1. "We want to emphasize that Occupy LA is not, and never has been, affiliated with any established political party, candidate or organization as this would directly contravene our spirit of independence. We strive to challenge the rigid, oppressive structures sustaining the inherent inequalities created by our current socioeconomic political reality. We seek to empower communities to share their collective resources and subvert laws and institutions which place profit above people."

http://losangelesga.net/2012/01/statement-of-autonomy/

shrug shrug shrug

Seems like we can't let spinoff groups not affiliated with a general assembly appropriate all the best slogans, can we? 99% Spring... 99% Declaration...? Perhaps Occupy's should organize trainings of their own under the same name, offer to let the groups in question support said trainings, and if not, gain back the thunder by doing the same sort of trainings. No harm, no foul right?

But really, are these trainings not a good thing as long as they are teaching people the values of Occupy General Assembly tactics and not subverting the concept?

I first learned all this stuff at a training that was hosted by a former high school classmate of mine turned activist... at a globalization march... that's what got me involved. (I was always quasi-radical anti-authoritarian in my personal beliefs, but I always assumed nobody agreed with me which is why I consider myself a radical moderate. Because as long as an idea is considered radical that means not enough folks are embracing it.)

I know I myself would like to attend such a training, even if it's not affiliated with Occupy. I've seen GA-approved committees full of organization-leftists that were only marginally committed to Occupy. We won't win if Occupy becomes seen as the domain of the insular traditional left, instead of a widespread radical populist movement.

It's not Occupy. It's sponsered by a bunch of activist groups and labor unions that claim to be inspired by Occupy. For me to see CWA, Greenpeace, CodePink, anti-sweatshop, etc all united behind this, I think it has potential to be awesome. And it never would have happened without Occupy. I think this is a huge success for Occupy.

But this is not the original Occupy, and it's probably not going to be horizontal and all that good stuff. It is important to be aware of the difference. I'm happy to support both, but there is a difference.

I was just reading this article about it.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167253/occupy-wall-street-activists-respond-99-percent-spring

"My generation
don't believe the hype.
We've seen too many false prophets
crowned in forty-point type."

-Count Zero, "Generation"


99% Spring - An Occupy-Like Movement For People Who Want To Be Told What To Do?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/04/1080346/-99-Spring-An-Occupy-Like-Movement-For-People-Who-Want-To-Be-Told-What-To-Do-

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Why not simply join Occupy? Hmmmm.....that's an extremely good question. Instead of putting time and energy into "99% spring", "Hard Block", "All in for the 99%" and other utter nonsense, join Occupy. Take back your personal power, take back the world. Join in true democracy.

Meanwhile, read these:


Foreclosures Continue to Bring Home Prices Down
FNC Releases Q4 2011 Update of Market Distress and Foreclosure Discount

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/foreclosures-continue-to-bring-home-prices-down-2012-04-03


Insight:The Wall Street gold rush in foreclosed homes

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/21/us-usa-foreclosures-investors-idUSBRE82J12M20120321


Watchdog says banks impeded foreclosure inquiry

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/13/us-housing-foreclosures-idUSBRE82C10L20120313

Because of perceived anti-authoritarian elements and other rabble-rousers (like us?)

Just a feeling and I hope I'm wrong.

If Occupy allows the movement to be co-opted, then we will become no better than the Tea Party…just another Astroturf movement. No thanks.

Occupy holds BOTH parties accountable and we need to keep it that way.

of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters.

Perhaps I am dense..please explain.

threatening to call a general strike on Roosevelt (or was it Truman?) in the 1940s, which would have had serious repercussions for the Democrats, unless the New Deal followed through on their promise of Civil Rights. Since this was a credible negotiating tactic (do something that would actually have a negative impact on the politician's competing electoral agenda), it worked.

Similarly, MLK threatened LBJ with the prospect of backing off and letting him deal with the Black Power movement, and went up against LBJ on the issue of Vietnam and implementation of Great Society programs.

We don't hear many people vilifying the Civil Rights leaders for their willingness to fight the system regardless of who's in charge.

are, and very important. It's almost Spring.

I very much appreciate your defensiveness (meant in a good way) re the co-option of Occupy. I agree with you. However, if I may w/o causing trouble, submit my opinion (hoping lightening wont strike).

First of all "Bless Occupy" and "Viva la-Occupy".

But as I see it Occupy isnt The Movement. Occupy is part of The Movement. Occupy certainly has everyone's attention, both the 1% and the 99%. Occupy shouldnt changed or co-opted. However, there are many of us out here that arent Occupy'ers and I dont think you want us to be. We want to participate in The Movement. In fact some of us have been participating in one way or another for a long time.

I love the concepts of Occupy but call me old fashion, I think sooner or later we are going to need a political system that represents the 99%. We will need to elect representatives and pass legislation. I agree we cant rely on the current parties to bring this about w/o significant pressure.

What I see in the 99% Spring is a good thing. Granted it isnt too organized but I wouldnt think Occupy would hold that against them. They recognize the tremendous value of non-violent protests. I think they are inspired by Occupy and ready to support The Movement in their own way. I also believe that many that get the training will join Occupy.

MoveOn.org claims to have 5 million members. I have been to a number of their local events and most are over 50. They most likely wont be Occupying but want to participate.

Sorry for rambling and I hope this makes some kind of sense.

millions upon millions of people who just want to live their lives as is their utter right, have seen the cops come and beat the shit out of us, have seen hundreds jailed at a time, have seen the blood and pepper-spray and have seen the tear gas and phalanxes of riot cops. And have chosen what they believe is an easier, softer way to a better world. Which is doing exactly what the 1%, who sent the riot police in the first place, wanted.

I have been face-to-face with varying levels of police attack and violence upon us peaceful protesters in the several months I've been showing up for Occupy. I've recently been assaulted by cops utterly out-of-control, who broke the law they claim to protect, who had zero justification in the first place (WE have no weapons). And I will not be silent. I will not stop from showing up. I've even come back here where people DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT, to talk about it.

This is how Change occurs. Remember "Change"? It's entirely up to us. We are the answer, we are the government, we are the police, we are our own governing body. Take part in the Occupy GA and you'll see that self-governance and true equally-voiced democracy are often messy but they WORK and that no "leader" or "leaders" or "representatives" can ever provide the sense of inclusion, of unity, of being useful in real change.

I encourage the 5 million members of "moveon" to find ways, even peaceful ways with no personal risk, to support Occupy and to use their voice, for themselves. Ask each other how to support those working for Change. It would be appreciated (much less, is required without question).

Occupy is trying to make real change in the world. If MoveOn is inspired by Occupy, maybe they can support M1GS (May 1st General Strike).

We don't need to be pacified, we need justice, we need peace, we need our dignity. Please participate in/with Occupy, come to a GA or join in an action. You will see why this is important.

Fire, it was good to see you last week. Hope to see you on May 1st...in the streets!!!

Stay safe my friend.

Solidarity

...This is how Change occurs"...

Thanks for the links.

San Francisco Recorder Claims 99% of LOANs contain irregularities and 84% contain VIOLATIONS OF THE LAW
Feb. 16, 2012

http://infotofightforeclosure.com/?p=691

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Petition the Governor of OR: Immediate Statewide Moratorium On Mortgage Foreclosures

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-governor-of-or-immediate-statewide-moratorium-on-mortgage-foreclosures

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San Francisco Board of Supervisors Unanimously Passes Foreclosure Moratorium Resolution

http://notohousingcrime.org/2012/04/11/san-francisco-board-of-supervisors-unanimously-passes-foreclosure-moratorium-resolution/

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http://www.occupyfightsforeclosures.org/

Counter-Insurgency as Insurgency

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/04/05/counter-insurgency-as-insurgency/

but, other views here...are interesting to read, also.

It's hard for all of us to figure out a way to get a HUGE MOVEMENT that will NOT BE CO-OPTED by "TPTB.'

Compromise..we've learned is filled with problems.

It's a hard issue to resolve. But, good to hear all the viewpoints!

Always interesting reads.

Until they feel the democratic juices of true democracy flowing at a general assembly people are just deluding themselves.

appropriate OWS's language. That really bothers me as it is an intentional effort to fool people into thinking they are joining OWS when this seems to be a much more political organization.

They should right now announce they are NOT OWS. And why did they not just join the movement, which certainly would welcome them?

The fact they are not joining the movement means they want to control what goes on. We've had enough of these partisan, organizations, including Move-on, who sold out for access in the end which is why I dropped them several years ago.

It would be nice if they came up with their own language and not try to confuse or trick and therefore take away, people from the actual movement.

If they do that, if they make it clear they are not OWS and change the language to reflect who they are, I would be happy to support them, even join them. But I hate these deceptions, and that is how I see it. And the fact that people are so confused, means it was deceptive.

At least a few of the MSM commentators quit with the deficit fearmongering and even mentioned that income inequality just might be a problem. When Repukes (of all people!) start going after Rmoney for being a vulture capitalist, you know something has shifted.

Are you seriously advocating that this meme stop spreading into the mainstream? Why?

--will use it. I don't see that as a bad thing--quite the contrary.

event and from reports of people who attended, they thought so also. It then gave the impression that the fears people have had about the movement being co-opted were justified.

It's easy to say up front who you are to avoid that kind of confusion. It's not the first such incident where someone attempted to use the popularity of the movement to attract people. When there appears to be an underhanded motive, it's bad for everyone.

There's nothing wrong at all with the terminology being used, as it is. But eg, I never thought that politicians who were using were trying to co-opt it, just acknowedging the message, same thing with the media. This was different and got a lot of people upset.

Combined with Move-on's false statement today about the movement, it is not helpful at all for them to be seen as attacking while using they movement's successes. They are welcome to join, but not take over.

and is trying to prod them into some sort of direct action that will lead to further significant change.

Some of them, Greenpeace and Code Pink for example, have serious street cred. Others are groups that have been sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya, for months or years. Most unions have some serious work to do in order to re-establish cred as movers and shakers for the 99%. People have been paying their dues to unions and unions have been sitting on the sideline while Occupy does much of their job for them.

Occupy has essentially created the conglomerate known as 99% Spring, and we are influencing them to begin to center on the main problem, the 1%. Hopefully, we will spur them on further, into constructive and fruitful direct action.

As of now, I am waiting to see if 99% Spring will just be a forum for people to attend school, and learn a few more verses of Kumbaya, or if they are going to actually put it on the line, like Occupy has, with coordinated direct action that will create the tension necessary to bring about serious change.

"There are lessons in this world that can't be taught. They must be lived to be understood."
(Stick, paraphrasing Ralph Waldo Emerson)

MLK got it. This was written in the Birmingham jail:

"You may well ask: "Why direct action? Why sit-ins, marches and so forth? Isn't negotiation a better path?" You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue."

What do?

enough to start fully realizing that our core problem is the 1%. Now they are apparently taking action on this realization. I'm glad that some Occupiers are involved, they'll be a good influence there.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has"
Margaret Mead

Sorry for the shouting...But, this is what I believe...from what I've seen ...being around awhile.

Yeah...it sounds OLD...and we COMPROMISED...too much for decades after the Civil Rights Movement...but, given what we are up against...we should SEIZE the MOMENT...where MUCH of America is unhappy and in Malaise at this time having suffered so much (with many clueless until it Hit Them.)

We need a MASS MOVEMENT...because all of us are VERY UNHAPPY everwhere, IMHO. But, how to do this is evolving.

I love reading all the different viewpoints...because it gives me hope for something MORE INCLUSIVE coming out of our efforts.

It's a REMAKE of 60's...but with the benefit of much more INFORMATION, HISTORICAL INFO, and the INTERNET..(as long as it lasts).

I have to be optimistic. I've co-existed since 2001 with folks of Differing Opinions on DU and I still feel...after all these years...we have MORE IN COMMON than NOT...and we WILL UNITE and fulfill the DREAMS of the 60's and make those DREAMS more PERMANENT.

But then...I'm very IDEALISTIC...Always have been ...but there are huge times of depression where it seems nothing moves. I think we are in an UPSWING of PEOPLE POWER NOW!

We NEED TO GO WITH THIS!

And obey (just kidding )

Our group was about half men, half women, maybe a little more than half over 50.

Some of the older participants had a long history of political activism and marched, demonstrated and protested before the average member Occupier was born.

Some, like me, worked with political parties, in my case the Democratic Party, or organized in their churches, but were never really active in a movement like Occupy.

The Occupiers who were really active last Fall must understand that a lot of older people went through the economic downturn long before 2008. People in their 50s and 60s lost jobs (sometimes several times) due to downsizing, outsourcing, free trade and discrimination.

The 2008 recession was just a slightly bigger blow than the previous bouts with unemployment and having to go back to school or starting over for many older people.

A lot of older people have lost their homes or are about to be foreclosed. And usually the problem is health care costs.

We are not, for the most part, up to living in tents, sleeping on the ground or sitting outside on a cement ledge in the cold weather for a long GA meeting. Occupying a place for quite some time might be too challenging for some of us in our, 60s or 70s or even, as I think some were, in our 80s.

But we too are the 99%. We want to be part of the movement; we share the same goals as the Occupiers. We want to get the corporations out of government and end the Citizens United decision. We want to return industry and good jobs to the US. We want good, fairly priced, affordable healthcare. The 99% training is not just about older people, but it is really great for integrating us as well as young people who weren't in the Occupy groups into the movement.

At least one active Occupier participated in our training. He told us about a couple of events in our area that we can join in. I discovered that I already have established friendships with some who are very active in the Occupy movement. In addition I visited Occupy LA at LA City Hall last winter.

But the tent-thing? Sleeping on the ground for a number of nights? That's not realistic for me. When I talk about camping out under more comfortable circumstances than the Occupiers did, my children laugh at me. They just can't picture it.

And getting arrested? I doubt the police would really know quite what to do arresting a group of rather delicate women well over 60. It might be an interesting news item, but . . . . . complicated.

So I think that the 99% training could expand the Occupy Movement and bring in some diversity and support.

As for political hijacking? There was at least one strong Obama supporter in our group. Probably most of the group will vote for Obama. But we probably would not have been there if we were just 100% enamored of Obama's policies. Many of us expressed the opinion that the 99%/Occupy movement is a way to move Obama to a better agenda.

If all goes well, I will join in an Occupy event this week.

So I don't think that the 99% training is a threat to Occupiers. It think it will broaden the support base for the Occupy movement. And that is a good thing.

I liked it. The majority there were union members who heard about it from their unions where they work. I knew a few people there from work and also some who I worked with at my old work about 10 years ago. So it was cool to run in to some old friends and meet some new people. There were about 100 people there. Very diverse with some college students, lots of union workers, some retired-age people and Lots of people of color, and random people. Lots of people who want to help make a change and are ready to take direct action in an organized way to help make change. I think it is a good ally for Occupy although it is a different thing, there is some overlap.

"If all goes well, I will join in an Occupy event this week."

Last edited Mon Apr 16, 2012, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

in our own ways...however we can always being mindful of co-option. But, the broader the movement the harder it will be for those who want to undermine it to have great success. POWER OF THE PEOPLE!

And, I agree with this you say:

As for political hijacking? There was at least one strong Obama supporter in our group. Probably most of the group will vote for Obama. But we probably would not have been there if we were just 100% enamored of Obama's policies. Many of us expressed the opinion that the 99%/Occupy movement is a way to move Obama to a better agenda.

I went to an Occupy Movement rally in my State Capitol and there was one woman who was handing out Obama literature. She was treated friendly...but, mostly ignored. But, she did have a right to be there. Now if she was trying to sell "Obama 2012" Campaign buttons...I think she might have had a few people start a heated discussion with her, though.

All the comments by people here so far have been interesting reads. Putting heads together ...Good. And agree that 99% movement is a way to move Obama to a better agenda. He did ask for our help on the campaign trail.

But this MOVEMENT is TOO BIG...and WE WILL ...MAKE DIFFERENCE! In important ways...and keeping it LOOSE...might be a better way from 60's where everyone (Media Spin on Discovery/History Channel on TV) managed to DISS this ALL as a Bunch of Freako Druggies who defied Repugs/Reagan/Friedmanomics that "supposedly brought Freedom to America and wall Street and Bill Clinton believed in it ALSO...(that I didn't find out until much later after I cast my vote for him)..

BUT, WHATEVER...WE MOVE ON to a FUTURE...that is MORE ENLIGHTENED...than What Went BEFORE!

That's all I can hope for...going forward and that would be GOOD!
ENE

The LA area is particularly liberal. Republicans are generally in the minority in my area.

Also if you think that groups like MoveOn want Occupy to be there protesting Obama you are waaaaay off.

They don't want to draw more people into the Occupy movement. They want to replace it with an astroturf movement...no thanks.

but that is one of the things that Occupy has done. Lots of people want to join in some of the Occupy activities but can't participate in all. The 99% training can bring people in that category up to speed and give them confidence about joining in.

At least in the training I attended, the group was planning to join activities that Occupy is planning. And at the meeting I learned that I already know and have worked with some of the people in the existing Occupy organization.

I know that Move-On often supports the Obama administration. I disagree with Obama on a number of policies, but considering my choices, I will be campaigning for Obama and voting for him. It isn't entirely a matter of the lesser of two evils although my decision could be viewed that way. But really, it is more a matter of being realistic. Obama for all of his faults and mistakes is far better than the Republican alternative. There are good things about Obama.

You can't support Occupy by joining an entirely different movement.

There was a representative from the Occupy movement in our area present at the meeting. He told us about an event they were holding. I think the point was to prepare people to participate generally in Occupy and other events.

while the 99% Spring is a front to re-elect Obama.

Ask your "99% Spring" =leaders=, which Occupy has none for good reason, what they are doing on May 1. Occupy are working on a "Day without the 99%" General Strike. If this is not principle in "99% Spring" planning and action, they have nothing to do with Occupy.

Please seek out your local Occupation...and shame on the "99% Spring" for not being transparent and making it quite clear that they have zip zero zilch nada to do with Occupy, while simultaneously creating the appearance of Occupy.

You cannot simultaneously support the corrupt system and change it.

It is right there in the Occupy declarations. Period. Absolute. No affiliation or support of politicians and political parties.

If politics and politicians could solve these problems, they would have by now. They are fully invested IN the problems, and must be countered by the people united. Looking for answers within the corrupt system is futile. Looking to anyone but the people of this country for our future, is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Anything calling itself "99%" while simultaneously investing energy into corruption, IS the problem.

THIS is how Occupy is turned into someone's private "tea party". All that energy, going into a corrupt system which is destroying the 99%...

THIS is what Occupy is doing:

http://occupywallst.org/article/may-day/

If so, how do you plan to get lots of people to support Occupy?

I'll suppose that lots of people support Occupy.

Anyone hit with illegal foreclosure, with income inequality, with student loan debt, with a jobless future, with bought and sold politicians, with wall street and banks eating up our bailout monies while stealing our futures, with the rich planning upon forcing "austerity" upon us as a power grab or worse, to allow the financial system to crash, again as a power grab...I imagine we all have something in common, and desire to change it.

Pardon the pun.

How do you want people to support you?

And how do you plan to translate Occupy into change?

I'm not criticizing anything you are doing.

I'm just wondering whether the Occupy movement is supposed to grow wider and become more inclusive or not, and if it is to become wider and more inclusive, how?

I did not think of the 99% movement as a separate movement but as a support to the Occupy movement, but maybe I don't really understand what the Occupy movement is.

I thought the Occupy movement was in its nature very inclusive. Now I am reading that it excludes those it considers to be in the 99% or supporting established politicians. I am confused a bit.

Let me suggest something. Perhaps you could attend a GA (general assembly) in a major city in your area. Air these concerns about "inclusion" to the people at the GA. You will be heard...trust me. The report back would be fun.

that Occupy was very welcoming and very inclusive.

Maybe you stepped onto an encampment twice. It seems you were there as a spectator.

I'll repeat my advice. Step onto a major GA and air your concerns to Occupy. It takes actual courage to step up & be heard. It's all very easy behind a keyboard.

If you are traveling to the GA by public transportation, that fact can be difficult for older people.

Also, the GAs are very long and involve sitting on maybe hard concrete or the grass -- also difficult for older people.

So you see the Occupy marches are great for older people. Some joining in activities is good for older people who may be arthritic or have other physical problems. But the Occupy structure, although really practical for younger people and some older people, is not appropriate for many who are older and have to be careful where and how they sit or stand.

The 99% movement simply educated people who may not know on how we got into the economic straits we are in and what nonviolence means. That was it.

They somehow find a way to get down an participate. Hell, I'm no spring chicken myself and I get down to a GA at least once a week.

I'll repeat my offer. Attend a major GA in your area. Air your concerns to the people of Occupy. They will listen.

I see some resistance to my offer. Is it perhaps because your cries for inclusion are not really honest? Like I said, it's all too easy from behind a keyboard.

They have handicapped access and bathrooms at my GA. So that means all the GAs have it.

You really must attend to see what REAL democracy looks like. Why would anybody want to deprive themselves of the experience of seeing REAL democracy in action for once in their life.

Everybody should attend one and see. You won't believe how exciting it really is.

But I get to GAs. Peace!

There really is no excuse for people missing the GA just because they are old and disabled and have no bus fare. I would suggest everyone follow the lead of this Occupier and attend the general assemblies at their local occupy. That is the only way to experience true democracy and change the world.

But yes, I agree! And...we have cookies.

Supporting anything but Occupy is a waste of time. Supporting to parties and organizations of The Establishment is really supporting corruption. That's true whether anybody likes it or not. I couldn't agree more.

but the 99% Spring is destructive to Occupy. Why not simply join Occupy and see how you can contribute? The movement is comprised of all ages and types, and the perspective our elders have presented has been vital.

Thanks to U4ikLefty!

Occupy Wall Street and MoveOn Go Together Like Woodstock and 1999

DU needs a "99% Spring" sub-forum. It is NOT Occupy. It IS the problem. Occupy will not become someone's "tea party".

are doing something, but whenever any political party gets involved they start controlling, holding people back, and that's exactly why OWS came about. Moveon and many of the other so-called 'left' organizations sold out for access and money and were a huge disappointment. By 2004 a lot of people had had it with Moveon, after they had promised to do everything possible to help with Election Fraud. I remember trying to contact them along with a lot of other people, but they went totally silent. Clearly they were told not get involved in election fraud.

They had a poll up I remember, asking members what was most important to them that needed their attention. The response was 'Election Fraud' by nearly ninety percent of the responders, but they never even bothered to answer.

Anyone who remembers the devastation of that election knows the passion people were willing to put into stopping Diebold et al. But that was when these 'left' organizations abandoned ship and many people got the message, and stopped accepting their emails.

We definitely do not want that to happen to the Occupy movement.

Because one is Occupy and one is NOT OCCUPY!!! They should have a separate forum to keep them separated.

I had only about $1.50 in change...doh!!!

You need to know it is nothing but a front group for the the institutional left. They only way we will ever get real change is to continue occupying public spaces until we grow big enough that they can't stop us.

If we're not occupying anything or having more neighborhood GAs.

They were supposed to have a convergence in my city in the month of April and that has not happened, near as I can tell.

We tried to organize a neighborhood GA for our area, in a city with an active occupy, and instead everyone left for warmer cities when the Park Police started cracking down on camping, and we can't find anyone that wants to participate. The only people trying to start a neighborhood GA in my local community are institutional leftists who complained that too many people came to their first organizing meeting (!) and insisted that their GA would only be for residents of a specific suburban county because they wanted to focus on "issues affecting the middle class" and reach out to those people "not just inner city activists".

Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:04 AM - Edit history (1)

Which Park police?

just curious

a major convergence there this past month.


I'm not actually from there
or anything like that.