for one singular answer are way off the mark.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
15. Absolutely.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:20 PM
Dec 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Generic Brad

(14,374 posts)
16. There was not a better candidate out there
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 04:22 PM
Dec 2016

If there were, that person would have won the party's nomination.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
30. Not really.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 04:27 AM
Dec 2016

The party apparently forgot we were supposed to be picking the candidate who would be most likely to win nationwide, not just with the Democratic base. Hillary's unfavourables showed that she was going to go into that race with serious problems even before the Republicans started campaigning properly against her.

Response to Kentonio (Reply #30)

Axolotls

(21 posts)
19. "Both of the party's nominated the only person the other side could beat"
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:54 AM
Dec 2016

I forget which gop official/insider said that, but I think it's right on the money. Yes, Trump took out 16 other candidates in the primaries, some of which were experienced and/or well-funded so it's obvious they all weren't crappy...but keep in mind the republican rank-and-file were hungry for someone like Trump. He came along at just the right moment...the time was ripe for him. Doubtful if any other cycle he would've gotten off the ground and in such a big way.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
23. "Donald Trump won because the KGB hacked our democracy and committed an ACT OF WAR"
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 05:43 AM
Dec 2016

Republicans helped them, and Obama rolled over for it

PragmaticLiberal

(915 posts)
25. I don't think Hillary was a terrible candidate.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 06:08 AM
Dec 2016

But with that being said, I think she had certain weaknesses.....weaknesses which Trump exploited.


I think Hillary would have been a fine President but honestly, I just don't think she was a great campaigner....and unfortunately for her, that's part of the game as well.

emulatorloo

(45,567 posts)
28. Trump was a "better campaigner" because he was willing to say ANYTHING
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:48 AM
Dec 2016

to get elected. Made promises he cannot keep regarding Coal and Manufacturing. Demonized the other, etc etc. He told people lies they wanted to hear.

And yes he has a certain charisma that few people have. That counts a lot with some voters.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
26. She lost because she's a terrible campaigner.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 07:46 AM
Dec 2016

Trump was a terrible candidate, but knew how to campaign.

Response to Exilednight (Reply #26)

27. Republican self-destruction in primaries was hardly a new phenomenon.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 08:05 AM
Dec 2016

They flirted with it in 2012 when multiple un-electable candidates traded the polling lead before they finally bowed to reality and nominated Romney. They threw away at least three guaranteed Senate seats (Indiana, Delaware, Nevada) in past cycles by nominating the worst candidate possible. I don't think there's any doubt that Bush, Kasich, or Rubio would have been much more formidable candidates than Trump - all of them would have had the full support of their party; would have had far more money; would have had far better campaign operations. I think 3 million Gary Johnson voters (his increase between 2012 and 2016) would have voted for these guys. My own guess - these three men all would have won the national popular vote, would have won all the Trump states (with the possible exception of Michigan), and probably would have also won NH, MN, VA, CO, and NV.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
29. Democrats failed to recognize 2016 was a change election even with Obama being popular.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:51 AM
Dec 2016

Parts of the country have done very well over the past 8 years. Others did not do so well and were eager for change of any kind.

okieinpain

(9,397 posts)
31. she wasn't a terrrible candidate but she was a terrible
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 05:14 PM
Dec 2016

campaigner. this mess about playing psych games with trump about which states they were going to campaign in and not going to your must have states was just total bullshit.

also i have to admit seeing sen. sanders doing that town hall with chris hayes is just something i don't think hillary could do.

okieinpain

(9,397 posts)
32. and don't let me forget the deal
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 05:16 PM
Dec 2016

with how they spent money. the african-american community saved her ass in the primaries and for them to not be able to spend more then 2% of their campaign dollars with african american businesses is a freakin embarrassment.

Response to okieinpain (Reply #31)

LisaL

(46,601 posts)
33. Well, lets face it. She had high negatives (due to years and years of republicans going after her)
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 05:21 PM
Dec 2016

to begin with.
That was a known fact.
Trump also had high negatives but republicans apparently fall in line no matter what their candidate is.

djsunyc

(169 posts)
37. just numbers
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 09:31 PM
Dec 2016

trump is president and hillary isn't b/c alot of liberals couldn't think of the bigger picture and couldn't get over their own sh t.

andym

(5,683 posts)
42. The thing is that Hillary Clinton almost won in a landslide
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:37 AM
Dec 2016

After the Access Hollywood revelations she was about 10% ahead and at about 50% of the voters according to the polls. The biggest problem in the election was that Hillary Clinton was a vulnerable candidate, because her favorability was around 35%. That allowed the Comey letter and to a lesser extent the Wikileaks stuff to hurt her campaign. Her favorability was low because of a concerted effort by the GOP to neutralize her over several years and they then got very lucky (unfortunately for us) with the FBI investigation of the email server.

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