Should he be mathematically
eliminated, he should drop out and work to unite the party.
Then we can all move on to defeat Trump.

Save ourselves, save the planet!

Last edited Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:43 AM - Edit history (1)

We will need to unite at some point to have any hope of defeating the Fascist-in-Chief!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

i don't want him, his supporters of family to get sick.
BERNIE, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, JUST QUIT.

UH, UH, UH, for the good of the country, it's my believe that Senator Bernie Sanders should stop his run for the presidency RIGHT NOW.

Seems some are fine with the tangeranus as president. Smh.

I though his campaign was based upon high youth turnout?

... but they seem to love the interaction of caucusing.

Bernie does great in caucus states.

How do we get out the youth vote?

Nothing in life is free.

Staying in until the convention, with no chance of victory is stupid. I'm all for building a progressive movement, fortunately, that does not require staying in a race you are destined to lose.

Biden's plans are already left of Obama's and with the right congress, we can may serious positive changes! A president can only accomplish as much as he/she can get through congress!

Bernie pushes his message, stays in the news, gives people like AOC more visibility, keeps holding rallies. That's what building a progressive movement is.

Why would him dropping out change that? All it would do is delay a national campaign against Trump.

And I don't see why delaying the national campaign against Trump is necessarily a bad thing. It could be either good or bad.

And yes, delaying a national campaign is bad.

(see? we can both pretend our questions are relevant despite common dense)

You can't just put aside the majority of we the people for a convention fight.

27 states have voted. And they voted against your hero.

The remaining 23 states?

If you count Wisconsin and Ohio as red states (which both seem to be now), then 13 of the remaining states are red states, where they want nothing to do with a self-proclaimed socialist. Still, BS might get Wyoming, because it's a caucus state. But that's only, what, 14 delegates, total? Whoa! Biden must be so scared of not winning there! Whatever will he do by winning a majority of the 645 remaining delegates?

Biden will win in Pennsylvania because he was born and raised there, and Delaware won't vote against their own former Senator. There's another 207 delegates Sanders couldn't get the majority of.

Catholic Rhode Island will give the majority of their 51 delegates to Catholic Biden.

If BS couldn't win VA, he won't win Maryland (96 delegates) or DC (20). The Democratic base in all three consists of federal workers who have zero love for him + African-Americans, and we know what they think of BS. Which isn't much.

If Mr Grinch couldn't win MA or WA, he won't win the majority of the whopping 460 delegates in CT, NJ, or NY. They're all more alike than they're not in their demographics and voting behavior.

What's left? Some of the territories. Yeah, the nomination hinges on BS winning in Puerto Rico (51), Guam (7), and the Virgin Islands (7). But, fine, have those if you want them.

The only states besides Wyoming where BS might eke out a win are Oregon (61 delegates) Hawaii (24) or New Mexico (34). I wouldn't count on the Hispanic vote in NM if I were you. Their demographics and voting behavior is closer to that of South Texas and El Paso. Don't get excited at how BS "won" Greater Austin, El Paso and so many of those South Texas counties, though. Because that was an illusion. What won for him wasn't increased Hispanic enthusiasm but vote splitting. If Bloomberg hadn't been in the race, Biden would have won none of the border counties, and would have lost in Austin and San Antonio, too. If you compare 2020 to 2016 numbers, population growth explains what little increase BS got in votes along the border. And when you dig deeper into California's numbers, it's the same story--Take Bloomberg out, and Biden wins the state. Take Klobuchar and Buttgieg off the ballot, and Biden would have won by double digits.

There was no Hispanic revolution for BS. He should thank Bloomberg for letting him pretend to still be relevant. That's why I think NM will go for Biden, not Sanders, but I'll be nice and still give BS their votes.

I was almost tempted to put Oregon in the category with MA, WA, CT, NJ and NY, because the state is very much the same as them, demographics-wise, but I decided to be nice here, too, and give him the pity win.

So let's see where we stand: Biden wins in states with a total of 1479 delegates. BS wins states with a total of 198 delegates. If you give only 51% to each candidate for the states he wins, that gives BS 826 more delegates. Add that to his current total of 896, for 1722 delegates. This isn't looking good. Even if all of Elizabeth Warren's 83 delegates threw their votes behind him, he'd still only have 1805 delegates....Oh dear. 1805 is a whole lot less than the 1991 delegates necessary to score the nomination!

Meanwhile Biden would get 754 of the delegates in states he won, and then 97 in the states he lost. Add that to the 1201 delegates he has now, and that's 2052. Nomination secured. No second ballot needed. No super delegates needed. Not even a need for the 91 Bloomberg, Buttgieg or Klobuchar delegates to throw their support behind Biden, even though they probably would.

And here's what's sad: The delegate count on the first ballot will probably be even higher for Biden--FAR HIGHER--than my participation trophy count. I wouldn't be surprised if he won by 60% or more in Pennsylvania, Delaware, RI and several of the red states.

But keep dreaming the impossible dream there!

that's one thing. But he is trashing Biden in the process too. Damaging either one of our potential nominees is folly. It just gives the Trump campaign sound bites to use in their ads.

1. The Democratic party would be continuing to spend money on the primary instead of banking it for the general election. That's pure waste on Bernie's long shot/ego. It should be focusing on fundraising for the general starting now.

2. The party needs to come together. The sooner it does, the better - less acrimony. Dragging this out for no useful purpose will incense and deepen the divide between the two camps and hurt the party more for the general election.

3. The party has to staff up for the general. Try to consolidate ground games, etc. The sooner that happens, the better organized and staffed they will be for the general election.

4. The party has to plan, document it's policies, and organize how it is going to win the general and assist the down ballot contests. Extending the primary delays that.

5. For the balance of the primary, Bernie is going to be taking shots at our prospective nominee - doing Donald Trump favors. Instead, the focus could shift now to starting to grind down Trump

Bernie has less than one tenth of one percent chance of winning ... before yesterday's results. His chances are worse today. We know what Bernie's policies are. We've been listening to them for 5-6 years if not his whole career. What good does Bernie continuing the primary do for the party or the prospective nominee? Not much I can think of.

I've been campaigning against Trump for the last 5 years. Haven't we all? There's no delay.
In the mean time there are millions and millions of democratic voters who want to be sure that their views are represented at the party convention, and to have our views included in our party's platform.
Just look at all the contempt that is shown to Sanders voters here. We should shut up, give up, and get in line? And let Biden voters represent our views?
We know that they won't. That's been shown right here on DU.

It's how it is. People in the states that get their primaries later in the process get over it. They always have.

Try doing the same, rather than being such whiny sore losers.

Ironic, no?

I cant tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Either way, I'm not asserting who is or isn't a Real Democrat, but I think allowing each and every person to vote and seek representation is a basic principle that shouldn't fall before the impatience of wanting to unseat the impeached president.
Calls to "get over it" and "stop whining" are Limbaugh-speak that No True Scotsman should respect. Well, I don't anyway, but I'm hearing quite a lot of it.

What's the harm? Really?

You can’t claim he’s innocent while he allows his most senior minions to launch the most vile attacks. It’s completely dishonest.

And it accomplishes nothing except harm to the general objective: defeating Trumpism. He is indeed a camera hog, and revels in surrounding himself with crowds of young fans, just like most autocrats do. But it's not a good thing. It's about self-aggrandizement and lack of introspection, nothing else.

I'd say that motivating progressives actually helps to defeat Trump.

Also, I'd argue that people who demean Bernie and his supporters might be harming that general objective. Of course, some people here seem to think that Biden doesn't need Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, and if that's true, then who cares what Bernie does?

And the threat that "Biden needs Bernie's supporters to beat Trump" is falling on deaf ears. It's a kind of bullying we acceded to in 2016, and we've learned our lesson. Threaten all you want. I, for one, don't really care.

I certainly didn't say "Biden needs Bernie's supporters to beat Trump". It's up to Biden whether he thinks he needs Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, I'm not trying to tell Biden what to do.

The best way to do it would be to concede the election after the next round of big-state primaries on March 17, and to tell his voters to get thoroughly behind Biden and vote for him in November.

He never really did that in 2016. He quietly dropped out (he never officially conceded), said he would "help" Hillary Clinton, but then just went on to give his own stump speeches about the 1% for the following months.

He needs to specifically endorse, encourage, and most importantly, get off the main stage.

He did effectively ZERO to help down ballot candidates with their races, unlike Hillary, who always included local candidates at her events and did her best to help them get elected. And unlike all the years she toiled for candidates before that as well.

And another thing: Just where was the great whiteboi savior in 2015 when the Democratic party was looking for candidates and trying to get their campaigns off the ground? How many lousy chicken dinners did he endure at mindless fundraiser after mindless fundraiser to support future candidates and/or the party during all those downtimes between elections--which too many people don't get are vital to preparing for the next election? Because I know for a fact that Hillary was there forcing herself to swallow down yet more rubber chicken to lend her support while BS was fricking nowhere to be found.

These bernbros have zero clue about how much hard work it is to be in a party. They have zero clue of how much hard work has to go into finding and preparing candidates for upcoming races. They talk as big as Dolt45 about what they want to do, but, just like him, are nowhere to be found when the party needs the hard work done to make things happen.

This is why, if the DNC hates BS, it's because he only wants to take from them, while doing precious little giving back. He refuses to do what people in a party need: to back each other up and help each other win, so that the country wins. Nobody can do it alone. It takes a team effort. It takes sweat and tears and hard, hard work.

And that's something he seems incapable of comprehending.

Resources he has to spend beating an opponent that is already beaten are resources that won't be used in the general election. Another contentious scene at the convention, which I gather you're fine with, would not be helpful either.

Snark and false bravado aside, you know it's over. The question is how much do you care about what happens after that?

is not going to mobilize them against Trump, it will just turn their energy into anger that they will turn on the person who keeps beating them county by county and state by state.

I suspect that’s what some of his supporters are hoping for.

Biden has the base (women and minorities) behind him, and he'll do quite well with those people in the squishy moderate middle who truly care about the country. You know, those people whom far too many berners treat with so much contempt, but who tend to decide who wins in November. The sane ones in your midst will do what's right, regardless of whether or not anyone kisses their feet for votes. Which won't be happening, so don't expect it. If you are a real liberal, you'll do the right thing and crawl over broken glass to vote for Biden. I have faith that most of the BS supporters are sane enough to vote for Biden because they understand what's at stake for this country if he doesn't win, rather than being petulant children throwing tantrums to get what you want and threatening to take your toys and go home if you don't get your way.

Try living up to that good will, m'kay?

Regardless of BS, then you aren't a real liberal. You're a poser or a traitor.

Or both.

his flock, increasing the likelihood that they will bolt to a third party or the Tangerine Idi Amin. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but they don’t deal with loss well at all.

But he will, giving trump talking points
He would need to be very disciplined, focusing on his issues, not on Biden. He would have to stop acting like Democrats are the enemy.

Can he do that? If not, I think if he really cares about progressive causes, he should give up. He can do more harm than good if he continues to show anger at Democrats.

Younger candidates have to move forward, and I suspect it would help if he receded into elder statesman status and let them take over.

He wants to be the Christ....




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

Age does get us all.... time is limited.

Is that the OP was hiding last night as Bernie was getting pummeled. I bet you won't see them here next Tuesday night either.

Last edited Wed Mar 11, 2020, 03:37 PM - Edit history (1)

concede? It helped them four years ago, there's no reason to think it won't help them again.

Here we go with the "Bernie is so unique" argument again.

It's not just Bernie. It's everything that isn't Republican.

Which makes sense, he stands for the opposite of all the right-wing policies they have spent their lives promoting.

The age breakdown is so obvious... I'm really over being told that the Boomers know more than us
It's time for real change!

And Millennials, by and large, didn’t turn out for Sanders. I say this as a millennial who has voted since I was 18.

And you'd be surprised at the passion in many younger voters... like gen Z

but hardly any of them have turned out in this primary. Some states it was as low as 10%, I believe.

It's anecdotal, but me and my friends preferred Inslee and then Yang. Most of the people on my TL who are pro-Bernie are older Millennials in their 30s. Other Gen Z people I know personally are already making peace with Biden as the nominee.

The ones I’m raising are little liberal hellcats.

Smug ideologues telling old people and voters of color they don't matter because they are rejecting Bernie's movement in droves.

if you ever bothered to vote in any significant numbers.

Having the strength and the class to step aside today. He has no realistic path for obtaining the nomination. Had he chosen to suspend his campaign, he would have been able to show a level of humility and offer a sign of unity with Biden. But no, in typical fashion, it's damn the torpedoes full speed ahead for Bernie. He will do nothing going forward other than continue to spur on his base and alienate even more folks who might have been sympathetic to his positions.

and potentially for generations. A 7-2, fiercely ideological right-wing court? It'll find justification to kill any remotely left-wing legislation put in front of it. It will also be near-impossible for a majority of that size to be fully overturned. It would be far more likely that it goes 8-1 or 9-0 RW than all the way back to 5-4 liberal. There would be zero point in a hypothetical left wing saviour running, let alone winning.

Beyond that, what would a second Trump win mean? The most extreme right-wing administration in history, a President with abysmal approval ratings and, in all likelihood, a faltering economy rewarded with a second term? It would probably be correct to infer from such a devastating result that Americans - at least the ones who turn up to vote - want something considerably more conservative than the Democratic Party has offered in recent years. The onus would be on the party to move considerably to the right of where Joe Biden's platform will be this year.

....he'll reach 1991 sometime in mid-April.

And even worse, his people on twitter, instagram, facebook will do untold damage to Biden and the Democratic Party.

Gray was already doing so at 2:30 AM this morning on twitter, Sirota joined later in the morning. He even did it himself in his speech at 1 PM this afternoon.

Older voters don't count. Black voters who have rejected him in droves don't count. That's what we learned today.

We're voting against him in droves.

Funny how the people doing the actual voting are voting against him. It's like we know a shameless panderer to unearned white male privilege when we see one or something.

I know you live by polls-have you seen the polls for the upcoming primary in FL?

If he and his campaign say one more word about Dem establishment rigging things or Joe is bad, then they don’t really believe their own ideas.

The time people listen to Bernie is NOW when he’s still a candidate—not after convention.

By refusing to step aside when he has no chance of winning--which he doesn't, he's only dividing the party and riling up the worst of his supporters even worse than he already has.

But expecting a severe berner to grasp reality is asking too much, I know.

And therein lies the problem. When the movement is centered around one person and that person fails to make progress, the movement has nowhere to go. Bernie's movement can't be the future of the Democratic party when it's clearly stagnating, if not in decline. His support this cycle was roughly half that of 2016, even after it became a two-person race.

The first solution to that problem is to decentralize it and find a group of people who can represent it appropriately. And stop calling it Bernie's movement. It's the progressive movement, if nothing else.

Secondly, consistent attacks on people who would otherwise be staunch allies, like Elizabeth Warren, need to stop. I would have never believed that it would be possible to alienate Elizabeth Warren, but Bernie's movement managed to do so, quite decisively.

Third, disassociate with idiots like the dirtbag left and Cenk Uygur. Get a handle on the worst of the movement, including people like David Sirota and Briahna Joy Gray. They are doing nothing but undermining the cause. If you want a place to start, make a list of everyone on the campaign that pushed the "dementia" conspiracy theory and get rid of them.

Otherwise, Bernie's movement is the future of nothing other than Bernie's movement. Democratic voters and left-leaning Independents have pretty clearly rejected the idea that it's the present, much less the future.

what he should be doing differently.

Again.

....for the last five years what we should be doing differently.

Followers of “Bernie’s Movement” that doesn’t mean fuck all because he doesn’t have a realistic plan to get any of it done. Bernie doesn’t have a history of getting much accomplished other than getting folks all worked up at his rallies. Maybe he should spend some time writing and passing actual legislation and get back to us. The rest is noise.

To cling to their delusions in support of someone who is LOSING a race. There is no winning. I could explain to you why, but I doubt you will accept hearing the cold, hard truth.

You'd think that ya'll would want to know how to win, rather than going further down in flames.

But it gives you more comfort to be the chronically aggrieved of the entitled, rather than facing reality.

and will leave a legacy that makes me proud

Tremendous post offices.

He really does.

What legacy?

What the hell does he have to show for 30 years in DC?

A bunch of bills passed naming post offices?

You call that a legacy?

Sam Rayburn is laughing from his grave at the very idea of that being deemed a legacy of legislative achievement.

have the need to be so rude?

I understand that you think Biden is a competent leader. That's fine. I am not 'laughing' at you. I believe you hold your opinions sincerely and are probably very nice.

I don't have any anger - or sarcasm for you.

Peace.

After all the hate and bile that your candidate and his supporters have leveled at those who don't follow your fraud of a pied piper--including at this very press conference, where he basically said Biden voters are too stupid to know their own minds or how to vote?

GTFOH.

Most people don't take kindly to having their intelligence or their integrity trashed that way.

And don't even get me started on how much contempt I hold your candidate and his supporters in for acting like he has any kind of new ideas or a unique message but we the great unwashed are just too stupid to get it. Because he has no such thing. His M4A is a fricking JOKE--ask anyone who has Medicare. They will be more than happy to oblige you with tales about how awful it is without supplemental policies. Maybe if that self-serving fraud had to depend on it for his own health care, or you were old enough to qualify for it--or knew someone who did, all of you would know better than to peddle that garbage idea to anyone.

Worse, Ted Kennedy had a better and more comprehensive plan in the fricking 70s that he ran on in 1980. And his entire platform was FAR--FAR--more liberal than anything your fake savior can muster up now. Sheesh, Dennis Kucinich and Paul Wellstone had better ideas and concrete plans for enacting a REAL liberal agenda than BS could ever dream of.

So if you want to know why we're sick of the bullshit that BS and his lackeys are peddling at us, now you know why. Stop insulting us, our experience, institutional knowledge, intelligence and integrity, or expect to get more backlash.

The final tally will Biden 48, Sanders 7.5, Buttigieg 1.5