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Related: About this forumA New York accent in ancient Rome? So what, it's no less accurate than RP
( RP = (British) received pronunciation)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/18/a-new-york-accent-in-ancient-rome-so-what-its-no-less-accurate-than-rp
A New York accent in ancient Rome? So what, its no less accurate than RP
Rebecca Rideal
Denzel Washington has been accused of inauthenticity in Gladiator II. But why is upper-class, southern English considered the norm?
Thu 18 Jul 2024 05.00 EDT
"Whose head could I give you that would satisfy this fury? asks Denzel Washingtons crafty Macrinus in the long-awaited trailer [below]for Ridley Scotts Gladiator II. With its medley of aquatic gladiatorial games and charging battle rhinos, a vengeful Paul Mescal, a wearied Pedro Pascal, imperial Romes answer to Tweedledum (Joseph Quinn) and Tweedledee (Fred Hechinger), and Connie Nielsen providing an enticing link to the previous film, the trailer looks and sounds epic. So of course some viewers have come out in a fury.
A chief complaint appears to be Washingtons use of his natural New York accent, with one observer asking: How did Ridley Scott allow Academy Award-winning actor Denzel Washington to do a NY accent in a movie set in Ancient Rome? Conversely, there seems to be little furore over the English accent of Quinn or Mescals loose adoption of what appears to be (from the trailer at least) received pronunciation despite them being equally anachronistic. As it has been pointed out in the Hollywood Reporter, when combined with criticism of the music choice (Jay-Z and Kanye Wests No Church in the Wild), it starts to look rather dog whistle-y.
But lets focus on the question of accents in historical drama. A century of cinema bolstered by classism and the development of received pronunciation (RP) has conditioned us to expect Hollywood historical films and TV shows to sound a certain way. Its why we have ancient emperors, medieval knights and Tudor kings and queens all erroneously speaking with roughly the same accent.
Thats not to say there havent been exceptions, such as Charlton Hestons American accent in Ben-Hur and Katharine Hepburns mid-Atlantic Eleanor of Aquitaine. But the expectation that pre-modern historical accents should be generally British and received pronunciation, more specifically has had an undeniable hold on popular culture. Its present in Wuthering Heights (1939), Cleopatra (1963), I, Claudius (1976), Hamlet (1990), A Knights Tale (2001), Agora (2009), The Great (2020) and the list goes on.
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Easterncedar
(2,879 posts)See Spartacus. Its a pretty hilarious trope in the classic toga tales.
sl8
(16,127 posts)I'd like to see Australian, Cockney, and Canadian (ala Bob & Doug Mackenzie).
Oh, Louisiana Cajun (Creole?) would be fun, too.
Easterncedar
(2,879 posts)Back in the 1980s, the dubbing used Tuscan accents for the upstairs nobility and Sicilian for the servants.
sl8
(16,127 posts)Midnight Writer
(22,573 posts)Curtis played in several period pieces with his NY accent intact. It became the subject of many jokes and anecdotes.
Upper class English as the anachronistic norm in historical fiction I attribute to the influence of Shakespeare.
DBoon
(22,833 posts)Easterncedar
(2,879 posts)Men in Tights was more realistic. In my humble etc