K&R

they do not show up to vote in sufficient numbers to make a real impact. Period.
Why? Lots of reasons, many individualized.

I have a granddaughter who is a huge Bernie fanatic. At one time she told me she would vote for him even if he was dead. I didn't argue with her much, I figured at least she's taking an interest in politics. She turns 30 this summer. She has still never voted in her life.

was really interested, she would vote. Being thirty and never voted tells me she doesn’t really care. I am in my 60’s and have been voting since I was 18. I have voted in all Presidential elections.

be helpful.

Her interest in Bernie was before the 2016 election.

Or are the Republican voter suppression efforts against college kids successfully preventing them from getting registered?

and it Wasn't appreciated one bit.

Sanders brought cornel west on the platform and he advocated and voted for jill RF stein.. so no.

I see nothing wrong with that. I am tired of people putting him down, though.

healthcare should be a right. How stupid to think huge profitable multinational corporations should pay more in taxes and a living wage. How disgusting to think a few people shouldn’t own 90% of the worlds wealth.

Guess we’re all villains now for believing in honest liberal ideals.

And JFK gave a great speech for universal healthcare. We were behind over 50 years ago.

of us. We must be either stupid or at least not serious, rational people.

I just fail to see WHY they think Trump and Sanders are the answers.

and I still think Beto was better than all of them

... spades

but the repeated lowercase in his name seems like some middle school behavior. Or do you also decapitalize other candidates names and I just never picked up on it?

The idea that this country cannot afford health care doesn't hold up well to all the other countries with public health care. I know it's fashionable on DU right now to write that policy goal off but it is one I feel strongly about. I think people in this country should have access to health care and, last I checked, it is a pretty common belief among us Democrats.

Biden will do the best he can for me and you and all the rest of us, I trust him that far, for sure. I'll see you in the volunteer ranks if you feel the same, and I'll be working shoulder to shoulder with you. But Jesus, folks, can we just afford Sanders the same respect we would afford anyone else? The man's campaign is all done so you really don't have anything further to fear from him, right? He'll presumably go back to the independent senator from Vermont who votes with the Democratic party, and will not be running for president again.

The real world is a nice place and in the real world you have to be able to pay for programs. sanders has zero significant legislative accomplishments because non of his fellow Democrats believe in adopting programs that cannot be paid for.

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It is hard to take sanders seriously when he has zero legislative accomplishments and his magical voter revolution has flopped.

As for respect, I was a delegate to the National Convention and saw far too much of sanders and his supporters. Delegates to a national convention are vetted by the campaigns because these delegates are official representatives of the campaign and the candidate. I know that I was vetted and I helped vet other delegates.

I saw what happened there up close. sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis. I was warned about this stunt 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this event and declined. I also heard a Georgia delegate complain about sanders refusal to stop these planned stunts.

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Hillary Clinton and change our votes to sanders.




sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his vetted delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally a group of sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. Again sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and sanders refused

Texas and Georgia shared a bus from our hotels to the convention site. There were some really pissed off members of the Georgia delegation after John Lewis and Stacy Abrams were both booed as part of planned stunts by sanders vetted delegates. If sanders stays in until the Georgia primary it will be interesting to see if sanders makes the 15% threshold.

As for volunteering, I will be active with Lawyers for Biden the Texas state party on voter protection efforts.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_and_Social_Care_in_Northern_Ireland

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report this covers the Nordic countries

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_South_Korea

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Taiwan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

That's all the time I have before going to work here, but the point is clear, hopefully. Note the details of how much public vs private funding makes up each country's system, and especially note cost of healthcare as expressed by portion of GDP. Said another way: note that the lower few countries on this list of links do incorporate private insurance but in a far, far more intelligently and compassionately limited way than we do in this country.

I simply have never heard an argument about how the current health care system in this country is A) worth it compared to more modern approach consistent with economically powerful western countries, B) a more efficient use of the money it costs here at an UNBELIEVABLE 17.7 PERCENT of GDP but wherein medical bankruptcy is not rare with serious diseases or simply bad luck about what town you are in when you have a serious and urgent medical event, let alone all the more sadly boring examples of insufficient access to care, or C) unattainable by enough people in this country.

Hell, let's drop your vaunted Switzerland's numbers in to compare: with their compulsory purchase of private health insurance, they are the second highest in the WORLD. Want to guess which country they are second to?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

sanders has attempted to introduce this plan and has failed because he cannot pay for his plan in the real world. Such a plan in theory may generate societal savings but such savings would not pay for a program. Governments can only spend tax revenues and/or borrowings. This study does not say how one would pay for such a program in the real world. I note that Prof. Krugman like the concepts of such a plan in theory but notes that taxes will have to be raised a great deal to pay for such a plan
Back in 2016, here is his position Prof. Krugman compares Sanders hoped for health care savings to the GOP tax cuts. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/weakened-at-bernies/?_r=0

Today, Prof. Krugman says that such a plan is feasible if you are willing to pay a great deal more in taxes
https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/paul-krugman-explains-why-single-payer-health-care-entirely-achievable-us-and-how

The amount of higher taxes are not quantified in this article by Krugman. To pay for any such plan will require massive tax hikes

Again sanders has utterly failed in his attempts to get Vermont to adopt his magical single payer plan because the state of Vermont cannot use hypothetical societal saving to pay for this plan. Even Krugman admits that much higher taxes are needed

A deep-blue state’s failure to enact a single-payer system shows why a national version is unlikely to succeed. www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/opinion/bernie-sanders-single-payer.html

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The real world is a nice place. sanders plan was a complete failure in Vermont which is why this plan will not work nationwide.

are located in an unreal world? Someone should really tell them, I hope they are ok there!

I am guessing you'll reignore this but just to recap: 17.7% of US GDP spent on health care, with most still unable to access it and many losing their savings and homes attempting to pay for it, let alone the gofundme awfulness. You honestly believe this is the way to go? Great, enjoy the privilege you presumably have in order to feel that way. Lawyers do tend to be fairly secure, financially. But a lot of us cannot play that game,and many who could simply face the moral and ethical and policy dilemma it presents, and think there are other ways such as the ones modeled in the dozens of countries who outperform and underspend us on health care.

Assuming their world is as real as ours, that is..

That was amusing but your material did not help your argument at all. In the real world, the concept is to cite material that supports ones argument.

In the real world, sanders is not taken seriously because he has no serious legislative accomplishments. sanders has no way to pass any of his legislative agenda in the real world because his fellow Democrats do not take sanders seriously

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There are not enough Democratic votes to get this concept passed in the real world

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Even sanders one friend in the senate does not take sanders seriously

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Good luck if getting anyone to take sanders plans seriously in the real world

I am glad that sanders will not be the nominee. If sanders was serious about his plan, sanders needs to know how much it costs

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I've found that tactic generally ineffective towards the goal of discussion, which I view as a primary feature of a discussion board.

My assumption is you'll keep on that train on your next reply. If that's the case then I won't continue this nondialogue. But to your possibly-sincere point about cost/benefit analysis of different health care approaches, here is one https://www.law.berkeley.edu/press-release/new-health-care-study-public-option-would-generate-more-benefits-savings-than-projected/ angle. And here is https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-management-administration/single-payer-vs-public-option-comparing-cost-coverage.html another related approach. Note the projected savings of the two different approaches in the second link. One saves significantly more. Neither involve the current nightmare of the reality that millions of Americans can't access health care because of cost and administration.

The first study backs up the Biden plan and is contrary to sanders' magical plan. The second study you posted was amusing. You may want to re-read the prior post on societal savings. The second study relies on magical societal savings that are not tax revenues in the real world and cannot be used to pay for a program. Societal saving are speculative at best and cannot be used to pay for a program which is why sanders utterly and completely failed in getting Vermont to adopt his magical plan.

I used to be a college debater and I know now studies such as the one cited are prepared. It seems that there are some fairly aggressive assumptions used in this study and I doubt that these savings will be realized in the real world. There is a reason why sanders has totally and utterly failed to get his magical single payer plan adopted in the real world which is that policy makers cannot us magical or theoretical savings to pay for a program.

Prof. Krugman and I treat the so-called societal savings the same way that we both treat the magical economic growth that is supposed to be generated from GOP tax cuts. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/weakened-at-bernies/?_r=0

GOP tax cuts are not magical and never pay for themselves.

If you want the second study to be taken seriously in the real world, then identify how the plan will be paid for. A government cannot spend magical savings and can only use tax revenues. The study identify societal savings which are nice but which are not tax revenues

The real world is a nice place. Magical savings are nice but cannot be used in the real world. sanders has utterly and completely failed to get his magical plan adopted anywhere including Vermont. sanders is careful to never tell anyone how he would pay for his program and cite amusing but worthless studies like the one in the OP. No governmental entity have accepted sanders plan because it would need a large raise in taxes.

The real world is a nice place.

in upcoming primary states and it really trashes Biden. It will probably lose him votes in the General.

So...no.

I definitely am not in support of trying to tear down Biden as the guy will almost certainly be our nominee.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287665895

Showing around the clock in Florida too.

And PS: see this post about how it is completely deceptive and untrue:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287665895#post3

And this post on how BS did the SAME thing:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287665895#post3

So no. He needs to go, and he needs to go now.

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he did say them, though, no? I do personally not want to see social security cut because it is the only safety net (though inadequate) that a lot of people have.

It does read as a somewhat misleading presentation, though, given Sanders words in that same era, although it does seem that Sanders took a stand in the end and refused to 'compromise' with republicans trying to gut or end social security. Sometimes compromise is the right thing to do and sometimes it is the wrong move.

When you initially posted this, I was worried it was going to be some kind of grotesque attack ad. That is not what I am seeing here. I think it is part of Sanders' effort to try and keep the American progressive agenda on the radar even as we pivot out of the primaries.

My 0.02. Thanks for linking me to this video.

This is not a good issue for sanders when sanders is guilty of the exact same conduct in the real world

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