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hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:30 PM Oct 2014

Secularism grows as more U.S. Christians turn ‘churchless’

Cathy Lynn Grossman

(RNS) If you’re dismayed that one in five Americans (20 percent) are “nones” — people who claim no particular religious identity — brace yourself.

How does 38 percent sound?

That’s what religion researcher David Kinnaman calculates when he adds “the unchurched, the never-churched and the skeptics” to the nones.

He calls his new category “churchless,” the same title Kinnaman has given his new book. By his count, roughly four in 10 people living in the continental United States are actually “post-Christian” and “essentially secular in belief and practice.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2014/10/24/secularism-is-on-the-rise-as-more-u-s-christians-turn-churchless/

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Secularism grows as more U.S. Christians turn ‘churchless’ (Original Post) hrmjustin Oct 2014 OP
I do wish people would stop using the word "secular" kentauros Oct 2014 #1
It looks pretty accurate to me. AtheistCrusader Oct 2014 #2
I guess I should have highlighted within my quote, too. kentauros Oct 2014 #3
I kind of agree - it's used in my faith all the time inappropriately el_bryanto Oct 2014 #4
I don't know if this is prevalent in other countries or what, kentauros Oct 2014 #5
A lot of those churchless people aren't churchless, though--there's a new trend towards MADem Oct 2014 #6

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
1. I do wish people would stop using the word "secular"
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:01 PM
Oct 2014

for stories like this. Far too many people associate it with "atheist" and don't bother using it in any other way. And the first definition of the word supports that usage:

sec·u·lar/ˈsekyələr/adjective
1. denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.
2. (of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule; not belonging to or living in a monastic or other order.
3. of or denoting slow changes in the motion of the sun or planets.
4. (of a fluctuation or trend) occurring or persisting over an indefinitely long period.
5. occurring once every century or similarly long period (used especially in reference to celebratory games in ancient Rome).


“We are far from becoming an atheist nation,” he said. “There are tens of millions of active believers in America today. But the wall between the churched and the churchless is growing higher and more impenetrable as more people have no muscle memory of what it means to be a regular attender at a house of worship.”

How these people think, pray and use their time is shifting away from a faith-based perspective. As a result, a churchless or secular worldview “is becoming its own social force.”

Just use the word "churchless" then. It's not the same as secular. What this common use of "secular" is, though, is a sloppy definition, especially of intent.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
2. It looks pretty accurate to me.
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 11:57 AM
Oct 2014

That “essentially secular in belief and practice.” is a difficult grey area to categorize, when the people you're shuffling into it number into the tens of millions. Likely a large number of that group before adding skeptics, may believe of accept the possibility of a supernatural god, putting them in a agnostic/undecided sort of middle ground.

(I would quibble with the article's use of “There are tens of millions of active believers in America today", that's actually hundreds of millions, not tens, being about 200m people that are believers.)

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
3. I guess I should have highlighted within my quote, too.
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 03:28 PM
Oct 2014
As a result, a churchless or secular worldview

Now look at the emboldened part of the definition for 'secular':
1. denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.

"Churchless" is not "secular" by the definition of 'secular' and 'churchless'. Thus my contention that people stop misusing them as the same. They are not. Words have meanings, not just whatever people think they should have based on their own worldview.

And just so I'm absolutely clear, here's the dictionary.com definition of "churchless":

churchless
adjective
1. without a church.
2. not belonging to or attending any church.
3. without church approval or ceremony.

Now, where exactly, does that seem even remotely like 'secular'?

So again, people are using the words wrong, and thus, projecting the wrong message to millions either unable or unwilling to notice the big difference.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
4. I kind of agree - it's used in my faith all the time inappropriately
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 04:07 PM
Oct 2014

I know what they mean, but since I believe in a largely secular society it riles me.

Bryant

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
5. I don't know if this is prevalent in other countries or what,
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 10:20 PM
Oct 2014

but Americans seem intent on making up definitions to suit their points of view, even if their definition contradicts the actual one. I put up with the same problem all the time as a vegetarian.

"Do you eat fish?"
"Fish don't grow on trees or bushes, do they?"

Even then, they still think it's okay to call someone that eats fish or other animals a "vegetarian." It's a constant uphill battle with ignorance, and it seems that's going to be the case with this topic.

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