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HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:12 PM Mar 2013

Enhanced mental health reporting...you may not want a gun, how about your driver's license?

{I've been pumping articles into this forum to get it off the ground. This post is to take things in a different way...trying to open up a discussion that's much more open to opinion.}



For several decades, many, most?, states have asserted their abilities disqualify drivers who suffer from medical or mental conditions. You may have noticed a question about that on your driver's license application/renewal.

In setting the requirements into statutes legislatures have frequently set up reporting requirements. Mostly the reporting requirements have gone unenforced. That could be changing.

In the wake of the Newton mass murder and national determination to reduce such attacks, sentiment has turned sharply to the need for enhancing use of the NICS database. In turn, many have pointed out gaping holes in the NICS database. Everyone wants those holes closed.

So your mental healthcare provider may soon come under enhanced pressure to report. And that pressure may not be just the reporting of mental states that disqualify you from owning a gun.

It's all understandable in a general sense...we all want to be safe. No one wants persons who have siezures or lapses into unconsciousness from epilepsy or uncontrolled diabetics passing out while driving. No one wants people with narcolepsy falling asleep at the wheel. No one wants inattentive, dare we say, attention deficit drivers not paying attention to traffic and road signs...

But the states want to know all the possible things your DR might think could be a problem...a quick googling turns up the IL DVM wanting your Dr to tell how angry you get. In PA the DMV wants the DR to tell if you've had thoughts of suicide. Both states Drs to snitch about whether you 'use' alcohol. They also want to know if you are compliant with your treatment and taking your meds.

Seems the state don't get too specific. They defer to the expertise and awareness of your therapist and psychologist.
What have you told a therapist lately? Getting angry, too often? Feeling depressed enough to have thoughts about hurting yourself? Losing a lot of sleep and having trouble concentrating on problems?


As states turn toward enhanced enforcement of reporting from physicians and psychiatrists to close gaps in the NICS system, How do you feel threatened about enhanced reporting about your mental health and treatments?

Feel less inclined to check that box on your driver's license renewal? Feel like maybe some things shouldn't be said, even to your therapist?




























13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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BainsBane

(54,754 posts)
1. When I lived in Florida
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:15 PM
Mar 2013

They asked on my drivers license form if I had ever taken anti-depressants or other psychiatric medications. I lied. What fucking business is it of theirs? That has no effect on my driving.

Right now, I would think Hippa would prevent providers from disclosing that information. Am I wrong about that?

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
4. I think a lot of people will feel that way.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:54 PM
Mar 2013

The question is what sort of punishment awaits a person who doesn't self report and their clinician(s) do?

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
5. Yes, I can imagine this puts serious burdens on a person.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:55 PM
Mar 2013

In many non-metro areas there just isn't public transportation to get from one town to the next for a job

Neoma

(10,039 posts)
7. This actually means college for me...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:05 PM
Mar 2013

I've been steady for a long while. If I all the sudden can't drive due to some stupid law, it'd be from ableism and not from lack of control.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
10. It seems to me that many people with borderline personality in PA wouldn't have a DL if
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:22 PM
Mar 2013

they were honest with their therapist and the DMV

And I'll bet that in PA many clinicians and many clients in therapy aren't being honest with the DMV

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
3. Have they also changed the law that requires that therapists have a patient's explicit
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:31 PM
Mar 2013

permission to share this kind of information? I would think not. The HIPAA requirements are pretty tight and the penalties pretty severe.

A therapist has a duty to protect. If they think that you are a danger, then they have an obligation to either take you out of circulation or warn the potential victims. But this crosses way over those lines.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
6. I'm not sure exactly what went down in NY's SAFE act but it did have language to protect clinicians
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:59 PM
Mar 2013

I think any clinician that reports information has an ethical obligation to inform in writing the patient or the patient's guardian that information has been shared.

I guess my point here is to ponder where the call for enhanced reporting could go. People need to look at what's getting proposed under the name of supporting gun control. It could impact them from directions they don't anticipate.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
8. Apparently the legislators in PA were worried about suicide by car accident...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:14 PM
Mar 2013

That made me think that some of these disqualifications may be put forward by insurance companies.

The most common forms of suicide are by gun, pills/poisons, and hanging. Again a quick google search suggested that suicide by car is down in the low single digits of methods of suicide.

There's really much room for non-judicial decision making a 'panel' of consultants hired by the DMV rules on reports/(functionally allegation of disqualification) that don't have clear boundaries and consequently depend to a large degree on opinings which could be very arbitrary.

And a clinician isn't always on good terms with a psych patient. Failed/unsuccessful treatment leads to hard feelings all around and a person could be in a position where they have to depend upon a favorable commentary from a clinician they left under hostile interactions. Seems likely to generate inequitable treatment under the law.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
9. I know that many single vehicle accidents are suicide attempts, but I agree
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:18 PM
Mar 2013

that it is not a common form of suicide. And when it does occur, it usually does not injure others.

At any rate, being suicidal is generally not a permanent condition, and a therapist would have a duty to protect if a patient were truly suicidal. So I don't see why any DMV would need to know.

All this entire thing does, imo, is make it less likely that people that need treatment will seek it out. And that solves absolutely nothing.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
11. Honestly, how do laws get made? STM, boiler plate providers meeting with 20-something staff
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:27 PM
Mar 2013

and interns do a lot of the sausage making.

So you have industry agendas grinding the edge of experience into persons with little experience about the world.

If other 'stakeholders' aren't watch-dogging they get rolled.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
12. i think it crosses a line
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:31 PM
Mar 2013

being on meds does not make me a menace on the road, either to myself or others. it's another case of broadbrushing. that's certainly not a box i'd check when renewing my driver's license.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
13. The questions vary by state, but the q's have been asked for many years, sometimes decades
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:51 PM
Mar 2013

I suspect that most people don't check that box and are unaware of the existence of these questions.

I can't say and I don't think anyone knows what the rate of false reporting is.

Commercial drivers take physicals and these questions are all part of that aspect of their maintaining their permits.





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