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adigal

(7,581 posts)
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 02:52 PM Dec 2016

So What Would It Take for Many of You To Be Rude to Ivanka???

So many of you got the vapors that a gay man was rude to Ivanka in front of her children. You compared Ivanka falsely to Sasha and Malia, which is a false equivalence as she has been, and is, an active part of his campaign and Administration. (A logical response would have been to compare Barron and Sasha, but you polite people didn't do that. And i would agree that to accost Barron, a child, would be wrong.) Ivanka worked on his campaign, works on his transition team, sits in on meetings and wants an active role, a West Wing office. She is not an innocent bystander here.

So i'm curious as to what it would take for you to say something to Ivanka and her asshole husband who worked with Bannon on having Bill Clinton's accusers at the 2nd debate? Even if her children were there? Let's play, shall we?

If Muslims were having to register, would you speak out to Ivanka, even if her children got upset?
How many of you polite folks would put your names on that registry?

How about if they marched Muslim children into camps like we have done in our not so distant history? Would you still worry about optics and upsetting her children? I bet you would still not speak out, because we Dems dont so such mean things. (And I wonder how George Takei, who was put in a camp as a child, felt about that man speaking out to Ivanka yesterday?)

How about sending Dreamers back to countries they havent seen since infant hood?? Puliing them out of their homes, onto buses, into detention centers to be processed to be sent back to the country they were taken from as children? Would you say something yet to Ivanka, who is demanding an office in the West Wing. Or would you be loathe to upset her and the children? Just be polite! The other side might say mean things about us.

These are all things Trump has promised to do. I get that it's very scary to take him at his word, terrifying to think that these are not normal times. He is not a normal Republican. That he will try to do what he says. But there is a very good possibility that Trump will do as he said he will do. Do you think Obama is believing him? If not, why is he dismantling that program that tracked Muslims here illegally after 9/11. Take Trump at his word. And Ivanka is part of his team.

Oh, i forgot! This can't happen here! We aren't like that! Yet we are. And the sooner we realize that 25% of Americans would happily march Muslims and Latinos off, and many of you would remain silent from how upset you get at someone exercised his right to speak out about bigotry, the more we can see who would fight this and who would not. The sooner we start to speak up, even if feelings get bruised, or children get startled, the sooner they will know that we are not too nice to stand up for our neighbors, against injustice. They need to know that as soon as possible.

The difference between us and Republicans is they take a no-holds barred approach and they're doing it in their fight to hurt people. Even when we are being hurt or defending the weak, Democrats want to be kind and mannerly and polite. Even when it may be life or death. You must always be polite and not offend.

I'm not even going to respond to you saying how mean i am. Because i think many Americans are being willfully blind and ignorant about what this man, led by Bannon, has in store for us.

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So What Would It Take for Many of You To Be Rude to Ivanka??? (Original Post) adigal Dec 2016 OP
It would serve no constructive purpose.. CentralMass Dec 2016 #1
I'd have NO problem telling her to proceed with self-fornication! lastlib Dec 2016 #19
The situation did not warrant such rude behavior to me, esp. in a confined commutation setting. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #42
Exactly, and especially this is not appropriate on a plane. cwydro Dec 2016 #46
Yes, it should. And that should be started from the top of the party. Bohunk68 Dec 2016 #54
Then we are no better than they are EffieBlack Dec 2016 #58
Then, one has to ask what is your purpose? Bohunk68 Dec 2016 #65
I generally leave candidates' children alone crazycatlady Dec 2016 #2
I would probably ignore her. Ilsa Dec 2016 #3
As many pointed out, it's not so much whether it's appropriate to vent at Ivanka... Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2016 #4
Yeah, that's a guarantee that you're going to get thrown off the plane. NT mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2016 #30
I just need to see her on the street and then I will speak my mind. LonePirate Dec 2016 #5
Even these ones? NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #55
The presence of kids should not deter one from speaking against the destruction of our country. LonePirate Dec 2016 #56
What the hell is wrong with you? NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #62
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #63
That's just plain DUMB NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #64
It bothered me that her children were there Siwsan Dec 2016 #6
Who the hell can afford her merchandise? meow2u3 Dec 2016 #20
I confess, I have no idea where they are sold Siwsan Dec 2016 #21
Are you kidding? I saw an Ivanka Trump sweater at TJ Maxx. SMC22307 Dec 2016 #22
I saw a ***** shirt at the Goodwill last year. mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2016 #32
A lot of her stuff is under 100 bucks. Some under 50 Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #26
I would never be rude to her. Why should I? On a plane is just dumb. yeoman6987 Dec 2016 #7
I agree about Sasha and Malia forthemiddle Dec 2016 #8
You can't really compare Chelsea to Ivanka. avebury Dec 2016 #11
some people would catsudon Dec 2016 #16
Just remind her that many of the people who want Muslims to register greymattermom Dec 2016 #9
Hurling verbal abuse at strangers doesn't convice them. Throd 2.0 Dec 2016 #10
I agree. SharonClark Dec 2016 #12
I would give her the finger Emilybemily Dec 2016 #13
Her and cheato want policies that will cause thousands of children to starve to death or die libtodeath Dec 2016 #14
It would take one of two things mythology Dec 2016 #15
She's a completed entitled dumb ass BigDemVoter Dec 2016 #17
For her to be on a stage speaking in public. What the hell is your problem? Hekate Dec 2016 #18
I think what really bothers me about all this, yagotme Dec 2016 #23
Perfectly said EffieBlack Dec 2016 #59
I suspect that tweeting that you are going after the President Elect's daughter traditionally gets HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #66
Possible candidate for no-fly list also, I presume. n/t yagotme Dec 2016 #68
Near proximity. (n/t) Iggo Dec 2016 #24
I would probably ask her how she can sleep at night. hamsterjill Dec 2016 #25
If she has a role in the administration, she is fair game. sfwriter Dec 2016 #27
at first sight. MFM008 Dec 2016 #28
Ivanka plans to champion climate change and child care within the Trump admin HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #29
Bullshit. You don't appoint climate change deniers and then pretend "First Lady Daughter" is going LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #33
Straight up. Iggo Dec 2016 #37
Thank you for this. People should not claim the moral high ground while they're standing in bullshit LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #31
Well, she would have to be within shouting distance from me. Yup. That would do it. n/t Binkie The Clown Dec 2016 #34
I would remove myself from where any of them appeared. JNelson6563 Dec 2016 #35
Ivanka and Trump better go everywhere with their children as shields! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #36
It would take Chelsea Clinton de-friending her. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #38
Nothing. I am not a classless asshole. phleshdef Dec 2016 #39
What part of her workong in the West Wing, sitting in on Daddy's meetings, adigal Dec 2016 #40
Don't care. Not gonna harass her. Act like a grown up. phleshdef Dec 2016 #41
Grown ups speak up when people enable evil adigal Dec 2016 #43
If you think harassing someone on a plane in front of their kids... phleshdef Dec 2016 #45
It's NOT harassment...it's speaking up nt adigal Dec 2016 #47
Its achieving absolutely nothing other than to make the Trump family looks like sympathetic figures. phleshdef Dec 2016 #48
Exactly... you probably can't buy positive press like that... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #67
I wouldn't, because they wouldn't care, and i wouldn't want the hassle of dionysus Dec 2016 #44
I would just be cool, or maybe a bit aloof.... Wounded Bear Dec 2016 #49
I don't treat people rude, IMO you do more harm them good Raine Dec 2016 #50
Why did you call out the man's sexual orientation? nt MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #51
Because as a gay man, the Trump adminstration wants to take away his rights adigal Dec 2016 #69
No sympathy MFM008 Dec 2016 #52
I think I could find more constructive and productive things to worry about. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #53
I was raised not to be rude to anyone - and not to lower my personal standards of behavior based EffieBlack Dec 2016 #57
There is a difference between speaking one's mind and being a rude jerk EffieBlack Dec 2016 #60
Ivanka iis probably the only woman in the USA who would be safer by walking around in a birka. enid602 Dec 2016 #61

lastlib

(24,905 posts)
19. I'd have NO problem telling her to proceed with self-fornication!
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 09:39 PM
Dec 2016

AND take her daddy with her! She is making an adult decision to participate in this clusterf*ck of a regime, and its policies, she owns them nearly as much as he does. Like someone told me once, "It's the COWARD who 'just goes along'--and the world has enough cowards."

TheBlackAdder

(28,912 posts)
42. The situation did not warrant such rude behavior to me, esp. in a confined commutation setting.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 05:36 PM
Dec 2016

.


This whole "telling people off" thing is really devolving our culture and discourse.

While I am not in any way favorable to her practices or family behavior, I would have come to her defense.


This bullshit of harassing people in a public setting should end.


.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
46. Exactly, and especially this is not appropriate on a plane.
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 10:23 AM
Dec 2016

What a great example they set for their own child. Not.

Bohunk68

(1,364 posts)
54. Yes, it should. And that should be started from the top of the party.
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 06:09 AM
Dec 2016

Because those are the people with the most influence. Like another DU'er posted: You can't reason people out of a position they did not reason themselves into. The Trumps should suffer the same consequences of their evilness as anyone else, regardless of their gender. They made the original offensive remarks, then they should defend those remarks.

Bohunk68

(1,364 posts)
65. Then, one has to ask what is your purpose?
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 04:35 AM
Dec 2016

Is it the same as everyone else's? Or, have you got a different agenda? Being "better" than someone else is only in your own eyes and accomplishes, what? It only makes the person who says it, feel superior about themselves.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
2. I generally leave candidates' children alone
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 02:57 PM
Dec 2016

They did not sign up for this and their privacy should be respected. HOwever, I make an exception for children who take an active role in the campaign and put themselves in the spotlight.

Of Trump's kids, only Barron and Tiffany should be left alone. Ivanka, Jr, and Eric are fair game. Especially if Ivanka is assuming the role of FLOTUS

Ilsa

(62,236 posts)
3. I would probably ignore her.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:03 PM
Dec 2016

If she asked anything of me, then I'd tell her to go suck it because she helped get her monster daddy elected.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,847 posts)
4. As many pointed out, it's not so much whether it's appropriate to vent at Ivanka...
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:06 PM
Dec 2016

It's whether it's appropriate to do it while boarding an airplane, giving all indications that you'll continue to do it once it's airborne.

LonePirate

(13,893 posts)
5. I just need to see her on the street and then I will speak my mind.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:06 PM
Dec 2016

Fuck every last one of those Nazi-enabling, country destroying assholes.

LonePirate

(13,893 posts)
56. The presence of kids should not deter one from speaking against the destruction of our country.
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 12:19 PM
Dec 2016

What's more important to you? Being polite in front of her children or planting a seed in her head that might convince her to pull her father back from the brink of destroying this country?

The time for civility has past given the grave threats we now face.

 

NoGoodNamesLeft

(2,056 posts)
62. What the hell is wrong with you?
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 07:13 PM
Dec 2016

You NEVER behave in a way that could EVER even potentially harm a child. NEVER...not even in speaking out against the orange asshole. You NEVER, NEVER, NEVER do ANYTHING to harm a child. The second you pull that shit you are no better than the orange douche bag.

Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #62)

 

NoGoodNamesLeft

(2,056 posts)
64. That's just plain DUMB
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 07:58 PM
Dec 2016

I'll warn you right now that if you think for one second that trying to guilt me or anyone else into agreeing with such an absolutely ignorant notion will work you have got another thing coming.

First...young children should NEVER be exposed to the kind of happy horseshit you and some others are promoting. It is TRAUMATIC to do that to a child. There is a name for that and it's called CHILD ABUSE. Only a completely daft shit for brains would go out of their way to approach, confront and start shit with parents in the presence of a child. ANYONE who would do that is a sorry excuse for a human being and is JUST as bad as the alt-right assholes that are trying to use intimidating to force and scare people into agreeing with their twisted thinking.

Saying that anyone who would not be a child abuser supports Trump is the most idiotic thing I think I have ever seen. I swear that I've been seeing more hatred and vile bullshit posted right here on this site than I've ever had the displeasure or witnessing before. It's mighty UGLY. So that is what this website has become? Hatred, ugliness and idiocy? If that's how it's going to be then Democrats deserve to lose.

Siwsan

(27,286 posts)
6. It bothered me that her children were there
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:06 PM
Dec 2016

Could have just been her daughter - not sure - but no child should be subjected to that sort of fright.

The best way to confront Ivanka is by not buying her merchandise.

meow2u3

(24,919 posts)
20. Who the hell can afford her merchandise?
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 10:05 PM
Dec 2016

besides millionaires and billionaires?

Wealthy Dems, boycott Ivanka. We poor folks boycott her stuff by default.

Siwsan

(27,286 posts)
21. I confess, I have no idea where they are sold
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 10:31 PM
Dec 2016

I saw the list of stores on the boycott list and some of them were not particularly high end.

But regardless, it bothers me that this happened in front of her children. Not being able to afford her clothes does not make that ok.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
22. Are you kidding? I saw an Ivanka Trump sweater at TJ Maxx.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 10:37 PM
Dec 2016

I don't know anything about her line, but I picked it up, then put it right back down when I saw the label. Forgot to check which cheap-labor country it was made.

mahatmakanejeeves

(60,935 posts)
32. I saw a ***** shirt at the Goodwill last year.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 12:00 AM
Dec 2016

I looked it over. Cheap material, godawful styling. Overall, dreadful. Nothing I'd want to wear, ever.

 

Johnathan146

(141 posts)
26. A lot of her stuff is under 100 bucks. Some under 50
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:32 PM
Dec 2016

Sure 100 bucks for a sweatshirt or dress is too expensive for some people, but you dont have to be a millionaire to afford it.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
7. I would never be rude to her. Why should I? On a plane is just dumb.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:08 PM
Dec 2016

On a plane with her children even worse. Just made the guy look dumb for no reason.

forthemiddle

(1,434 posts)
8. I agree about Sasha and Malia
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:08 PM
Dec 2016

They are not equivalent, but how would you feel if someone accosted Chelsea in front of her children?
She certainly took an active role in the Clinton campaign.

avebury

(11,073 posts)
11. You can't really compare Chelsea to Ivanka.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:40 PM
Dec 2016

I can't see Chelsea sitting in on meetings with her Mother and a foreign leader. I don't see Chelsea ever taking an office and office staff in the WH. I don't see Chelsea's husband pushing himself into the WH and trying to publicly influence policy. I don't ever see Chelsea as acting like a co-President the way Ivanka, Jr and Eric do. I don't see Chelsea selling access to the WH and the Presidency. Chelsea has always handled her self with grace and dignity. The Trump family are nothing but grifters.

Yes Chelsea supported her mother as a daughter would not, not as a way to try to profit the family brand. Chelsea and Ivanka are polar opposites.

catsudon

(873 posts)
16. some people would
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 08:47 PM
Dec 2016

But you can compare to chelsea to ivanka... stay with me now.

OF COURSE we (ie, our side) do NOT see them as same (although I still remember they were good friends at one point).

The Right would come up with something to paint it in a way we paint ivanka. saying it is a false equivalency is true from only our point view and possibly some independents.

So, yes it is bad optics, and I certainly don't want an unhinged right winger accosting Chelsea with her child in the plane due to her involvement in the Clinton foundation. It just looks bad.

greymattermom

(5,794 posts)
9. Just remind her that many of the people who want Muslims to register
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:10 PM
Dec 2016

think the same thing about Jews. Pretend to be one of their fans, and ask when she is going to register.

 

Throd 2.0

(62 posts)
10. Hurling verbal abuse at strangers doesn't convice them.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 03:28 PM
Dec 2016

It might make you feel better to lash out at them, but if your goal is make them rethink their position, it isn't a very effective tactic.

Emilybemily

(204 posts)
13. I would give her the finger
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 04:01 PM
Dec 2016

Right to the face if I ever saw that little turd. She does not fall into the category of Presidential children.

libtodeath

(2,892 posts)
14. Her and cheato want policies that will cause thousands of children to starve to death or die
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 04:02 PM
Dec 2016

from lack of health care.
I dont give a shit about playing nice with such monsters.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
15. It would take one of two things
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 08:33 PM
Dec 2016

Either I'd have to become a much worse human being, or I'd need to see evidence that acting like an asshat is productive.

I'm sorry you think this is appropriate or productive behavior. If the guy had merely said "hey your dad is a bigot and commits sexual assault" and walked off, I'd have no objections. But acting like Trump or the worst of his supporters isn't helpful.

BigDemVoter

(4,544 posts)
17. She's a completed entitled dumb ass
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 09:09 PM
Dec 2016

but I would probably ignore her. She's about as deep as a dime and doesn't even merit a second thought.

Hekate

(94,641 posts)
18. For her to be on a stage speaking in public. What the hell is your problem?
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 09:28 PM
Dec 2016

Do you WANT to be roughed up by Daddy's thugs? Do you WANT to be hustled off in handcuffs? Please let us know if martyrdom is your aim, because it surely is not mine.

yagotme

(3,816 posts)
23. I think what really bothers me about all this,
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 10:42 PM
Dec 2016

is that if you boil it down to the basics, a person confronted another person on an aircraft, the first person was the aggressor, appearing to the crew that this was not going to calm down, therefore the first person was ejected from the flight. Politics or not, this was just not a good place/time for this. Ivanka and family (kids, too) are paid customers of that flight, and being openly harassed wasn't a nice thing to do. I know, the theme is to no longer be nice, stand up, make your voice heard, but unless you want to come off as the right wingers believe you to be, a total jerk, then time your protest to the betterment of the party. Smarter thing would have been to say something while disembarking, providing "escape" possibilities for all involved. Doing this at the beginning of a flight, in coach, wasn't very bright.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
66. I suspect that tweeting that you are going after the President Elect's daughter traditionally gets
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 05:12 AM
Dec 2016

you Secret Service attention for the rest of your life. Making sure that your whereabouts are known when the President is in the same town (NYC), that sort of thing. In any case, you are on someone's naughty list.

hamsterjill

(15,509 posts)
25. I would probably ask her how she can sleep at night.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:26 PM
Dec 2016

I don't believe for one second that she or her husband or brothers are innocents. They have learned from the master as to screwing people over.

 

sfwriter

(3,032 posts)
27. If she has a role in the administration, she is fair game.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:35 PM
Dec 2016

Access, the first lady's office etc. would open her up for me. After that, the level of outrage should match her actions.

I'm a public shaming advocate in cases like this. I loved it when someone ruined Condi Rice's shoe shopping trip.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
29. Ivanka plans to champion climate change and child care within the Trump admin
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:46 PM
Dec 2016

It would take writing off those issues. Unless you feel that being rude will get her to lend more support rather than less.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
33. Bullshit. You don't appoint climate change deniers and then pretend "First Lady Daughter" is going
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 12:01 AM
Dec 2016

to undo it.

And FUCK the whiny veiled threat of "don't be mean to her, she might not lend support to your cause". That is some straight up bullshit right there.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
31. Thank you for this. People should not claim the moral high ground while they're standing in bullshit
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:58 PM
Dec 2016

She should called out for aiding and abetting the enemy at every turn. Fuck these motherfuckers.

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
35. I would remove myself from where any of them appeared.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 01:23 AM
Dec 2016

And would be subtle but clear about why I was leaving the area.

That's as rude as I would get because I (sometimes) like to keep that higher ground.

 

Madam45for2923

(7,178 posts)
36. Ivanka and Trump better go everywhere with their children as shields!
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 08:45 AM
Dec 2016

and thus welcome to proceed with their NAZI/Putin plans!

Buckeye_Democrat

(15,042 posts)
38. It would take Chelsea Clinton de-friending her.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 01:55 PM
Dec 2016

I follow whatever the Clintons do.


I wouldn't do much more than express my concerns about her father as President. If I only had about 10 seconds to get down to essentials, I'd suggest that her father spend more time learning about reality and less time yapping!

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
39. Nothing. I am not a classless asshole.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 02:49 PM
Dec 2016

Ivanka is nothing to me, not a threat, not an enemy. Donald Dipshit is a threat and my enemy.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
40. What part of her workong in the West Wing, sitting in on Daddy's meetings,
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 03:05 PM
Dec 2016

Being a part of his team did you miss?

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
43. Grown ups speak up when people enable evil
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 09:30 PM
Dec 2016

Ivanka gets a pass, I guess, because she is a pretty blonde. People dont see her evil.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
45. If you think harassing someone on a plane in front of their kids...
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 08:58 AM
Dec 2016

...is acting like an adult, then your opinion on being a grown up is worthless. Furthermore, if you believe is achieved anything positive for our side, then we really don't need you on our side anymore as you are a childish liability.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
48. Its achieving absolutely nothing other than to make the Trump family looks like sympathetic figures.
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 02:14 PM
Dec 2016

....to any NORMAL human being.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
67. Exactly... you probably can't buy positive press like that...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:35 AM
Dec 2016

poor, poor Ivanka and her children... that is what 99.9% of rational people thought.

If the Left spends the next 4 years acting like pissy-pants toddlers screaming at women and children, Trump will coast to re-election in 4 years. I believe we'll fare better if we stick to the facts and leave the infantile emotionalism to the opposition.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
44. I wouldn't, because they wouldn't care, and i wouldn't want the hassle of
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 05:14 AM
Dec 2016

Being accosted by their security, or police.

There isnt any possible return on that investment.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
69. Because as a gay man, the Trump adminstration wants to take away his rights
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 08:34 PM
Dec 2016

And "re-educate him" with electro-shock treament.

How do you NOT know this?

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
57. I was raised not to be rude to anyone - and not to lower my personal standards of behavior based
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 12:26 PM
Dec 2016

upon the behavior or morals of others.

My activism and advocacy are in no way undermined by not treating the family members of those I disdain with rudeness and incivility.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
60. There is a difference between speaking one's mind and being a rude jerk
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 12:37 PM
Dec 2016

Unfortunately, it seems that some of us don't understand the distinction and, thus, are lurching toward the latter.

enid602

(9,045 posts)
61. Ivanka iis probably the only woman in the USA who would be safer by walking around in a birka.
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 02:22 PM
Dec 2016

For sure

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