Thanks for the thread DanTex.

I have never taken sanders seriously due to a complete lack of legislative accomplishments of sanders and the fact that I do not understand sanders voter revolution The NYT also did not understand how sanders voter revolution works

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That made me spit my coffee

seriously funny

We could watch him wag his finger from down here.

Anyways, promising to do something is all good but delivering on those promises is the more important part. For some reason, his followers don't seem to understand that. If his track record of getting his "revolution" become reality is any indication, I suppose there will be nothing more than words and lots of disappointed followers in the end.

Elizabeth Warren researched the problems for decades, formulated remedies, fought for her idea to create a new cabinet level agency based on those remedies, and then built it from the ground up.

A lot of people fight for the moon, and a few people are like Neil Armstrong who spends years preparing for and then successfully lands on the moon.

He also worked well with other astronauts.

Yes, I thought it was a great fit.

unless there's a fair chance you can actually get it. Politicians can tell you they're "fighting for" anything they know you want but that they can't deliver, but it's all cool as long as they're fighting for it. Hey, I'm tilting at that windmill you wanted!

statement declaring they are committed to the community which in of itself is true right until the doors close for the last time.
By that I mean yes they say one thing now however if the reality is that the store is losing money the odds are its going to close eventually which is like a campaign promise as a politician might say something now but the reality is that they often cannot make good on their promise without the support of the others in government.

Unless you are willing to settle the fight with less than the moon, probably a lot less. And Sanders has consistently refused to settle for less than exactly what he thinks is perfect.

He doesn’t understand or follow the dictum “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”

Fighting and not getting anything is losing.

Will biden fight for universal health care? Now or later?
Will Biden fight for a 15 dollar minimum wage? Now or later?
Will he fight for free college and college debt reduction? Now or later?
Will he fight for the environment? Now or later?

Or will biden say one thing and do another? Or just plan ignore us.

I really wish he can convince me he wants all those things. But Biden's supporters attacking Bernie supporters makes me seriously wonder if we bernie supporters are really welcome under this "big" tent.

He's just done so successfully.....

Would you choose a half-glass of water if that's all that's available, or would you reject it as insufficient and have no water at all?

History tells us that, legislatively speaking, Sanders has almost always refused the half-glass of water.

He's been preaching the same shit since he was an avowed Socialist in 1978.

He's also the guy against war until he got them to parked the uber expensive F-35's in Burlington. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-f-35-really-worth-the-1500000000000-price-tag-25487]

The same guy fighting for a living wage, Vt. went from 10.78 to 10.96 this year.

The same guy against private prisons while Vermont shipped 234 to Mississippi
https://vtdigger.org/2019/01/27/inside-prison-vermont-inmates-1366-miles/]

What difference has he made in his own state is a good indication of what he will do in the United States.

100% subsidized housing, imprisoning Trump and his family, and making all vehicles use biofuel?

Because those things would be really great, too. I mean, does he not want us to have those things?

If not, why doesn't he promise to *fight for* them?

sanders has zero major legislative accomplishments in the real world and there is no chance that sanders will be able to pass his agenda in the real world

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It's kind of funny.

I have never taken sanders seriously as a candidate because he has ZERO significant legislative accomplishments in the real world. As I understand it, sanders is claiming that despite his abject failure to get any significant legislation adopted, he will somehow use a magical voter revolution to get his agenda adopted? How does this magical voter revolution work in the real world? Why has sanders not used this magical voter revolution for other issues.

I like living in the real world and I do not believe in magic. Please explain how sanders' magical revolution will work and how sanders will get his agenda passed in the real world.

I live in the real world and have been busy working to turn Texas blue. sanders has zero major legislative accomplishments and there is no way that sanders will get any part of his agenda adopted in the real world. So far sanders magical voter revolution has been a bust and it appears that magic does not work in the real world

I like living in the real world which is why I like candidates who have actual accomplishments. I really have never understood the appeal of sanders.

" magic does not work in the real world"


Thanks for clarifying that.

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That's about the worst of it. It's full of molehills.

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Politicians do not go into an Octagon and beat each other up, more's the pity.

It means using all the tools at the disposal of the president: bully pulpit, appointments, executive orders, etc.

It leaves people with the impression that the lack of progress is because of a lack of will on the part of Democratic politicians, which is not the case, and leads them to then support demagogues who appear angry on TV.

That's because we haven't had a president who pushed hard for a progressive agenda for decades. Even without the presidential bully pulpit, he's already moved the needle. Every major Dem candidate is now in favor of a $15 minimum wage. Even Biden is in favor of a Green New Deal. Most Americans are now in favor of M4A, free college, and everything else on Bernie's platform. The "revolution" he talks about means getting politicians in line with the electorate, which already supports Bernie's agenda. If he becomes president his power to do that increases dramatically.

At the very least, it means we would have people like Joe Stiglitz instead of Larry Summers and Tim Geithner. Every executive branch position would be filled by a progressive. He would obviously be more aggressive with executive actions than Biden. There would be no proposals for Chained CPI. And so on. And he would never be under the illusion that Republicans could me dealt with as reasonable people, as Biden seems to think.

Biden, on the other hand, actually came out and said "nothing would fundamentally change" if he became president.

Perhaps you applied confirmation bias to something he has stated he would build on what the Obama administration accomplished?

But I'm sure you have a link to back up this accusation..

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

Biden says his presidency would not be 'a third term of Obama'

Absolutely. It is just not relevant. They can't "fight" McConnell and get anywhere. The voters have to vote for Senators who will vote yes on the bill. The POTUS is not the big miracle power who can get everything he wants.

And it contains no more and no less the wit, the wisdom and the depth of any bumper sticker.

And bumper stickers don't get people to the voting booth any more than "stop being mean!" does.

how isn't that promising the moon?

and I voted for him.

In the end, he's right.

Everyone knows he won't compromise or find common ground and mutual interests. He can't snap his fingers and magically make things happen. He's not well-liked in Congress and he doesn't work well with others. With Bernie, we would have a president always fighting but getting nowhere. His supporters understand that. They just pretend not to.

See? I can do that too.



Joe/Kamala or Biden/Harris 2020!!
Jump on the Biden Bandwagon & abandon the revolution!!

He can't "fight" the Senators and beat them! It's not a war. That's civilization. Getting along with others without resorting to violence. And that takes compromise.

When asked what he would do if McConnell was still Senate majority leader and he was president, he said he would hold rallies. Rallies would knock sense into Republicans and both sides are corrupt.

"I'll tell you, before I put anything on his plate, I would be in the state of Kentucky holding a rally, with tens of thousands of people, to say ... that we need the minimum wage, a state that is really suffering for lack of health care. We're really going to rally the American people in Kentucky. The point I make over and over, Rachel, is the ideas that I talk about are the ideas the American people want. They don't get it because you got a Congress indebted to wealthy campaign contributors."

Ridiculous. Come on.

It's common sense.

We have that now, so no thanks.

I want someone who is mostly in Washington, working hard on a daily basis to get things done.

Constantly holding rallies with adoring fans is the same as being in an echo chamber. And it's not what we elect a President to do.

medicare for 50 years and older who to thank for asking for the sun/moon and stars.


Not just medicare insurance for 50 and older, how about medicare insurance for up to 26 years? Then the group of Americans who have to buy from insurance corporations is smaller/healthier and premium costs should be lower.


Obama was a moderate and Biden is too but they both listen to everyone. Back when Obama admin worked on the ACA bill there was the "age 50 and up medicare insurance" part that was removed from the bill so it would pass and be law. This time because of the passion of progressive voices like Sanders...it won't be so easy for Republicans to obstruct positive change.

In what world, would any of them care what you or I think about these issues? People have dinged Biden for saying he would like to work with Republicans. Fine. But the "Republicans wouldn't dare obstruct positive change" meme is beyond ludicrous. Of course they would. They've been doing it for years. See: Merick Garland. See: 2008-16.

"His detractors do too, they just pretend not to."

(there's a space just below this one, free of charge, to type in a distinction lacking a relevant difference... maintaining that pretense of oppression and self-righteousness must be done at all costs)

"Fighting" for it won't get it. Any politician's "promises" are just that, saying they will sign the bill or vote for it. But they could be in the minority. That is fine, but people don't realize that and then claim the politician is "corrupt" or a let-down because it didn't actually happen.

Also those who vote for Biden/Hillary or whoever are not thinking that they will be fighting for the wealthy and the corporations. That is oversimplification at its finest.

.. you are simply willing to be lied to. You KNOW he can't deliver what he is promising. You KNOW when he says "we will do these things," You know he can't.

But his supporters seem to be more interested in aspiration than practicalities.

I mean, convert to a M4A in 4 years? No one really believes that can happen. It would take 10 years at the least. We're talking about a radical transformation of the economy.

I did some research on Bernie at one time. Actually a lot. His math never added up. It didn’t seem to matter. That was off putting.

You know, He has tons of young supporters right now who understand that social justice is different than economic justice. It’s kind of too bad, because I remember being horrified people didn’t understand this. Bernies own supporters have come around. At least the ones under 25 (purely anecdotal, I have no stats)


I believe that Bernie believes in what he’s doing. That principles over substance will change the face of American politics as we know it. That repeating things will get people to look at legislation and judge accordingly, leading people to make the right choices to help each other out and eradicate billionaires or even the idea of concentrated wealth. Spread wealth out and make things like education and healthcare “free”

No I get get Bernie this time a lot better.


I still don’t want “ideas”, ones he claims are “his”, to be the basis of passable legislation. When down to 2 choices, choice was easy for me.

is the same as promising the moon

The Republicans aren't going to give it to me. I have to rely on the Democratic Party to do it.

Bernie, at least, told me I deserved the whole chicken. That matters to me.

-Laelth

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Glad I finished my coffee before I read this.

I don’t see Bernie as a negotiator or he would have accomplished more in the senate.

There is a sucker born every minute.

Did you work on that all night?

Won't be long before Bernard will be promising free scooters and cars!! Free marihuana!!

I think this is something a lot of people misunderstand. I get it because I'm a lawyer who often engages in settlement negotiations. The first few times I did it, I took the approach Obama took with the ACA - go in with something reasonable and hope it can get done without a million rounds. That occasionally works, but most of the time what would happen is the case would end up settling for less because I started too low, and the other side still took as many rounds but just started at a lower number. Sometimes I think if Obama had started with M4A, he might have gotten a better ACA, though it's certainly possible he'd have gotten nothing at all.

That's what AOC meant last month, too, when she said that even if Bernie didn't get M4A passed, if he started there he'd likely at least get a public option.

It reminds me of my favorite quote: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."

I wish Bernie would articulate this a little better, though. But I don't think he wants to. He's too afraid of disillusionment among his most fervent but naive supporters.

just means they never accomplished or know they can't accomplish anything.

THAT WOULD BE UNITY. That they refuse and the reasons for it are understood by all who supported Warren and now Sanders.

It reminds me of kids running for middle school student council...they promise pie-in-the-sky things, like free candy for everyone or no homework, with no realistic expectation of those promises being fulfilled.

It seems like he is just insulting my intelligence. If he is really just trying to incrementally work towards his goals, then he needs to tell people what the steps are to achieving them.

Personally, I think you'll have the same problem as trying to convince them of the subtlety that he's only a "DEMOCRATIC" Socialist...

Most people will NOT give Sanders points for making lots of promises he has no chance of delivering on.

And people who aren't swayed by impossible promises will notice that Biden's agenda is very progressive.

n/t

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I never considered sanders to be a serious candidate. sanders has zero major legislative accomplishments in large part because none of his fellow Democrats in Congress support his agenda. I do not understand the concept of a voter revolution . Without such a magical voter revolution, none of sanders' agenda could be adopted and I am not comfortable in relying on a magical voter revolution

I am not only one to doubt the seriousness of sanders as a candidate https://newrepublic.com/article/156883/gauzy-myth-sanders-campaign

to present bills that specifically present his agenda in both houses of Congress over a thirty year period. Why should he start now?

I would much rather have someone give me a moon rock than someone who promises the entire moon but is unable to give me anything at all. A rock is still better than nothing.