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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

RandySF

(70,243 posts)
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 12:35 AM Mar 2020

Sanders May Have Learned Wrong Lessons From 2016

However long Sanders remains in the race, Biden’s resurgence laid bare that, at his core, the senator is in some ways more of a cause than a candidate. And movement politics rarely lead to winning national elections.

Sanders’ team also appears to have underappreciated the shift in the nation’s suburbs away from Trump and toward centrist Democrats who were vital in sweeping the party back into control of the House in 2018.

Sanders’ embrace of democratic socialism is particularly scary to such educated moderates, who, above all, are looking for the most “electable” candidate to take on Trump this fall.

“Bernie is Captain 35%. That’s the magic number of the ultra-liberal, ultra-progressives that are standing with him bar none,” Democratic pollster Jeff Pollock said. “He failed to grow.”

As disappointing as that may be for Sanders, it’s also a warning sign for Trump, who has repeatedly tailored his appeal to his most fervent supporters. Both men found success in 2016 in part because they could benefit from the public’s harsh judgment of Hillary Clinton, who contended with both unwarranted sexism and self-inflicted wounds built up over more than three decades in the public eye.

Without Clinton as a foil in 2020, the appeal of Sanders didn’t seem to expand beyond his most loyal supporters. Trump could face the same challenge in the fall.




https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/12/sanders_may_have_learned_wrong_lessons_from_2016_142643.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Sanders May Have Learned Wrong Lessons From 2016 (Original Post) RandySF Mar 2020 OP
K&R Tarheel_Dem Mar 2020 #1
Right on. It may be necessary to kick this article well into next week. oasis Mar 2020 #2
lol.. Bookmarking.. Good article! Cha Mar 2020 #6
People are craving normalcy. I know I sure the fuck am. nt SunSeeker Mar 2020 #14
I know right! And they tried to make Cha Mar 2020 #16
Capt 35% Planned to Ride Into the Convention With the Most Delegates in a Crowded Field Indykatie Mar 2020 #3
I agree. He learned being disruptive and causing chaos afford him attention and accomodation. LizBeth Mar 2020 #4
I do believe you are correct. comradebillyboy Mar 2020 #29
Ya think? Cha Mar 2020 #5
The real question is PolarPop Mar 2020 #7
hopefully, absolute DISGUST with Trump will be enough Skittles Mar 2020 #9
They sit it out voting for him. We can't pull them over. Not voting for Sanders, they are not LizBeth Mar 2020 #10
Some of those 35% aren't going to switch to Joe... WePurrsevere Mar 2020 #17
Bravo WePurrsevere, excellent points made in your post #17. oasis Mar 2020 #22
Thank you! nt WePurrsevere Mar 2020 #23
How much of Bernie's support really needs to be "courted"? dansolo Mar 2020 #18
No, not suggesting that PolarPop Mar 2020 #24
I think that was Hillary's mistake... Moving too far left. showblue22 Mar 2020 #38
Welcome to DU... SidDithers Mar 2020 #25
I doubt anything will stop some from sitting out...we will have to move right as we did in 18 and Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #30
We don't need to move right. Turin_C3PO Mar 2020 #32
Moderates won the House...and will likely win Senate seats this year. We already have moved right. Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #34
No way. showblue22 Mar 2020 #39
he didn't learn ANY lesson Skittles Mar 2020 #8
I think 35% is generous. LizBeth Mar 2020 #11
for who? Skittles Mar 2020 #13
Lol, Sanders. I think it is more like 28-32%. LizBeth Mar 2020 #15
Bernie's big strength is that he has been saying/campaigning the exact same way for 40 years TeamPooka Mar 2020 #12
Yes and after the Vermont result, I bet we can beat him by running a Democrat in the primary. Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #31
"He failed to grow." NurseJackie Mar 2020 #19
His "embrace of democratic socialism" isn't "scary." It's pseudo. betsuni Mar 2020 #20
That would require that he believe he made a mistake. ehrnst Mar 2020 #21
I didn't realize romana Mar 2020 #26
Many underestimated what % of his 2016 support was anti-Hillary. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #27
It hurts me to admit this very thing, Twilight peggysue2 Mar 2020 #36
Another poster a while back said that we've been looking at HRC all wrong. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #40
x1000, Twilight peggysue2 Mar 2020 #41
The Democratic Party could learn from Sanders' repertoire dalton99a Mar 2020 #28
sanders comments in Castro are hurting sanders Gothmog Mar 2020 #33
He never tried to get old black voters BluesClues Mar 2020 #35
That's because he didn't march with MLK showblue22 Mar 2020 #37
 

oasis

(51,568 posts)
2. Right on. It may be necessary to kick this article well into next week.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 12:50 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(304,721 posts)
6. lol.. Bookmarking.. Good article!
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 02:35 AM
Mar 2020
Sanders’ team also appears to have underappreciated the shift in the nation’s suburbs away from Trump and toward centrist Democrats who were vital in sweeping the party back into control of the House in 2018

oasis
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(53,507 posts)
14. People are craving normalcy. I know I sure the fuck am. nt
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:19 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(304,721 posts)
16. I know right! And they tried to make
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:36 AM
Mar 2020

"normal"/"normalcy" a bad word. Didn't work, though.. I see too many testimonials from recent primary voters who are craving just what you say.

The complete evil idiocy of this impeached demon made it happen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Indykatie

(3,850 posts)
3. Capt 35% Planned to Ride Into the Convention With the Most Delegates in a Crowded Field
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 12:57 AM
Mar 2020

It would have worked too if it hadn't been for those meddling kids Amy and Pete. Their quick withdrawal from the race allowed Dems to do in 2020 what the GOP couldn't pull off in 2016; Coalesce around the strongest candidate. Bet Bernie and his camp didn't see that coming.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LizBeth

(10,674 posts)
4. I agree. He learned being disruptive and causing chaos afford him attention and accomodation.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 01:58 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

comradebillyboy

(10,424 posts)
29. I do believe you are correct.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:49 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(304,721 posts)
5. Ya think?
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 02:34 AM
Mar 2020
Sanders’ team also appears to have underappreciated the shift in the nation’s suburbs away from Trump and toward centrist Democrats who were vital in sweeping the party back into control of the House in 2018

Good article.. Thanks, RSF!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PolarPop

(18 posts)
7. The real question is
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:00 AM
Mar 2020

What did the party learn? Biden is clearly going to be the nominee, but how to we court Bernie’s 35%?

A progressive VP? Adopt Medicare for all? What does it take to keep them from sitting out?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Skittles

(158,228 posts)
9. hopefully, absolute DISGUST with Trump will be enough
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:07 AM
Mar 2020

it SHOULD be enough

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LizBeth

(10,674 posts)
10. They sit it out voting for him. We can't pull them over. Not voting for Sanders, they are not
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:09 AM
Mar 2020

voting for Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

WePurrsevere

(24,259 posts)
17. Some of those 35% aren't going to switch to Joe...
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 05:02 AM
Mar 2020

Unless Bernie is his VP and that's probably not going to happen any more than Joe adopting a Medicare For All platform. While I'm even more left on socialized health/medical I also feel that realistically it's probably not happening at this time (although COVID-19 'might' change some hearts and minds) and would be quite happy just to get the ACA pulled back together, strengthened and improved on 'for now'.

Anyway, I think some more Bernie supporters might be won over if Joe goes with a minority and/or someone they perceive as more liberal. I think most Bernie supporters have already started to (in their minds at least) or will switch after the convention. Of course there will be those that sit out after that or switch to whichever 'left' spoiler runs. IME those types probably won't be won over (and we'd lose too many others if we were to try).

The thing is we can't realistically please everyone. What we 'can' and need to do is 'please' enough to get Trump out of power and put in someone who is not only sane and capable but is smart and yet humble enough to set aside their own ego and surround themselves with honest to goodness sane and highly capable and experienced people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oasis

(51,568 posts)
22. Bravo WePurrsevere, excellent points made in your post #17.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:09 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dansolo

(5,379 posts)
18. How much of Bernie's support really needs to be "courted"?
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 05:42 AM
Mar 2020

I hope you aren't suggesting that none of Bernie's supporters would vote for Joe Biden against Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PolarPop

(18 posts)
24. No, not suggesting that
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:26 AM
Mar 2020

But I see a lot of them saying it’s Bernie or no one lately. In particular some some of the YouTube shows have been pumping that out.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

showblue22

(1,026 posts)
38. I think that was Hillary's mistake... Moving too far left.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 04:07 PM
Mar 2020

She courted them, allowed Bernie's campaign to have a say in the platform and made many concessions. It might have hurt her with the more moderates. Not this time. Joe has black folks, suburban moms, never Trumpers and white working class. Bernie is only doing good with youth and West Coast Latinos. Those youtube people are obviously not voting so why risk losing moderates to court them?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
25. Welcome to DU...
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:29 AM
Mar 2020


Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(70,914 posts)
30. I doubt anything will stop some from sitting out...we will have to move right as we did in 18 and
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:52 AM
Mar 2020

build a new coalition. And that is a real shame. I look at Sen Sanders and I see someone who hasn't helped our party or the progressive cause. I certainly would not agree to M4A as it is a loser in the general nor would I agree to any VP who could hurt the ticket to court voters who may not even vote for us no matter what we do. I look at 16 and think attempting to placate such voters does not help us. Sanders did not do enough to help Clinton win the general...and to put Stein voters in his campaign sent a message to those who's hearts are still broken with the election of Trump. We must do everything in out power to defeat Trump. Sanders needs to step aside. He is mathematically eliminated from winning the nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Turin_C3PO

(15,505 posts)
32. We don't need to move right.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 10:28 AM
Mar 2020

Joe’s positions as they stand now are fine and sensible enough to win the general election.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(70,914 posts)
34. Moderates won the House...and will likely win Senate seats this year. We already have moved right.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 01:58 PM
Mar 2020

Joe is a progressive...nothing to do with Joe. However, when Hillary lost and Trump was elected, we lurched right and the only way we can have power again is to appeal to voters in red and purple states...look at the Senate and look at the house. We need a 50 state solution to attain and retain power...and we need to try to get our progressive message out at the same time. But the reality is some of the things I support as a progressive aren't going to happen. It could have been different is our Green/left friends supported Hillary in the General.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

showblue22

(1,026 posts)
39. No way.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 04:14 PM
Mar 2020

Bernie's base are not reliable voters. Biden needs to stay in the middle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Skittles

(158,228 posts)
8. he didn't learn ANY lesson
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:07 AM
Mar 2020

and 35% - isn't that the same for MAGAts?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LizBeth

(10,674 posts)
11. I think 35% is generous.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:09 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LizBeth

(10,674 posts)
15. Lol, Sanders. I think it is more like 28-32%.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:23 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TeamPooka

(25,210 posts)
12. Bernie's big strength is that he has been saying/campaigning the exact same way for 40 years
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:17 AM
Mar 2020

Bernie's big weakness is that he has been saying/campaigning the exact same way for 40 years

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(70,914 posts)
31. Yes and after the Vermont result, I bet we can beat him by running a Democrat in the primary.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 10:00 AM
Mar 2020

He isn't as popular as we thought. He got 51% in his home state.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
19. "He failed to grow."
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 06:15 AM
Mar 2020

“Bernie is Captain 35%."

He's a very divisive politician. His demeanor and temperament are not the sort that people find attractive or desirable in someone who wants to lead our party and our nation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(27,255 posts)
20. His "embrace of democratic socialism" isn't "scary." It's pseudo.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 06:24 AM
Mar 2020

That's why "educated" people don't like it. Duh.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
21. That would require that he believe he made a mistake.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 06:41 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

romana

(765 posts)
26. I didn't realize
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:33 AM
Mar 2020

"self-inflicted wounds" meant 30 years of GOP smearing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(28,356 posts)
27. Many underestimated what % of his 2016 support was anti-Hillary.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:36 AM
Mar 2020

Based on his current level of support, it could have been as much as half.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(11,460 posts)
36. It hurts me to admit this very thing, Twilight
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:52 PM
Mar 2020

I was a staunch supporter of HRC in 2008 & 2016. Can't tell you how much I've admired her efforts over the years, her tireless defense of the vulnerable, her dogged support of women and children. But the truth is the 30-year harangue from the GOP, the absurd Benghazi investigations and email scam, the raw sexism, not to mention the Russian interference in 2016 all dented Hillary's reputation, support and the nearly 70% approval rating she had leaving the State Department.

Then entered the Bernie or Bust supporters, the Jill Stein cheerleaders and the hateful misogyny coming from presumably Democratic quarters and the die was cast. It's a miracle Clinton walked off with nearly a 3 million popular vote advantage in 2016.

The recent vote in Michigan showed clearly that the white working class, those who threw their vote to Sanders in 2016, turned on a dime and voted for Joe Biden this time out. The very group that Sanders beat his chest about turned their backs on him. Without Hillary Clinton in the mix, those Democrats flocked to Biden, the pragmatic liberal, not the self-proclaimed socialist.

Bernie's movement was built on the flimsiest of foundations, sand. We're watching it wash away in realtime. If Bernie's supporters want to vote for Trump or not vote at all in a fit of spite? That's on them. Means the rest of us will need to work all the harder to ensure a Democratic victory. But another thing will happen:

We Won't Forget!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(28,356 posts)
40. Another poster a while back said that we've been looking at HRC all wrong.
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 04:26 PM
Mar 2020

The poster was framing it in the context of Warren's somewhat underwhelming showing in this cycle's primaries and the inability of the female candidates to make a significant run, even though Harris, Warren, and Klobuchar are all solid candidates. Other than a brief lead for Warren, they really didn't make a dent and yet Hillary, with everything you mentioned, dominated the primaries and was 70k votes in three states from the presidency. All the inherent bias, plus 30 years of attacks and a lot of apathy on the left.

It's a perspective I share. Trump had to have a million things (plus 70k) go right and there was a lot of external influence, foreign and domestic. Otherwise, Hillary is president and we're in an entirely different world. It really was a remarkable achievement, considering the context.

I agree on Bernie's supporters. Those who won't vote for Biden likely were never going to vote for anyone other than Bernie (if they even showed up at all), and our focus should be on those we can reach. The threat of another four years of Trump should be clear, but obviously not to all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dalton99a

(84,048 posts)
28. The Democratic Party could learn from Sanders' repertoire
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 09:45 AM
Mar 2020

1. Revolutionary rhetoric
2. Honorific naming of U.S. post offices



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(153,882 posts)
33. sanders comments in Castro are hurting sanders
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 11:07 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BluesClues

(14 posts)
35. He never tried to get old black voters
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 02:00 PM
Mar 2020

I never heard him say I marched with MLK or anything like that

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

showblue22

(1,026 posts)
37. That's because he didn't march with MLK
Sat Mar 14, 2020, 04:00 PM
Mar 2020

He attended a rally in DC called The March on Washington, the same one Mitch McConnell was at.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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