Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumJoe Biden Can Be the Next Lyndon Johnson In Terms of Passing Landmark Legislation
Before he was President, Lyndon Johnson was a southern democrat who espoused moderate views. He was known as a master deal maker, and no one would have imagined that major bills like the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Food Stamp Act of 1964, the Housing and Urban Development Act of 1965; and the Social Security Amendments of 1965. Put another way, before he was President, Lyndon Johnson was hardly considered a liberal idealogue. What he knew how to do was pass legislation as a former Democratic Senate Leader.
Between Biden and Sanders, Joe Biden is the most similar to Lyndon Johnson. Biden, who served 36 years in the Senate before leaving to join Obamas administration, authored 20 meaningful bills during his time in the Senate. His final two years in office, when he chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, were notably active: In those two years, seven Biden-authored bills were signed into law. Of course, as a Vice-President, Biden was invaluable in the passage of the ACA.
In contrast, while Bernie introduced 324 bills, about three became law. This includes a bill naming a post office in Vermont and two more while Democrats had control (one naming another Vermont post office and another increasing veterans disability compensation). Bernie has been loud and outspoken and has made a career of attacking (and alienating) Democrats. In this sense, Bernie is like George McGovern who failed miserably at uniting the Democratic party. In the weeks leading to Super Tuesday, Bernie went all-in attacking the, "Democratic establishment," which alienated many Democrats and contributed to his huge losses.
The ability to develop coalitions is also on display in terms of the ability to get former rivals to endorse them. Biden is way ahead of Bernie on this metric with Bernie Sanders not even able to get his former protege and fellow Sanders Institute founder, Tulsi Gabbard, to endorse him.
I think a common mistake folks have is that they believe that the most ideologically rigid and vocal candidate will be the most effective. This is not true. For all of his faults, Lyndon Johnson was a master at developing the relationships to pass major liberal legislation despite the fact that he was hardly seen as an ideologue prior to his Presidency.
Ironically, if Bernie Sanders really wants to pass meaningful healthcare reform, it would be far better if Joe Biden were President and not him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)and the Trump regime through obstruction and executive orders exposed how governing by fiat forces reactive pushback and authoritarianism. We have a dictator in place of a government with three functioning parts engaged in democratic governance. We need to restore the Constitution and democracy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
onetexan
(13,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mucifer
(24,728 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,719 posts)...signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Heck, Lyndon Johnson was allegedly said racist things in private, yet he was also prescient in terms of describing the modern Republican Party:
Bernie is not going to be able to pass Single Payer through a series of roll call amendments. If Bernie wants to get things done, and is not in it for the ego, then Bernie need Joe Biden as President, because Donald Trump sure as hell is not going to do it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(28,356 posts)Give Biden a Congress that will put progressive legislation on his desk and you'll see progressive reforms.
It really is that simple. The same would have been true of many candidates in this year's primaries.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ponietz
(3,257 posts)Johnson carried the ball as Biden must, too.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/04/what-the-hells-the-presidency-for/358630/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(28,356 posts)My point is that without a Congress that will pass that legislation, it goes nowhere. If LBJ hadn't had an amenable Congress, no amount of "convincing" would have been enough. It's vitally important that we keep the House and somehow regain the Senate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)the solid Dem South for years, and would lead to Republican victory before long.
LBJ was arguable the most powerful Senate Majority leader ever. LBJ knew power.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Voters may well put in overwhelming Dem majorities and that will be great. Very unlikely to put 'Progressives' in any kind of majority.
The entire 2018 shift that elected Pelosi, [far left blue wave myths aside], came from 42? red destricts.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(28,356 posts)That factor is often highly underestimated.
Yes, most of the seat flips (30+) were moderates in purple/red districts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,719 posts)JFK was an inspiring and effective speaker, but given his narrow margin of victory over Nixon, he was not necessarily seeking revolution. Rather, given his background, he was clearly anti-communist. And JFK's selection of Lyndon Johnson was opposed by liberals. Yet, in the end, it was Lyndon Johnson who pushed the major pieces of progressive legislation over the finish line.
Kennedy's health insurance bill, which would have paid for hospitalization and nursing costs for the elderly, failed to pass either house of Congress due to the opposition of Republicans, Southern Democrats, and the American Medical Association. However, it was LBJ was able to get Medicare signed into law.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,719 posts)I don't think its an accident that Lyndon Johnson, a former Senate Majority Leader, was one of historys most legislatively active presidencies. I agree it depends on what Congress puts on his desk, but I think Biden will be far more effective in influencing that process than Bernie.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johncoleman/2018/07/30/the-johnson-treatment-pushing-and-persuading-like-lbj/#163c400e4201
How did he do it? There is a wonderful photo of Lyndon Johnson and Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas. Johnson is towering over Fortas, smiling and invading his space as the jurist uncomfortably leans back and clinches his arms to his chest. That photo has become emblematic of what became known as the Johnson TreatmentLyndon Johnsons persuasive tactics described by Mary McGrory as an incredible, potent mixture of persuasion, badgering, flattery, threats, reminders of past favors and future advantages. As a participant in the Presidential Leadership Scholars (PLS), a leadership development program sponsored by four presidential libraries or centers, I had the opportunity to spend a weekend learning about the Johnson presidency at the LBJ Ranch and the LBJ Library. And I learned a great deal more about the 36th presidents approach to persuasion. Its not for everyoneleadership styles are differentbut it often worked for LBJ and is worth understanding today.
So how did LBJ persuade? First, hed establish a vision and a purpose. In Mark Updegroves Indomitable Will: LBJ in the Presidency, Jack Valenti recounts how, the evening of Kennedys assassination in Dallas, Johnson sat at home with his team and spent five hours mapping what would become the Great Society agenda. He knew with stunning precision the mountaintop to which he was going to summon people, Valenti recalled. That vision for his presidency became the purpose and focal point of his persuasion. Often in seeking to persuade people we lose sight of the end goalwhere were headed with our persuasion. But Johnson knew that vision and purpose are foundational to persuasion.
* * *
Perhaps the most defining element of President Johnsons persuasion was the Johnson Treatment itselfhe was willing to push people. For better or worse, he would harangue, threaten, flatter and bully. This was evident in Johnsons dealings with his mentor, longtime Georgia Senator Dick Russell. In establishing the Warren Commissionwhich was responsible for investigating the Kennedy assassinationJohnson knew Russell didnt want to serve, but announced Russells involvement before asking him then bullied him into it in a phone call. As recorded in Indomitable Will, he then pushed past Russella dedicated segregationistto get Civil Rights Act passed, telling him, Dick, I love you and I owe you. But....Im going to run over you if you challenge me on this civil-rights bill. He did just thatleading to Russell boycotting the Democratic convention in 1964. Similarly, after Bloody Sunday in Selma, Johnson summoned George Wallace to a meeting at the White House [DOC] in which he physically loomed over the man and badgered him for hours on subjects from voting rights to protecting demonstrators. He made people uneasy. He invaded their space. And he kept after them. This kind of persistence is uncomfortable for most of us but essential for LBJ.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(28,356 posts)That is a factor that is often underestimated. The LBJ museum has a whole section talking about the influence and the interconnections between JFK's death, JFK's agenda and LBJ's. They were inextricably linked due to circumstances.
There is no doubt that LBJ bullied his way to passing many of his landmark acts, but he also had a lot of leverage.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)as well as the house, so he can sign their legislation, but yes. We're in a time of literally desperate need for landmark legislation on many fronts, and we're the only people who can and will meet that need.
Among Biden's many plusses is a very widespread trust and familiarity that can mean really big coattails. For those who haven't lived through a lot of these things, when electorates feel they're pushing the box with a president or governor, they usually give control of congress and legislatures to the other party to act as a leash.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pwb
(12,186 posts).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
William769
(55,783 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
H2O Man
(75,294 posts)*Recommended)
LBJ was a master of bothe the House (1937-'49) as well as the Senate. He had a great understanding of systems. His success as president was not entirely based upon JFK's death, as is too often mistakenly assumed. There was serious public pressure on the issues involving Civil Rights, as the most obvious example.
Johnson was a complex man. But for Vietnam, he would definitely be ranked in the top 3 or 4 presidents in our nation's history.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,719 posts)...as a very progressive President by virtue of all of all of his landmark legislative accomplishments. Yet, he was definitely not seen as progressive or liberal at the time with liberal Democrats opposing his addition to the JFK ticket.
I agree that you cannot legislate in a vacuum. in the end, you have to legislate against the existing social backdrop. But that just confirms the case that its evolution and response to grassroots pressure, rather than a top down ideologue that is most effective in a Democratic society.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
It's our duty to create those conditions today!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(304,720 posts)Side note.. amazing you're Undecided!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,719 posts)I feel kind of funny switching my preference again, since it does not actually reflect how I voted. Between Sanders and Biden, I definitely would choose Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,720 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Midnight Writer
(22,932 posts)The Dreamer has the ideas, the ideals, the romance, the vision.
The Doer is the person who gets the job done.
Just like an architect makes the plans, but it takes a carpenter to build the house.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,719 posts)...and the fact that was and remains a non-factor on major legislation underscores how ineffective he is as a leader and a legislator. Joe Biden was a committee chairman who knew how to get legislation passed.
On the other hand, Bernie can bloviate from the sidelines, but the fact that he is not even bothering to show up for work in the Senate is tacit admission that he is really has not ability to advance any portion of his agenda as a Senator, and it casts serious doubt on his ability to pass any portion of his platform.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,882 posts)Joe will be able to get a great deal done as POTUS
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hekate
(94,322 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to vote blue down the ballot for big change. VP Biden's coattails could be huge.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden