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discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 02:31 PM Mar 2013

When good battles evil:

Auf Deutsche: "Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."
In English: "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby becomes a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."

Is it noble or self destructive to oppose evil?

How do you know when to start?

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When good battles evil: (Original Post) discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 OP
I think we should recognize that evil comes from the observor, ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #1
Of necessity the observer is the arbiter discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #3
I did not mean to suggest thinking other people were evel was an evil act. ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #11
IMHO discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #13
if it is evil to destroy then is it noble to survive? Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2013 #2
"if it is evil to destroy" discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #4
depends on what is being destroyed - Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2013 #5
Agreed discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #6
Is the act of opposing evil an evil act in itself? Dash87 Mar 2013 #7
You used the word "fighting" as in "when fighting the enemy". What does fighting mean in thatcontext rhett o rick Mar 2013 #8
Good point. You could say he did fight his enemies and win. Dash87 Mar 2013 #9
So maybe we dare conclude that if you fight your enemies maintaining your principles rhett o rick Mar 2013 #10
Individually you have to define what evil is and what it means to you ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #12
I consider evil to be... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #15
That's a broad definition ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #20
In the realm of the... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #21
Everything wears out over time. rrneck Mar 2013 #14
It is entropy that causes the wearing out. discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #16
It might be argued rrneck Mar 2013 #17
Agreed discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #18
Some quotes on good vs. evil: discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #19

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
1. I think we should recognize that evil comes from the observor,
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 02:41 PM
Mar 2013

as opposed to the person or situation being observed. "Evil" is an emotional reaction to stimuli. When we realize this, our "opponents" retain their humanity within our minds, and we are less likely to betray our own values when dealing with them.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
3. Of necessity the observer is the arbiter
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 04:19 PM
Mar 2013

However, the application of criteria to one's observations is not an evil act.

Criteria and their application are individually subjective and only become objective due a consensus among others. Since a pre-agreed universal set of criteria would be cumbersome and difficult if not impossible, a structure of rights and principles must be developed by society.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
11. I did not mean to suggest thinking other people were evel was an evil act.
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 05:43 PM
Mar 2013

Just that evil is a subjective perception.

Criteria and their application are individually subjective and only become objective due a consensus among others.


Why would consensus among others make something objective?

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
7. Is the act of opposing evil an evil act in itself?
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 04:56 PM
Mar 2013

I guess that's the point. When you're fighting the enemy, will you eventually become that which you originally hated so dearly? Does fighting evil require betraying your own sensibilities of good?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
8. You used the word "fighting" as in "when fighting the enemy". What does fighting mean in thatcontext
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 05:15 PM
Mar 2013

Did Mahatma Gandhi fight his enemy, for example? Did he betray his principles?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
10. So maybe we dare conclude that if you fight your enemies maintaining your principles
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 05:21 PM
Mar 2013

then you wont become your enemy.

And you can stop telling me what your signature is. I got it.

jk

ismnotwasm

(42,454 posts)
12. Individually you have to define what evil is and what it means to you
Fri Mar 15, 2013, 07:00 PM
Mar 2013

And apply it in a social context. There are a number of acts that are so disturbed we use the word evil; say someone is a cannibal, not only a cannibal, bit Albert Fish like, your cannibal will only eat the flesh of stolen babies, in fact, infants. This cannibal knows right from wrong--he simply feels that stealing and eating babies does a greater good because the world is overpopulated, a great wrong in his/her mind and wasting flesh is also a great wrong.

We would call this person mentally ill, and if they continue their justification for their actions, evil. because this way of thinking is so foreign, and feels so wrong on every level we can think of. Stealing is usually 'wrong', but not necessarily evil, stealing babies comes much closer to evil, and eating them crosses all social boundaries.

This is an extreme example I used because is neither noble or self destructive to oppose this; it's closer to species survival. I would say that it's even necessary to fight this kind of evil.


discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
21. In the realm of the...
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 07:45 PM
Mar 2013

...checkbook accounting system of good and evil, that's my basis. I like the "first do no harm" part of the Hippocratic Oath.

When things get complicated, the first task is to make them simpler.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
14. Everything wears out over time.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:01 AM
Mar 2013

Existence is self destructive. We use value judgements like nobility or evil to justify or condemn our struggle against entropy.

The opposition of evil is both noble and self destructive. In fact, profit from opposition to evil is an evil in itself while complete destruction might be seen as the most noble act that can be imagined. It's the difference between a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save others and war profiteering.


discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
16. It is entropy that causes the wearing out.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 10:18 PM
Mar 2013

People working against entropy, disorder and chaos is what society is about.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
19. Some quotes on good vs. evil:
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:41 AM
Mar 2013

"A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, The one I feed the most." - George Bernard Shaw

"If you take a look at history, you will find that the understanding of what is good and evil has always existed before the individual religions. The religions were only invented by people afterwards, in order to express this idea." - Salman Rushdie

"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee

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