Here is an article about Bernie's early efforts to undermine Beto O'Rourke by pushing false claims that he was funded by the oil and gas industry. As we have seen, and will continue to see, much of Bernie's debates are not so much focused on policy save for rote renditions of his stump speech. Instead, he loves to attack his opponents character and integrity. When Trump does this, we can readily see it, but with Bernie, if you point this out, it is considered divisive.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/bernie-sanders-fans-can-t-be-allowed-poison-another-democratic-ncna953976

powerful For our Democracy to let that happen.

He is just hurting himself. Like Trump no one believes him. Desperation is corrosive.

During the debate? If not I have no intention of spreading his lie. It is still running here.

He would pull thos stunt again?and are they going to continue letting Independents run in the future?seems the DNC is too damn weakwilled & useless. This sets a dangerous precedent going forward.

If you think the friction and animosity are bad now, imagine the argy bargy going down in a 3 way shoot out, especially from millions of Greens/Sanders (or whatever party he chose to run on, if any at all) supporters unleashed from all pretence of caring about us actual Democratic supporters and the Party itself.

It mostly boils down to the constitutional electoral system itself. A lack of proportional representation forces disparate groups to band together under a common umbrella, and at times the tensions are so great it actually can cause a party to implode if it is driven too far in one direction or another, to the point where one side just says fuck it, we will never support this agenda, even if it means the other main Party in the 2 party dichotomy wins a few elections in a row. There is no pressure release valve other than a systemic rupture if the gaps become too large to sustain the overall bond of some semblance of commonality. I think the first signs will be a repeated levels of voter defection by the left, whether it is to scattered 3rd parties or staying home and not voting at all.

That will only serve to worsen the situation, as the party will shift further right to capture the centre right voters to make up for the lost farther left voters. A negative, self-reinforcing feedback loop is thus potentially set up, as there is only so far a party can move left or right (in a captured 2 party system) without really starting to haemorrhage its ends to such a degree it collapses overall. Of course, thsi could also happen to the Rethugs, BUT, in their case, their extreme elements took over the party, and so far their centre-right voters are mostly on board, as they are bought off via the overriding savage economic philosophy that the right wing of the right wing also shares with them.

the more i hear of this guy the more i think he's whacked. He hasn't achieved anything of significance in his life other than being elected to the Senate. His ideas of nonsensical and a reflection of his egotistical self. They need to put an end to non-Dems running as Dems. We've witnessed both in 2016 & now that he & his rabid followers are intent on destroying the Democratic party from within. Highly dangerous. The DNC needs to step in and put a stop to his campaign for Joe to focus on beating the Idiot in the GE.

they would easily double or treble the defection rate amongst his primary supporters. If it was really handled brutally, Bernie might go full rogue and run 3rd party/indie, and at that point, the states that have sore loser laws would not be able to legally enforce them, as the Sanderites will argue they were ejected from the primaries against their will. I think that argument from them would hold up in the various state courts.

It is up to Bernie to drop out, unfortunately. These type of decisions can not be dictated from the top down with impunity, as the entire election process does not exist in a vacuum where people can just push a button and get the desired outcome.

pathetic. Screw this talk of BS going full rogue and running 3rd party, it's already clear what his intentions are. I don't think the American public are that stupid at this juncture and will vote for the guy with the best chance to beat the Idiot: Biden.
Going forward the freaking DNC needs to implement new rules to disallow any non-Dem candidate from running.

Sanders is pretty unique.

There is a reason he has hired all green party voters.



“What I’ve seen in Bernie’s politics is he and his team feel they’re holier than the rest. In the end, they will play dirty because they think that they pass a purity test that Republicans and most Democrats don’t pass,” said Shumlin. “What you’re seeing now is, in the end, even if he considers you a friend, like Elizabeth Warren, Bernie will come first. That’s the pattern we’ve seen over the years in Vermont, and that’s what we are seeing now nationally.”

Nothing surprises me anymore so i wouldnt put it past him that he's on cahoots w the russians or this fool-in-chief.

to run their own candidate and not endorse him or allow him to run as a Democrat. They have first hand experience at his fair weather membership. It is all about what they can do for him as he changes party allegiance after their primary.

"Because we agreed on so much, Bernie couldn't make an argument against me in this area on policy, so he had to resort to innuendo and impugning my character."

That's what he does.

No corroboration is needed.

Thank you Gov. Shumlin.

But if Sanders wants his name to go down in history as a cry-baby spoiled-brat-loser, so be it.



On a positive note, Democrats are uniting like I haven't seen in a long time. Bernie will lose and so will Trump.

Listening to the lies because they know Biden. Many blame Sanders for Trump.

Not!

The problem with Joe Biden is that he would do a good job. However, as explained by Susan Sarandon, "Some people feel that Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately, if he gets in. Then things will really, you know, explode," Sarandon said, referring to the political "revolution" Sanders preaches about on the trail.

In other words, it is Joe Biden's skills and competency that Bernie Sanders find threatening, because as Sarandon explained, "If you think that it's pragmatic to shore up the status quo right now, then you're not in touch with the status quo," Sarandon said. "The status quo is not working ... I think it's dangerous to think that we can continue the way we are." So, in classic Marx fashion, it is better to inflict short term pain, in order to achieve long lasting reforms through revolution.

Of course, when has this ever been the case? Most single payers were developed in evolutionary fashion, rather than through turbulent revolution unless you want to follow the model of Castro, which even Bernie acknowledges is run as a dictatorship.

This is simply wrong.
Sarandon was not saying that Trump would bring about anything good, or accomplish anything similar to what Sanders wanted.

An analogy: Lenin said: Give me 100 totally dedicated men and I can overthrow any government in Europe. He wasn’t saying that 100 men could conquer a country with a large standing army. He meant that, by using guerrilla tactics and terror, he could force the state to become so reactionary and oppressive that its own citizens would eventually rise up and overthrow it.
That is what Sarandon was suggesting: that Trump would be so horrible that the inevitable reaction would be a replace him with a radical socialist alternative. Was her position wrong and dangerous? Yes, but it was not an endorsement in any way of Trump’s policies.
I agree with most of Sanders positions, and I love his enthusiasm and genuine dedication to the common man. But I do not think he is electable, and having him and his movement at the forefront of the Democratic Party will lead to more Republican success. But I don’t understand the rage and hate on DU against fellow progressives who are absolutely essential if we are to save this country from the riggt wing forces now attempting to destroy our society.

She was not comparing Trump to Bernie. In other words, if not Bernie, then it is better to have Trump because he will make things even worse in order to plant the seeds of revolution. So, to me, that is worse than Susan saying she thinks Trump's policies are good. To the contrary, she says Trump is preferable because he is so bad.

That is what I find most distressing about so many of Bernie's campaign surrogates. It is not that they support Bernie. Rather, its this idea that if Bernie does not win, they will do things to undermine the Democratic party and harm the people to help Trump such as pushing for third party candidates.

Why? Because a Trump as leader helps sharpen the contradictions as explained by Susan Sarandon. That is what I find objectionable. Bernie and his supporters opposing progressive reforms and competent leaders for fear that by improving the lives of people, the people might not feel the need for revolution. At that point, the so-called progressives, become as much a part of the problem as Trump in oppressing the people.

I don't really disagree with your position.
I just hope we can all agree that the constant rage and bashing of Sanders supporters is not good for our prospects in November, since we will need their enthusiasm and support to win up and down the ballot.
Biden has won the nomination. Let's quit treating the sincere Sanders supporters like the enemy.

I am not bashing. I am letting their words speak for themselves. The fact that even direct quotes are considered bashing itselfreminds me Trump who complains about how biased the media when the quote. To me, this just underscores why Bernie Sanders is not fit to be President. It is not about ideas. Heck, I voted for Warren in the California primaries.

Rather, it is the fact that Democrats have to somehow pervert free expression and not discuss facts in the interests of appeasing Bernie Sanders. This is offensive. We are Americans. We are Democrats. If speaking up for our ideals regarding immigration, health care, and supporting fellow Democrats is considered to be hostile by Bernie supporters, then that just underscores why Bernie Sanders is a destructive force to the working class that he purports to support. Rather than us not talking about the statements made by Bernie's surrogates, the better solution is that Bernie surrogates refrain from attacking the Democratic party or cheerleading for Donald Trump.

Does Sanders still have 14% in the DU poll?
Some folks here say a lot of them
were trolls who voted, posted a bit and then moved on
Not calling out current posters as trolls, but pretty certain some of your brethren were.

... stay in just in case something happens to Joe Biden. It is a divisive Russian friendly talking point designed to promote division to the very end. It also does not make sense, since BS is older then Biden and Bernie had a heart attack. Nonetheless, it is designed to motivate Bernie's supporters to once again cheer for some misfortune against the Democratic nominee:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=681009

and saved people from having to go to the polls, risking catching the virus.

Just my opinion.

It'll be interesting.

are pretty reasonable. I predict most of them will get behind Biden.

for the Democratic nominee in November.

“hit the road”. Not the way to build a winning coalition, when we will need every liberal and progressive vote to beat the billionaires, racists and Trump fanatics who want to solidify their stranglehold in our democracy.
Why the hate, everywhere in DU but typified by this thread, for a good man who has dedicated his life to fighting for social and economic justice?
Disagree with his election strategy, but please don’t insult his supporters.

the GE only allows I-Sanders and the Republican candidate on the ballot. He runs as a Democrat in the primary to cut out Democratic candidates, then switches and runs as an Independent alone against the Republican, no sanctioned Democrat on the ballot. This is done with the collusion of VT's Democratic Party "establishment," the only one I know of that Sanders doesn't insist is really mostly as corrupt as and no alternative to Republicans.

People can and have run against Sanders in the Democratic primary... And they lose. The party WANTS Sanders to run to avoid a mess in the general election.

enormous resources of the Independent incumbent and his donors, with the connivance of party leaders who assist Sanders to a degree he only dishonestly claimed the DNC helped HRC. Many VTers, strangely , feel the party should refuse to let I-Sanders run as a Democrat specifically to keep Democrats from having a liberal choice in the GE.

McConnell and all the other Republican senators also win their races using big money and power to smash all opposition in their states, except in their cases it's their own party doing the rigging for a candidate from their own party.

Btw, do you know what happens, in any precinct, town or state, when the Democratic Party is the only game in town for too long? It gets infiltrated by non-Democrats.

I really don't think you should assume the results of elections manipulated from beginning to end to cut Democrats out of the GE, by your own admission, really show what VTers want.

Money is not the big problem. Bernie had the highest approval rate in his state in the entire Senate. This would be like primarying a very popular incumbent Senator. Party identification. Is not the issue here.

Bernard Sanders

If I lived in that lovely state, I actually would have no particular problem sending an honest and ethical socialist to join our overwhelmingly liberal Democratic caucus, but that's not the alternative VTers have to voting for a Republican. What kind of person would promise to try to steal the Democratic nomination from the choice of Democratic voters, much less try? Today's Republicans ruthlessly depend on and support election theft, of course, but that's virtually unheard of among the liberal Democrats Sanders despises. And Sanders doesn't go on our record.

As for those ratings, probably not more than half, if that, of predominantly white rural VTers are liberal by nature and ideology, the rest conservative, most leaning moderate. And because of that overall moderate conservative culture, by far most VT conservatives don't approve of rabid Republicans and vote as conservative Democrats. And those figures suggest they approve of Sanders performance as much as some others, I'm assuming including of his hostility to the liberal Democratic Party. This is 2020 and they are conservatives, after all.

to be a victim of a rigged Democratic establishment when he is actually the one with that kind of rigged reelection strategy in Vermont.

have their real antagonisms and delusion-based resentments stoked. These days just saying "Democrat" mostly does the job.

78-year-old extremely slow learner but that it's natural to both him and the trumpsters he has always had to draw in order to not just disappear into obscurity. He knows what he's doing. It was always totally impossible for him to win by appealing to a majority of Democrats, AND Russia will only assist a spoiler. But just the former means he HAS to bring others of his sort in from outside.

...He and his surrogates are resorting to the same tricks whether he is inventing multiple heart attacks by Michael Bloomberg or saying that Beto is secretly on the take of oil companies or that Elizabeth Warren is secretly a candidate for the elite, Bernie repeatedly demonstrates that is unfit to be President.

without those who flock to these tactics. It's no accident that his current role developed in a time of serious national anxiety, and abetted by major disruptors. Good times flout wannabe populist leaders and their wannabe mobs the way sunshine vanquishes bacteria and vampires to dark cracks.