I read on DU that they were drawing porn on cave walls

and that it has been around since the dawn of time.

I know its true. I read it on DU.

That's my favorite. With pictures and everything

mansplained to me. There is no point. Just accept the wisdom.

It's art.

I am still reading = Ten Things That Make Men Turn Away From Women.

I can raise you ten

....is corporate sex.

With the influx of all the on-line and foreign hard core sex on line the main line porn industry is losing mega bucks. "Porn stars" are now having to supplement their incomes as "escorts" because the corporate porn industry has cut back what they pay them.

More accurately I mean sex for profit. These should be human transactions, not just business.

It's like profit based health care. There's just something really off about it.

It really bothers me that "porn" is so often misdefined to such a narrow sliver of sexuality. Maybe instead of lamenting one "source" of information, it would be better to actually TALK to your kids about sexuality and demonstrate that gender roles are not some fixed concept through your own positive personal behavior?

"Men who watch a lot of porn have trouble enjoying real sex with real women?" What does this even mean? And why are the feelings of these hypothetical women not even considered as part of this statement?

"No, son, I just want you to blindly go forth and have a predefined heterosexual encounter with no understanding of anything, including birth control and the feelings of your partner. Have fun!"

Retch. And particularly bad coming from a woman who is reinforcing these same stereotypical gender roles.

You are correct, parents don't have to have such conversations. They can choose to perpetuate the trope that anything non-mainstream isn't to be talked about, and if (god forbid) maybe their kid is hiding their true feelings that it isn't their own behavior that is causing it. It's hard to believe that people keep their true sexuality a secret when we're all so open and honest about it.

And I completely agree -- any child that is unwilling to "decide and communicate" in such an environment is clearly at fault. Just like women who don't leave abusive husbands are, as well as those women who were clearly asking for it with their choice of clothing.

Anyone who abdicates their role in fostering healthy, loved, respected children and then turns around and blames society for its corrupting influence deserves my scorn.

The article makes a number of heteronormative assumptions. I keep close eye on porn however, very little of it is a good "explanation of a sexual encounter, up to and including anatomy, and informed consent; whether hetero or Gay. there's the refusal to practice safe sex. I would consider the article a starting point.

What broader spectrum of porn deserves merit? Have you read the research that links viewing of pornography to sexual dysfunction (even with the active disagreements about the direction of causality)? Are you aware of the link between porn production and the kidnapping of women and children?

I did not get that the person who posted this intended to tell her (or his) son to "blindly go forth and have a predefined heterosexual encounter with no understanding of anything, including birth control and the feelings of your partner." I get that--like many anti-porn advocates--she (or he) wants our children to have sexual experiences free from sexism, misogyny and unrealistic gender expectations.

And I read erotica, and I have an active imagination. Whee! I can enjoy porn that only exists inside my own mind! And sometimes, I even imagine adults having intelligent discourse without sex! Someone get me a fainting couch.

As for your "broader spectrum of porn", this sort of dismissive statement ignores that many women *like* porn, that gay and lesbian and bisexual porn exists, that solo porn exists, that porn created by women for women exists, and that porn for pretty much every fetish imaginable exists. None of these is acknowledged in the article, only vanilla stereotyped porn. The world is a much richer place than you imply.

Porn, by and large, is not responsible for the subjugation of women and children. Crime, poverty, and lack of education and opportunity are far worse. A society that tolerates domestic violence and perpetuates the image that women are helpless creatures dependent on dominating men is far worse. Porn is a great evil boogeyman, though, because we can point to instances of bad actors (both kinds), while acting morally superior. But it is a scapegoat. If we lived in a society that was more open and honest about sexuality and gender roles, I suspect that the overall quality of available porn would improve dramatically. It is when we force sexuality into unspoken taboo that other people get to dictate what the majority of lousy porn is. People drank a lot more wood alcohol during prohibition, too, but I wouldn't blame people's desire to get drunk for that.

But hey, I get it. Anyone expressing a pro-porn (or more honestly, anti-censorship) opinion can just go screw themselves, rather than attempt to further a real discussion. You've certainly made me rethink my clearly superficial opinion about the merits of plumber-on-housewife porn (the only kind there is) in an adult society. I'll just go now and enjoy some classic Bugs Bunny cartoons that do nothing but advocate senseless violence, and maybe play some video games that couldn't possibly have been written to include strong female characters or foster cooperation.

Touched a nerve, did I? Certainly got your "active imagination" going...

You go right ahead and enjoy your porn, egg, but be aware that many women would like for erotica to be less sexist and misogynistic, and many of the types of porn you listed are sexist and misogynistic.

Given your rather verbose response, I am certain you either didn't read the article and/or you didn't watch the video. Those of us who want to help our younglings develop healthy sexual appetites are not so much 'anti-porn' as we are anti-sexism and anti-misogyny. I would encourage you to watch the documentary "The Bro Code" for further enlightenment.

As far as "porn, by and large," not being "responsible for the subjugation of women and children," I caution you to consider that the harder you work to deny something the more likely is that something close to the truth. But, carry on--you do have that straw man concept down pat.

Not a thing I said in my original response to you merits your adjuration: "Anyone expressing a pro-porn (or more honestly, anti-censorship) opinion can just go screw themselves, rather than attempt to further a real discussion." That's on you.

And, Bugs Bunny is my favorite leading man, and totally irrelevant to this discussion.

It didn't arise from a vacuum, as they say.

At least this individual admits to watching porn. Most advocates who slam feminists won't admit to watching and/or enjoying porn, preferring to aver that they "support free speech," and they're "against censorship," and all the typical arguments of those who are in favor of porn.

I doubt you watched the TED talk video clip at the end of the article, or you might have held your tongue, so to speak.

Or is it a new thing?
Talk to your kids, don't feed them bigotry and tropes.

You hurt my feelings-- so bad

I'm no longer surprised when the sexists and misogynists come out of the woodwork to denigrate...

the video clip. I hope more of our younglings will get to see that website.

Despite the potential for circular discussions, derailment as well as valid criticisms, the article does have good info perhaps especially the video clip

You might be sad because someone you trusted broke that trust, but they didn't hurt your feelings - you chose to feel that way.

Eleanor Roosevelt quote on criticism.
“Do what you feel in your heart to be right – for you’ll be criticized anyway. You’ll be damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.”

You can even be in jail, and all your friends and people who say they are your sisters and brothers say you are wrong...but if you are at peace with what you did, nothing they say can bring you any discomfort...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/04/martin-luther-kings-letter-from-birmingham-jail/274668/

People choose their feelings about what others say and do. So if one wants to be all "hurt", we all know this is because they chose to be so.

This is a good thing, because you can make a decision to change it in less than a second.

Turn on some good music, and turn it up.

Some time back I was reading something about this and came across a discussion wherein someone was letting go of criticism they didn't think was appropriate, someone not taking care in their response.

Their answer? "I've upped my standards. Up yours".

Feel free to borrow it.

But thank you very much

I'm a little slow this morning

"Men who watch a lot of porn have trouble enjoying real sex with real women."

I don't buy the notion that there is research showing causality from the first to the second...
How do we know that is is not men who don't enjoy sex with real women who like to watch a lot of porn? And so what, if these men like to watch porn? It's not like sex is what defines people and that people who don't enjoy sex with real people are incomplete or defective. There are asexual people, for example...

I had that thought, how do we know it isn't the other way around, that perhaps men who have problem enjoying "real sex" with women are the ones who watch a lot of port.

There are a number of studies showing coralation, but except in blatant cases, I think causation would be hard to prove. However, porn is extremely racist, amount its other faults, I wonder if studies have been done on that?

me comfortable with it. I really don't care what consenting adults do. And that is the problem with porn too often, it is not just consenting adults.

Lots of assumptions and opinion, questionable facts, and I'm not sure it if it isn't disrespectful to a whole lot of people.

"Porn is made by men for men." That is just flat out incorrect now - was correct perhaps 50 years ago.

"Men who watch a lot of porn have trouble enjoying real sex with real women" <- Any research on this? Or maybe it was guys who were fucked up to begin with?

Did the author write the same thing to her daughter about female porn? Or is this the only object of her prejudice?

I think she generalizes too much. Pictures of people fucking (which she may see as all porn, I don't) is how many kids learn today, because the adults are such sorry teachers.

You can't make whole kids with broken adults.

Thanks for posting it though. It's a reminder that things which don't threaten you scare the pants off others. Or they are afraid it will.

You have seen the state of porn lately of course? Hetero, Gay, Kink? I have.

And of course you read through the whole thing. It is certainly heteronormative, and by no means a perfect piece, but makes some salient points worth considering.

people being beaten and or murdered by police as porn, it makes me wonder about their values. Those extensions of the psychic penis the police carry and shoot mean something, yes?

I do think it's worth telling kids that there are things in the world that are phony or vile or hurtful, or sometimes all of those, and can lead you to ruin, but I think she should add in jobs at Walmart, selling things on the phone, and/or becoming a banker if she really wanted to protect him.

I know, the subject was porn, which makes everyone think of sex, but I wish she would broaden the definition and not pretend there is some one entity that is "porn" and that all those things she said about "it" are accepted fact. There isn't, and they aren't.

She may also be teaching her kids unintended ways to learn about stuff as well, that they can be defined in a little narrow way and dismissed, along with all the people who participate.

It just reminded me of "Baptist School". < where in anything that wasn't white, hetero, and missionary style was dirty. Anyone else might as well have been animals, it was porn in their eyes. (unless it was what they were doing behind closed doors, with whomever, and however, of course. good god. real good god).

I kinda took another path. So when I hear stuff like this I know they mean well, but that's not enough.

Like I said if it was me, I'd use it as a beginning point of discussion. The first time I heard of my older kids watching porn, they were underage, high on pot and this was a VCR-- so they'd speed it up or run it backwards, just cracking up.



I forget who told on them.

Back in the day there was the playboy channel...my 15 year old son would wake up early to sneak a watch..

I tried to explain to him, he would meet a girl whom he liked (loved) and based on his watching the playboy channel, would have expectations of his girlfriend that would never happen..that what he watched was not real life.

The porn was printed although stag films and "art houses" were out there, print was cheaper. It still gave incredibly distorted images of both sex and women and it was up to girls who held the least power in any relationship to tell the guy that real life wasn't like that, that some of the stuff he fantasized about should stay in his fantasies because it was uncomfortable and/or downright dangerous, and that no, we weren't going to do THAT, either. Also, we weren't nearly as stupid or passive as the predatory sort of porn fiction made us out to be.

Guys still whined a lot about not getting a SO to act out porn fantasies, causing the SO to leave in search of a grownup.

True that

— I mean autonomously chosen activity, freely engaged in for the sake of real pleasure, intense, and unmistakably the real thing. The more we have experiences like this, the less we will be taken in by the confusions and lies and messes all around us.

http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/onlinessays/JC32folder/JoannaRussDoubSex.html

Loved it