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uponit7771

(91,754 posts)
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 08:58 PM Dec 2016

If this election was free and fair then of course someone else could've won it

... But for those of us who do NOT believe this election was free and fair the supposition that someone else could've won sound like

- victim blaming
- FUD meme
- asinine, backward Trump voter type thinking

Where am I off here?

Thx in advance

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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tenorly

(2,037 posts)
1. "Eeees OK," says Vladimir.
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 09:05 PM
Dec 2016

"As long as you Americans use those nifty, read-and-write software voting and tabulation machines, NO ONE will 'win it' unless I say eeees OK."

"Nasdrovia!"

uponit7771

(91,754 posts)
2. Someone said Russia and Comey and Voter suppression was nothing new in response to free...
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 09:10 PM
Dec 2016

... and fair.

IDK wtf people are thinking here

tenorly

(2,037 posts)
3. It's amazing how quickly the abnormal can get normalized, even among smart people.
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 09:13 PM
Dec 2016

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

[center]— Voltaire[/center]

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
4. If it had been free and fair it could be audited and recounted...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:02 AM
Dec 2016

...and the reason for every voter denied access would be known.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
8. There's the issue that there is no evidence that the actual voting wasn't free
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:09 AM
Dec 2016

So if you're starting off on a false premise, then your conclusions are also likely to be wrong.

If you are alleging that the vote wasn't free, you need to present compelling evidence as it's just not there when you look at the overall demographics of the election. And you can't just claim that because there is electronic vote counting that it's flawed because the demographics in Michigan with paper ballots matched other states.



 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
10. yet Democrats have failed time and time again to make voter suppression and voter machines a major
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:57 AM
Dec 2016

issue. As a party we keep rolling over, and we can be damned sure the media isn't going to do the job of informing the people for us. Its not for me whether or not somebody else would have won, its whether and which Democrats are willing to stand in solidarity on these things and fight back against them, or whether they are content to continue to be #2 in Washington if it means not rocking the boat or upsetting the natural order.

uponit7771

(91,754 posts)
11. Unnnn, I think in every state they've fought... if you're talking about a campaign issue then
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 12:12 PM
Dec 2016

... you're 100% right.

They can make it an issue with showing mostly the white middle class being affected if their concerned about "identity" issues.

That's the reason why I think Deans proposal is correct; the DNC head should be full time... period

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
12. yes, that's what I mean. Fighting at the state level is by itself, likely to be a losing battle.
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 12:24 PM
Dec 2016

It's one fought in the Republican appointed courts against republican legislation, when the battle should be waged by getting the people outraged and engaged in their democracy.

Our party's problem(generous read here) is that we keep thinking that we are going to win in-spite of the scale-tipping. We don't want to sound like whiners pre-election and damage our chances. Clinton even went so far as to legitimize our system by trying to paint Trump with a sore-loser vibe if he disavowed it in the face of a loss, because she was so certain that she had this in the bag. Now come post election, we can't challenge our rigged elections without ourselves, looking like sore-losers.

Its a mantle we need to take up and not let up on, whether we are winning or losing in the poles, and we need to do it uniformly as a party...not just as isolated voices expressing concern here and there.

uponit7771

(91,754 posts)
13. +1, I think some of the consensus now is to do some scale tipping ourselves in the most moral
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 12:27 PM
Dec 2016

... way possible.

My thought is to go out and start vote suppression rural areas and make a big fuss about it... then press the federal legislator to make laws against it on a national level or make them enforce the ones we have that are going agasinst the poor and PoC

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
14. I think that sounds pretty sensible. Places where it has a provable outcome are probably a smart
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 12:42 PM
Dec 2016

place to start, with the force and money of the DNC behind the exposure.
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