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Democratic Primaries

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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts) Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:06 PM Mar 2020

Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP

Sure Obama did but that is the exception not the rule.

Trump picked Pence who didn't run in the GOP primaries in 16.
Bush II picked Cheney.
Clinton picked Gore.
Bush I picked Quayle.
Carter picked Mondale.
Nixon picked Agnew.
Eisenhower picked Nixon.

Going back almost 70 years there only 3 cases of a nominee picking a former primary opponent as VP, Johnson in 60, Bush in 80 and Biden in 08. More than twice as many times, they picked someone who didn't run against them in the primaries.

Now Biden might but it I wouldn't advise anyone to expect it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP (Original Post) Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 OP
Correction. LisaM Mar 2020 #1
LOL :-) Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #8
Thank you.Bush should have known right then that there was going to be trouble. oldsoftie Mar 2020 #12
Dubya should've known Todd79 Mar 2020 #49
As Ann Richards said: MyOwnPeace Mar 2020 #87
I will never forget that burn. :-D n/t nolawarlock Mar 2020 #405
All bets are off. Do not agree. Biden will do what is best for the times and the people. Nt Ninga Mar 2020 #2
There didn't used to be women candidates LisaM Mar 2020 #5
Yep! Ninga Mar 2020 #7
Biden needs to do what will help him win Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #6
And thats ALL that matters at this point oldsoftie Mar 2020 #13
not a normal year handmade34 Mar 2020 #3
You forgot Bartlet/Hoynes. William769 Mar 2020 #4
I've been repeatedly attacked because ... left-of-center2012 Mar 2020 #9
Biden must choose a VP who will help him win Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #10
This is absolutely correct. Sloumeau Mar 2020 #11
Bill Clinton did, too StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #14
Gore didn't run in 92 Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #15
You're right. I was mistaken StarfishSaver Mar 2020 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author Tumbulu Mar 2020 #52
Gore was a former Presidential candidate though. He ran first in 1988. It was big news TeamPooka Mar 2020 #16
Yes he didn't run against Clinton Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #19
He needs a running mate who can help add a swing state. The electoral college is what matters. Skya Rhen Mar 2020 #17
Exactly nt Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #20
I don't want anyone who has made disparaging remarks about Joe LakeArenal Mar 2020 #116
So true - we don't need video clips of of such disparaging remarks running 24/7 during the GE. No Skya Rhen Mar 2020 #329
I think that could be a big plus for Klobuchar. lastlib Mar 2020 #363
It's an interesting observation bucolic_frolic Mar 2020 #18
You didn't mention quite a few Polybius Mar 2020 #21
Yes Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #25
Why not? Polybius Mar 2020 #35
Losers aren't as relevant Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #39
You have to mention them because your OP doesn't make exception Polybius Mar 2020 #43
Losers aren't relevant Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #47
It's your OP so that's your call, but it still means your subject line is in error. thesquanderer Mar 2020 #50
Big deal Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #55
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Mar 2020 #149
OK you have a point Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #157
I hear ya! H2O Man Mar 2020 #226
Then say so in your OP Polybius Mar 2020 #53
Please Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #56
It's an out an out lie Polybius Mar 2020 #274
I agree. He's moving the goal posts from his original post. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #58
classic goal post moving. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #57
No Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #59
Yes wyldwolf Mar 2020 #61
Please stop posting misinformation Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #63
Learn history wyldwolf Mar 2020 #66
Still irrelevant to the OP Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #68
Only in that I didn't stick to your "70 year" limit. And your later arguments were false wyldwolf Mar 2020 #70
Thanks again for proving my point Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #72
Anyone reading knows you're point hasn't been proven. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #73
Again Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #75
Again wyldwolf Mar 2020 #76
Then prove me wrong Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #81
I already have. Everyone read: wyldwolf Mar 2020 #84
Then prove me wrong Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #82
I already have wyldwolf Mar 2020 #85
No you haven't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #89
yes I have. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #91
25% is less then 75% Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #93
of course it is, but 25% isn't the exception to the rule wyldwolf Mar 2020 #95
OK Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #97
How can quoting your post be "playing semantic games?" wyldwolf Mar 2020 #100
Please Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #102
"75% is 3x more than 25%" but it isn't "the exception to the rule." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #103
More semantics games Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #108
You don't know the definition of "exception to the rule." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #110
Thanks again Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #113
quoting you isn't "semantic games." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #117
Yes it is Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #119
No it isn't. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #126
Yes it is Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #129
No it isn't. And happy to 'kick' for the entertainment of others. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #131
Great! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #133
It is great. And also entertaining. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #134
Good Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #136
It is good. Always good to disprove a goal post mover. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #141
I'm not the one moving goal posts here Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #143
Here are you goal post moves wyldwolf Mar 2020 #145
No I used a 70 year time frame Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #148
you've repeatedly denied you used a 70 year time frame. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #150
Yes I used a 70 year time frame Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #154
but you've repeatedly denied it. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #156
I never set a limit Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #160
you did in your OP wyldwolf Mar 2020 #162
Nope Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #167
yep wyldwolf Mar 2020 #172
Well? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #174
I've never said you used a word limit. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #175
Agreed I never used the word limit Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #182
why are you referring to a 'word limit' then? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #185
Are you now denying that you accused me of setting a limit? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #192
I am denying I said you used a word limit, yes. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #193
Yes you did Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #209
neither of your links say I said you set a 'word' limit wyldwolf Mar 2020 #211
Stop playing dishonest games Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #215
I'm not. Quoting you isn't being dishonest wyldwolf Mar 2020 #216
So then quote me Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #218
I already have. Multiple times. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #220
No you haven't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #223
I haven't said you've used the word limit. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #225
Yes you have Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #227
Give me a direct quote by me saying you used a 'word limit.' wyldwolf Mar 2020 #229
Right here Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #232
Right. Your OP set a 70 year limit, not a word limit. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #233
No it didn't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #235
yes it does, and please point out where I said anything about a word limit. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #238
It doesn't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #240
It does. And where have I mentioned any "word" limit? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #241
Please stop playing these games Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #244
Where have I said you set a word limit? Quote me. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #246
I never did Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #252
you keep saying you didn't use a 'word' limit. No one has said you did. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #254
Please Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #256
Please wyldwolf Mar 2020 #257
More games Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #259
You call them 'games.' I call them your direct quotes. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #261
They are games Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #263
directly quoting you isn't a game. It's fun, though. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #265
You're not directly quoting me Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #267
yes I am. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #269
No you are not Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #272
Directly quoting you isn't a silly game. It's fun, though. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #275
But you're not directly quoting me Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #291
yes I am wyldwolf Mar 2020 #293
Nope you are not Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #294
yep I am. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #296
No you're not. Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #300
Yes I am and yes I did. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #301
No you didn't. Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #303
Yes I did wyldwolf Mar 2020 #305
OK Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #309
ok wyldwolf Mar 2020 #312
I probably just wasted 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, but I'm ALSO Grown2Hate Mar 2020 #402
well catsudon Mar 2020 #22
This is not a normal year pinkstarburst Mar 2020 #23
True he might Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #28
This isn't a normal election season. Anything could happen. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2020 #26
That's what people said about a brokered convention too Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #38
With Bernie still in the mix, anything is possible. n/t zackymilly Mar 2020 #40
Yeah right Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #42
Reagan picked Bush. nt tblue37 Mar 2020 #27
Obama picked Biden. nt tblue37 Mar 2020 #29
I don't care what you advise, lol. I 100% expect it to be Harris. MrsCoffee Mar 2020 #30
And if it isn't? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #31
It's Harris because she is high profile on national stage, boosts AA turnout and is charismatic wishstar Mar 2020 #41
Can she help flip a swing state? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #48
Kerry picked Edwards in 2004. (nt) nsd Mar 2020 #32
took 32 replies to point that out. WOW. nt. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #33
I mentioned it in post 21 Polybius Mar 2020 #45
Kerry lost Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #36
And? Polybius Mar 2020 #44
And if I included losers Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #46
Well we have three winners and only one loser over the past 60 years or so Polybius Mar 2020 #51
3 out of 10 Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #54
Wrong Polybius Mar 2020 #273
Maybe/Maybe not Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #278
Sure Polybius Mar 2020 #282
Never said that it was a bad thing Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #289
Gotcha Polybius Mar 2020 #403
FDR choose primary opponent John Nance Garner wyldwolf Mar 2020 #34
So? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #37
Goal post moving aside... wyldwolf Mar 2020 #60
No moving any goal posts Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #62
Perhaps you don't know the definition of 'goal post moving.' wyldwolf Mar 2020 #64
Time frame is irrelevant Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #65
then why set it? And why later claim losing tickets don't count? Let's review: wyldwolf Mar 2020 #67
Thanks for proving my point! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #69
Anyone reading knows you're point hasn't been proven. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #71
OK then post actual facts that disprove it Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #74
Your OP is clearly false. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #77
OK Then prove it false Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #79
It also said nominees picking a rival is "the exception, not the rule." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #83
OK Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #88
you're spending a lot of time on something you're so clearly wrong about. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #90
Then prove me wrong Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #92
I already have, your goal post moving aside wyldwolf Mar 2020 #94
I haven't moved any goal posts Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #99
you've done it constantly wyldwolf Mar 2020 #101
Please Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #104
25% of the time isn't the "exception to the rule." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #105
Still playing silly semantics games Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #107
quoting you isn't "semantic games." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #111
Please Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #114
Please. 25% of the time isn't, to quote you "the exception to the rule." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #115
More semantics games Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #121
quoting you isn't "semantic games." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #122
Yes it is Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #124
No it isn't. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #127
Great points, although Jack Kemp was not a primary rival in 1996 Polybius Mar 2020 #404
I already have, your goal post moving aside wyldwolf Mar 2020 #78
Nice Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #80
You're goal post moving again. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #86
That's a silly gotcha point Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #96
It's a fact. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #98
No it's not Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #106
yes it is, you're goal post moving aside wyldwolf Mar 2020 #109
And where did I use the word limit? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #112
"word limit?" Who's mentioned "word limit." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #120
No as an example Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #123
Show me a link that says "primaries began in 1912." LOL wyldwolf Mar 2020 #125
Here you go Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #128
I'll quote your link wyldwolf Mar 2020 #130
In 1910, Oregon became the first state to establish a presidential preference primary Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #135
sure, but that wasn't 1912. Nor was Florida's in 1901 wyldwolf Mar 2020 #140
There was no Presidential election in 1910 or 1901 Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #146
So? There were primaries. Is your link lying? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #147
OK then please post evidence of Presidential primaries prior to 1912 Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #153
I did, using YOUR link. The link YOU gave. Should I quote again? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #155
Enacted? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #159
So your link is lying? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #163
Never said it was Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #165
you're disputing your own link wyldwolf Mar 2020 #166
Not at all Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #168
yes you are wyldwolf Mar 2020 #170
Nope Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #173
You've lost faith in your link wyldwolf Mar 2020 #176
Not at all Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #181
apparently so. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #183
Nope Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #189
yep wyldwolf Mar 2020 #191
No Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #196
yes wyldwolf Mar 2020 #198
No Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #203
Yes wyldwolf Mar 2020 #205
No Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #206
It was your link, not mine. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #208
And the link never says that primaries were held prior to 1912 Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #210
yes it does. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #212
Show where it does Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #213
I already have. Multiple times. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #214
No you haven't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #217
yes I have. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #219
No you haven't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #221
yes I have wyldwolf Mar 2020 #222
Claim that you have over and over Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #224
Claim that i haven't over and over wyldwolf Mar 2020 #228
No the links make it true Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #230
Exactly. Your link makes what I said true. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #231
No it doesn't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #234
Yes it does. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #236
OK then point out where it does Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #237
I already have. Multiple times. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #239
No you haven't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #242
yes I have multiple times. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #243
Where? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #245
Your link. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #248
Link doesn't say that Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #249
yes it does. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #251
It doesn't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #253
It does. And I've quoted it several times. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #255
And it never says any primaries were held prior to 1912 Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #258
yes it does. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #260
No it doesn't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #262
yes it is. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #264
Nope Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #266
yep wyldwolf Mar 2020 #268
Then show where it does Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #270
I already have. Multiple times. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #271
Then show me again Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #279
No, I already have multiple times. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #280
No you haven't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #288
yes I have wyldwolf Mar 2020 #298
Weak comeback nt Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #315
yet stronger than all of yours. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #317
Truth is strength Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #322
which is why all your non-points have been weak. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #323
I've only made one point Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #331
one initial point, then constant goal posts moves to bolster it. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #332
No you're the one moving goal post Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #341
You started goal post moving the moment you said losing tickets didn't count. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #343
I don't think they are relevant Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #357
which only weakens your point wyldwolf Mar 2020 #358
Not a point but an observation Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #381
A point wyldwolf Mar 2020 #383
Call it what you like if it makes you happy Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #386
Thanks! Most would agree wyldwolf Mar 2020 #387
I would hope they agree with facts Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #390
Give some and we'll see. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #391
OK Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #393
You're still dodging the ridiculous claim wyldwolf Mar 2020 #396
This post counts winners and losers Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #397
Your op doesn't. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #399
But where is it factually wrong. Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #401
Save your breath, their argument is specious and kind of silly Dream Girl Mar 2020 #118
You're free to disprove my premise Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #132
That was't your premise wyldwolf Mar 2020 #138
Yes it was Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #142
it wasn't the title of your OP wyldwolf Mar 2020 #144
Yes "Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP." Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #151
But you just said it WASN'T the title of your OP. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #152
Yes that is the title of my OP Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #158
In post #142 you said the title was something else. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #161
No I didn't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #164
yes you did. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #169
No that is dishonest Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #171
quoting you is dishonest? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #177
Yes when you selectively edit it Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #178
A quote isn't an edit. I directly quoted you. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #180
You edited it Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #186
where? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #190
Here Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #195
No edits there. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #197
Please Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #201
Please wyldwolf Mar 2020 #204
Each election is unique treestar Mar 2020 #137
Very true Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #139
Man. This thread started dumb and just got dumber. Squinch Mar 2020 #179
You're telling me! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #184
I lulzed. Squinch Mar 2020 #187
He called your OP dumb, and you agreed, LOL. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #194
He called the thread dumb Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #200
the OP started the thread, and is the dumbest part wyldwolf Mar 2020 #207
Just a simple observation of history Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #281
tainted by your goal post moving and caveats to lend more credence to a flawed premise. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #283
What is flawed? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #290
So a candidate who picks a primary rival but loses didn't really pick a primary rival? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #295
Never claimed that Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #297
yes you did. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #299
Here we go again Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #302
Here we go again wyldwolf Mar 2020 #304
Not denying anything Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #307
Sure you are. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #310
Nope Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #313
yep wyldwolf Mar 2020 #316
Nope Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #319
yep! And you're welcome for the kick. Happy to do it. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #321
Nope and thanks again! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #324
Yep! And you're welcome. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #325
Nope Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #336
yep! And you're welcome. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #339
No Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #342
Yes wyldwolf Mar 2020 #344
Nope and thanks! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #346
yes and your welcome! wyldwolf Mar 2020 #348
No Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #352
Yes wyldwolf Mar 2020 #354
Nope! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #361
Yep! wyldwolf Mar 2020 #362
False! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #366
True! wyldwolf Mar 2020 #369
Nope and thanks again! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #371
Yep! And you're welcome again! wyldwolf Mar 2020 #373
No, no, no!!! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #375
Yes, yes, yes! wyldwolf Mar 2020 #377
No! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #378
Yes! wyldwolf Mar 2020 #379
Nada! Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #384
This message was self-deleted by its author Polybius Mar 2020 #276
yup, a dumb op by someone who can't stand to be proven wrong wyldwolf Mar 2020 #188
Where have I been proven wrong? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #199
through out the thread, which is why you've moved goal posts like these: wyldwolf Mar 2020 #202
Never moved any goal posts Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #247
Sure you did. Like "losing tickets don't count." wyldwolf Mar 2020 #250
And I still don't think they do Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #284
That's hysterical! wyldwolf Mar 2020 #285
And most nominees don't Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #287
But many do, including those who lose the GE. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #306
Yes many do Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #328
And 25% is no where near being an exception to the rule as you've contended. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #330
Still only 25% Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #333
and still nowhere near being an exception to the rule as you've contended. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #334
But it is still most Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #338
but certainly not an exception to the rule as you've contended. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #340
Still 3 times as more Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #345
but not an exception to the rule as you contended. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #347
But still most 3 times as more. Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #351
but certainly not an exception to the rule as you've contended. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #353
No that was based on responding to your post Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #364
I went back to the late 1700s wyldwolf Mar 2020 #367
What primaries were held in the late 1700s? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #388
Here Polybius Mar 2020 #277
I wasn't counting losing tickets Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #286
You moved a goal post wyldwolf Mar 2020 #308
Not at all Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #311
A complete goal post move wyldwolf Mar 2020 #314
Well before it was 30% Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #318
Why 1912? You originally said "going back 70 years." Goal post move. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #320
Last 10 elections Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #326
Why last 10 elections? Why not every election - including losing tickets? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #327
10 seemed like a nice round number Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #335
So is 12. So is 20. But 10 seemed like a number that would bolster your point best. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #337
I don't care how many you want to look at Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #349
because you know the more elections looked at, the weaker your point gets. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #350
Not a point Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #355
It was your point wyldwolf Mar 2020 #356
Really? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #359
Yes, really. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #360
So what time frame do you want to set? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #365
How about the very first election? wyldwolf Mar 2020 #370
OK Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #374
Already posted the first two wyldwolf Mar 2020 #376
Then post the rest Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #380
It's your point to prove. You're op. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #382
I've proved it here: Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #385
That wasn't proof. And you've been proved wrong. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #389
How wasn't it proof? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #392
We must have missed that in your op. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #394
Please show me where what I posted was in error? Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #395
Please show us that in your op. wyldwolf Mar 2020 #398
Well you are free to show where my OP is factually incorrect Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #400
I am comfortable with whoever Joe selects Gothmog Mar 2020 #292
Kennedy picked LBJ, Reagan picked George H.W. Bush hlthe2b Mar 2020 #368
Very true Dem4Life1102 Mar 2020 #372
 

LisaM

(28,609 posts)
1. Correction.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:08 PM
Mar 2020

Cheney picked Cheney.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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oldsoftie

(13,538 posts)
12. Thank you.Bush should have known right then that there was going to be trouble.
Reply to LisaM (Reply #1)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:33 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Todd79

(166 posts)
49. Dubya should've known
Reply to oldsoftie (Reply #12)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 07:02 PM
Mar 2020

But that fella wasn’t all that bright.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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MyOwnPeace

(17,275 posts)
87. As Ann Richards said:
Reply to Todd79 (Reply #49)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:18 AM
Mar 2020

“Poor George [Bush], he can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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nolawarlock

(1,729 posts)
405. I will never forget that burn. :-D n/t
Reply to MyOwnPeace (Reply #87)
Sun Mar 22, 2020, 12:09 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Ninga

(8,612 posts)
2. All bets are off. Do not agree. Biden will do what is best for the times and the people. Nt
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:08 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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LisaM

(28,609 posts)
5. There didn't used to be women candidates
Reply to Ninga (Reply #2)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:10 PM
Mar 2020

In the primary either. But it's been a great way for us to get to know these talented women.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
6. Biden needs to do what will help him win
Reply to Ninga (Reply #2)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:11 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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oldsoftie

(13,538 posts)
13. And thats ALL that matters at this point
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #6)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:34 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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handmade34

(22,925 posts)
3. not a normal year
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:09 PM
Mar 2020

there are no precedents for anything anymore...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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William769

(55,830 posts)
4. You forgot Bartlet/Hoynes.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:09 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
9. I've been repeatedly attacked because ...
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:11 PM
Mar 2020

I've posted Biden must choose a VP who is best qualified,
regardless of litmus tests
of race, gender, color, or having been a 2020 candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
10. Biden must choose a VP who will help him win
Reply to left-of-center2012 (Reply #9)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:12 PM
Mar 2020

otherwise nothing else matters.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Sloumeau

(2,657 posts)
11. This is absolutely correct.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #10)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:20 PM
Mar 2020

There are many women who can do the job, but none will do the job if Biden doesn't win. Electability is paramount.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
24. You're right. I was mistaken
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #15)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 02:02 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #14)

Tumbulu This message was self-deleted by its author.

 

TeamPooka

(25,277 posts)
16. Gore was a former Presidential candidate though. He ran first in 1988. It was big news
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:41 PM
Mar 2020

when he did not run in 92.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
19. Yes he didn't run against Clinton
Reply to TeamPooka (Reply #16)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 01:24 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Skya Rhen

(2,724 posts)
17. He needs a running mate who can help add a swing state. The electoral college is what matters.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 12:45 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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LakeArenal

(29,813 posts)
116. I don't want anyone who has made disparaging remarks about Joe
Reply to Skya Rhen (Reply #17)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:29 AM
Mar 2020

That eliminates most primary candidates.

There are many heroes that didn’t run.

Abrams, Porter, Demmings and Rice toname a few.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Skya Rhen

(2,724 posts)
329. So true - we don't need video clips of of such disparaging remarks running 24/7 during the GE. No
Reply to LakeArenal (Reply #116)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:54 PM
Mar 2020

unnecessary distractions.

We need to win and there are numerous qualified women that can help attain that goal - ones that don't have a history of a contentious relationship with our nominee that can be used against the ticket.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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lastlib

(24,920 posts)
363. I think that could be a big plus for Klobuchar.
Reply to Skya Rhen (Reply #17)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:13 PM
Mar 2020

I think she could be very helpful in swinging Wisconsin and Michigan. Maybe even Ohio. All else being equal, flipping those three would put D's over the top.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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bucolic_frolic

(47,018 posts)
18. It's an interesting observation
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 01:18 PM
Mar 2020

If you pick a former opponent, you want them to bring something to the ticket. A state, a following, geographic balance (many other options there), cash. Those who didn't win fell short for some reason. Voters' rejection is important to consider. Bernie has a following but I can't see the two ideologies getting together. So find a spark in the rest of the bunch or go with a smart, experienced outside choice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
21. You didn't mention quite a few
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 01:50 PM
Mar 2020

Such as Romney, McCain, Kerry, Dole, Dukakis, Mondale, etc. Seems you only mentioned the winners for some reason.

Anyway, did Edwards run in 2004 when he was picked as VP?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
25. Yes
Reply to Polybius (Reply #21)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 02:11 PM
Mar 2020

Why mention the losers?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
35. Why not?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #25)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:20 PM
Mar 2020

They still got their Party's nomination for President that year.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
39. Losers aren't as relevant
Reply to Polybius (Reply #35)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:46 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
43. You have to mention them because your OP doesn't make exception
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #39)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 04:49 PM
Mar 2020

You said "Going back almost 70 years there only 3 cases of a nominee picking a former primary opponent as VP."

That's simply not true. There are four. John Kerry picked John Edwards in 2004. If you don't want to include him, you need to modify your op to "Going back almost 70 years there only 3 cases of a nominee that went on to win the GE picking a former primary opponent as VP."

Or just say 4. 2004 counts whether it was won or now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
47. Losers aren't relevant
Reply to Polybius (Reply #43)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 05:02 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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thesquanderer

(12,347 posts)
50. It's your OP so that's your call, but it still means your subject line is in error.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #47)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 07:10 PM
Mar 2020

"Most nominees who go on to win..." would be an accurate way to state it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
55. Big deal
Reply to thesquanderer (Reply #50)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 09:13 PM
Mar 2020

It’s just a silly gotcha point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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H2O Man

(75,498 posts)
149. Respectfully disagree.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #55)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:15 AM
Mar 2020

It is fine to say that you were focusing exclusively on the winning tickets, and that your wording was incorrect. It's not a big deal to say that you should have been clearer by including the word "winning." We all make such minor errors.

It is a larger error to say that the losing ticket doesn't count. First, you deny yourself the option of noting that picking a former primary candidate as VP may be a move that lessens the chances of victory, which would be consistent with the overall message of your OP. Second, being stubborn isn't a good quality when one makes a minor error -- life in an extended Irish-American family has provided me with solid evidence of that! (grin) Not to suggest that I am not, from time to time, prone to that same unattractive behavior. And third, projecting negative attributes to those who have correctly pointed out that the OP lacks one important word is a poor tactic to use when one is attempting to communicate a point you believe is important. They are not using a "just silly gotcha point." It's an important point that, if you simply noted you were focused exclusively on winning, would add to your position. And that would be so much more positive an approach.

I hope that you do not take this the wrong way. I'm not attacking you. I am suggesting that you have the option of expanding your original point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
157. OK you have a point
Reply to H2O Man (Reply #149)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:29 AM
Mar 2020

But many here often discredit things because the candidate or ticket cited didn't win.

If you want a fuller example that does back to 1912, go here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=680032

But forgive me if I am being a bit defensive. I posted what is a factual observation and have been repeatedly attacked for it. Yet no one has been able to disprove my main point and are playing silly gotcha games. We are supposed to be the party that respects facts but some seem to have a problem with them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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H2O Man

(75,498 posts)
226. I hear ya!
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #157)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:33 PM
Mar 2020

I generally do not engage in many angry discussions on DU:GD-P. Lots of petty nonsense. But I am interested in politics and history, and respect Malcolm X's saying that we should study the history of politics to understand current events. I talk to people -- outside of DU and the internet -- who have common interests.

Among the conversations we've had lately is who might Joe Biden pick for VP. A few of them think Elizabeth Warren would be best. In the past, geographic issues had a great influence on who might or might not be picked. That may hold true this year, as I suspect, or not be a factor, as they think.

At this point, I would think everyone should be focused on another issue that is starting to gell, with Trump calling himself a "war president," and Jared working with elite corporate leaders to plan for the future economic issues per the crisis. These two factors are what are the foundation for the Ike-era "continuity of government" plans, updated by Bush the Elder and Ollie North under Reagan, and actually instituted by Cheney on 9/11 (Robert Bydr; Losing America: Confronting a Reckless and Arrogant President; WW Norton & Co; 2004; page 79). This could allow Trump to "postpone" elections during a national crisis, if we are not prepared for mail-in ballots.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
53. Then say so in your OP
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #47)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 07:26 PM
Mar 2020

You said "Going back almost 70 years there only 3 cases of a nominee picking a former primary opponent as VP, Johnson in 60, Bush in 80 and Biden in 08."

By knowingly putting it like, it's misinformation and lies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
56. Please
Reply to Polybius (Reply #53)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 09:14 PM
Mar 2020

It’s a silly gotcha point. Irrelevant.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
274. It's an out an out lie
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #56)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:00 PM
Mar 2020

You said "Going back almost 70 years there only 3 cases of a nominee picking a former primary opponent as VP, Johnson in 60, Bush in 80 and Biden in 08."

That is 100% wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
58. I agree. He's moving the goal posts from his original post.
Reply to Polybius (Reply #53)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:46 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
57. classic goal post moving.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #39)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:46 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
59. No
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #57)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:48 AM
Mar 2020

My OP contained indisputable facts that some didn't like so they resorted to a silly gotcha point that disproves nothing that I posted.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
61. Yes
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #59)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:53 AM
Mar 2020

Your OP set a 70 year time limit when we've had nominating contests since the late 1700s.

Later in the thread you moved the goal post so only winning tickets matter. LOL.

Based on the info already in this thread, I went back a bit further than 70 years.


2008 (D): Obama / Biden
2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner
1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)

1800s? Just didn't feel like doing the research.

Regardless, it happens quite a bit more than your op suggests.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
63. Please stop posting misinformation
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #61)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:03 AM
Mar 2020

There haven't been nominating contests since the late 1700s. There weren't even political parties back then.

So please stop playing your silly gotcha games. You're being argumentative just for the sake of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
66. Learn history
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #63)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:10 AM
Mar 2020
There haven't been nominating contests since the late 1700s. There weren't even political parties back then.

au contraire. Political parties formed in 1796. Every president was, at one point, nominated for that office. They weren't appointed. Basic American Civics.

Learn history.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
68. Still irrelevant to the OP
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #66)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:16 AM
Mar 2020

And the first nominating conventions weren't until 1832, not the late 1700s. Also, only white male landowners were allowed to vote then and African Americans were counted as 3/5s a person. All of which is irrelevant to the OP.

But thanks for proving my point that you're being argumentative just for the sake of it. You are invited to now post some actually facts that directly dispute my OP that Nominees typically don't pick a former primary opponent for their VP. (BTW they didn't start having primaries until 1916.)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
70. Only in that I didn't stick to your "70 year" limit. And your later arguments were false
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #68)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:20 AM
Mar 2020

Learn history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
72. Thanks again for proving my point
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #70)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:21 AM
Mar 2020

Either post facts that directly disprove my OP or admit that you can't. Everything else is just a childish diversion to score silly debating points.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
73. Anyone reading knows you're point hasn't been proven.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #72)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:22 AM
Mar 2020


You've shown an amazing lack of historical knowledge on primary races and nominating contests.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
75. Again
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #73)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:26 AM
Mar 2020

Prove me wrong. Please post all the examples of nominees choosing a former primary opponent as their VP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
76. Again
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #75)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:28 AM
Mar 2020

Anyone reading knows you're point hasn't been proven. You've shown an amazing lack of historical knowledge on primary races and nominating contests.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
84. I already have. Everyone read:
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #81)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:53 AM
Mar 2020

You said picking a rival is the exception, not the rule. Yet, since 1912, it has happened 14 times. More often when count re-election campaigns. Then the number rises.. So it's happened less than it hasn't happened, but it certainly isn't the exception to the rule.

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
2008 (D): Obama / Biden
2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
82. Then prove me wrong
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #76)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:50 AM
Mar 2020

and post all the examples of nominees choosing a former primary opponent as their VP. Otherwise you are just proving that you're being argumentative just for the sake of it.

But that's for kicking my OP. Much appreciated.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
85. I already have
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #82)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:54 AM
Mar 2020

Since 1912, it has happened 14 times. More often is we count re-election campaigns. Then the number rises. So it's happened less than it hasn't happened, but it certainly isn't the exception to the rule.

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
2008 (D): Obama / Biden
2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
89. No you haven't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #85)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:53 AM
Mar 2020

See post : https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=680032

And please don't try to move the goal posts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
93. 25% is less then 75%
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #91)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:57 AM
Mar 2020

Unless you're now denying reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
95. of course it is, but 25% isn't the exception to the rule
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #93)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:57 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
97. OK
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #95)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:02 AM
Mar 2020

Now we are playing semantics games. Pathetic.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
100. How can quoting your post be "playing semantic games?"
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #97)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:03 AM
Mar 2020

Shouldn't we take the words of your post seriously?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
102. Please
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #100)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:05 AM
Mar 2020

75% is 3x more than 25%. If you want to continue to play semantics but I'll go with facts which I've posted and you've failed to dispute.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
103. "75% is 3x more than 25%" but it isn't "the exception to the rule."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #102)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:07 AM
Mar 2020

"75% is 3x more than 25%" but it isn't "the exception to the rule."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
108. More semantics games
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #103)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:13 AM
Mar 2020

But thanks for the kick.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
110. You don't know the definition of "exception to the rule."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #108)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:17 AM
Mar 2020
But thanks for the kick.


I'll gladly keep pointing out your folly.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
113. Thanks again
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #110)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:24 AM
Mar 2020

But still playing silly semantics games.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
117. quoting you isn't "semantic games."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #113)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:29 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
129. Yes it is
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #126)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:50 AM
Mar 2020

And thanks for the kick!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
131. No it isn't. And happy to 'kick' for the entertainment of others.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #129)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:52 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
134. It is great. And also entertaining.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #133)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:54 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
136. Good
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #134)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:55 AM
Mar 2020

Of course of you want to try to post some facts that is always welcome.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
141. It is good. Always good to disprove a goal post mover.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #136)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:01 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
143. I'm not the one moving goal posts here
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #141)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:05 AM
Mar 2020

Nor engaging in silly gotcha games.

You're free to post any facts that disprove that most nominees don't chose a former primary rival as their VP. Can you?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
145. Here are you goal post moves
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #143)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:07 AM
Mar 2020

you set a 70 year time frame.

You then said only winners counted.

You then claimed 25% of the time is "an exception to the rule."

You then claimed there were no political parties in the late 1700s.

You then claimed the first primary was in 1912.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
148. No I used a 70 year time frame
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #145)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:14 AM
Mar 2020

And everything else while factually correct is either a diversion to the main point or a silly gotcha game that you made an issue out of.

If you want to post any facts that disprove my OP and show that nominees have selected former primary opponents as their VP, you are free to do so.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
150. you've repeatedly denied you used a 70 year time frame.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #148)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:16 AM
Mar 2020

Now you admit it? (not that we needed you to admit it. It's in the OP for all to see.)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
154. Yes I used a 70 year time frame
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #150)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:21 AM
Mar 2020

But never used that word limit or that anyone couldn't look back further than that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
156. but you've repeatedly denied it.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #154)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:26 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
160. I never set a limit
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #156)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:37 AM
Mar 2020

That was your word not mine.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
167. Nope
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #162)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:46 AM
Mar 2020

Never set any limit.

Please feel free to go back and highlight where I used the word limit: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=678990

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
174. Well?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #172)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:57 AM
Mar 2020

Please show where I used the word limit in my OP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
175. I've never said you used a word limit.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #174)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:00 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
182. Agreed I never used the word limit
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #175)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:07 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
185. why are you referring to a 'word limit' then?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #182)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:08 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
192. Are you now denying that you accused me of setting a limit?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #185)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:11 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
193. I am denying I said you used a word limit, yes.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #192)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:12 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
211. neither of your links say I said you set a 'word' limit
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #209)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:22 PM
Mar 2020

I've said you've used a year limit - 70 years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
215. Stop playing dishonest games
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #211)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:25 PM
Mar 2020

Several time you accused me of setting a 70 year time limit in my OP. I never did and you know it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
216. I'm not. Quoting you isn't being dishonest
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #215)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:27 PM
Mar 2020
Several time you accused me of setting a 70 year time limit in my OP.

I have and you did.

But where have I said you used word limits?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
218. So then quote me
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #216)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:29 PM
Mar 2020

Show in my OP where I set a 70 year time limit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
220. I already have. Multiple times.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #218)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:29 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
223. No you haven't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #220)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:31 PM
Mar 2020

My OP is here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287678990

Point out where I used the word limit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
225. I haven't said you've used the word limit.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #223)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:32 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
227. Yes you have
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #225)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:33 PM
Mar 2020

Stop denying reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
229. Give me a direct quote by me saying you used a 'word limit.'
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #227)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:34 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
233. Right. Your OP set a 70 year limit, not a word limit.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #232)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:38 PM
Mar 2020

Frankly, no one cares how many words you've used.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
235. No it didn't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #233)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:40 PM
Mar 2020

Again please point out where I set a time limit: https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287678990

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
238. yes it does, and please point out where I said anything about a word limit.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #235)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:41 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
240. It doesn't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #238)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:42 PM
Mar 2020

and stop trying to divert. Show exactly where I set a time limit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
241. It does. And where have I mentioned any "word" limit?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #240)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:43 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
244. Please stop playing these games
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #241)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:44 PM
Mar 2020

Are you unable to engage in an honest discussion?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
246. Where have I said you set a word limit? Quote me.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #244)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:45 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
252. I never did
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #246)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:47 PM
Mar 2020

So stop the nonsense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
254. you keep saying you didn't use a 'word' limit. No one has said you did.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #252)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:49 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
256. Please
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #254)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:50 PM
Mar 2020

Just stop playing these silly, childish games.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
257. Please
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #256)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:51 PM
Mar 2020

Show us where I've said you've used a 'word' limit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
261. You call them 'games.' I call them your direct quotes.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #259)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:53 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
263. They are games
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #261)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:54 PM
Mar 2020

and you know it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
265. directly quoting you isn't a game. It's fun, though.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #263)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:55 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
267. You're not directly quoting me
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #265)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:56 PM
Mar 2020

stop pretending that you are.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
272. No you are not
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #269)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:58 PM
Mar 2020

You're just playing silly games and being argumentative for the sake of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
275. Directly quoting you isn't a silly game. It's fun, though.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #272)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:00 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
291. But you're not directly quoting me
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #275)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:29 PM
Mar 2020

Please stop pretending that you are.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
300. No you're not.
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #296)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:37 PM
Mar 2020

And you've failed to disprove my main point that most nominees have not don't pick a former primary opponent as there VP. The real question is why some are so threatened by historical facts?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
301. Yes I am and yes I did.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #300)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:38 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Grown2Hate

(2,162 posts)
402. I probably just wasted 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, but I'm ALSO
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #312)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 03:51 PM
Mar 2020

cracking up. This was a classic Abbott and Costello routine, beginning to end. Thank you, guys!

"So I pick up the ball, and throw it to first... who catches it?" "Naturally!"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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catsudon

(873 posts)
22. well
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 01:53 PM
Mar 2020

that would mean Hillary Clinton is in play

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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pinkstarburst

(1,550 posts)
23. This is not a normal year
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 01:56 PM
Mar 2020

This is not a normal year. The country is being ravaged by covid-19. Biden will be looking for a candidate who is extremely well qualified and will provide stability and confidence from the moment they are named.

Biden is 78 years old (not a normal candidate.)

And he will be choosing a female VP (which hasn't happened too many times.)

I would be very surprised if it wasn't one of the very talented 3 women who ran against him up until the end in the primaries and have already established a presence on the national stage. (Warren, Harris, Klobuchar)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
28. True he might
Reply to pinkstarburst (Reply #23)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 02:13 PM
Mar 2020

But I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t. All three come from solid blue states and don’t help flipping any swing states. Warren would help with progressives but won’t energize the African American vote. Harris would do that but her history as a prosecutor might not help with progressives.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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The Velveteen Ocelot

(120,903 posts)
26. This isn't a normal election season. Anything could happen.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 02:12 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
38. That's what people said about a brokered convention too
Reply to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #26)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:38 PM
Mar 2020

and that’s not going to happen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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zackymilly

(2,375 posts)
40. With Bernie still in the mix, anything is possible. n/t
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #38)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:49 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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tblue37

(66,035 posts)
27. Reagan picked Bush. nt
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 02:12 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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tblue37

(66,035 posts)
29. Obama picked Biden. nt
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 02:14 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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MrsCoffee

(5,822 posts)
30. I don't care what you advise, lol. I 100% expect it to be Harris.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 02:19 PM
Mar 2020

Biden himself was a former primary opponent chosen as VP.

So yeah, whatever.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wishstar

(5,486 posts)
41. It's Harris because she is high profile on national stage, boosts AA turnout and is charismatic
Reply to MrsCoffee (Reply #30)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 04:03 PM
Mar 2020

Joe doesn't need a southerner, midwesterner or a more progressive VP than Harris. She has least negatives of any of the others I can think of.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
48. Can she help flip a swing state?
Reply to wishstar (Reply #41)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 05:05 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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nsd

(2,480 posts)
32. Kerry picked Edwards in 2004. (nt)
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:02 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
33. took 32 replies to point that out. WOW. nt.
Reply to nsd (Reply #32)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:06 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
45. I mentioned it in post 21
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #33)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 04:54 PM
Mar 2020

The op then said "Kerry lost" which makes zero sense. He never said only winners in his op.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
44. And?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #36)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 04:52 PM
Mar 2020

Your op did not say only winners.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
46. And if I included losers
Reply to Polybius (Reply #44)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 05:01 PM
Mar 2020

half the people here would discredit the argument because they were included.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
51. Well we have three winners and only one loser over the past 60 years or so
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #46)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 07:24 PM
Mar 2020

So listing Kerry actually helps your argument. Without him, they are 3-0 when picking a primary opponent. So Biden would be in great company.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
54. 3 out of 10
Reply to Polybius (Reply #51)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 09:12 PM
Mar 2020

That’s the point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
273. Wrong
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #54)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:59 PM
Mar 2020

4 people picked their running mate from a primary opponent. 3 of them won the election. So that's a 75% winning record in the GE.

You're helping the cause for picking a primary opponent, yet you are advising against it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
278. Maybe/Maybe not
Reply to Polybius (Reply #273)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:05 PM
Mar 2020

So the 7 who didn't pick a primary opponent as VP don't count?

And I'm not advising against anything. I'm just making an observation based on history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
282. Sure
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #278)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:07 PM
Mar 2020

But you were mostly talking about those who did, like it was a bad thing. Their success rate is impressive (75%).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
289. Never said that it was a bad thing
Reply to Polybius (Reply #282)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:22 PM
Mar 2020

Just pointing out some facts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
403. Gotcha
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #289)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:41 PM
Mar 2020

Well, I do think there's a better chance of it happening this year but who knows. I thought Obama would have picked Hillary in 2008.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
34. FDR choose primary opponent John Nance Garner
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:19 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
37. So?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #34)
Fri Mar 20, 2020, 03:37 PM
Mar 2020

Still doesn’t change that more times nominees don’t choose primary opponents.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
60. Goal post moving aside...
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #37)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:51 AM
Mar 2020

You may be right, but I don't think you're that sure of it. And I'm not sure why you chose 70 years as a benchmark when we've had nominating contests since the late 1700s. Usually people set a time period to bolster their argument.

Goal post moving aside, (for example, claiming losing tickets don't matter and only going back 70 years), there have many instances of it.

John Adams finished second only to George Washington in electoral votes. Adams became VP.
Similar situation with Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr.

Based on the info already in this thread, I went back a big further than 70 years.


2008 (D): Obama / Biden
2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner
1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)

1800s? Just didn't feel like doing the research.

Regardless, it happens quite a bit more than your op suggests.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
62. No moving any goal posts
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #60)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:00 AM
Mar 2020

My op contained indisputable facts. And the time period just another silly gotcha point because there are no facts that dispute my point, that Nominees usually don't pick a former opponent as there running mate. It is more the exception than the norm.

Unless you can post any facts that prove that wrong? If not you're just being argumentative for the sake of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
64. Perhaps you don't know the definition of 'goal post moving.'
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #62)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:04 AM
Mar 2020

Goal post moving is changing the terms of the argument after the argument is underway.

The biggest example in your exchanges here is saying losing tickets don't matter. That aside, setting a 70 year time limit was an attempt to bolster your argument.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
65. Time frame is irrelevant
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #64)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:06 AM
Mar 2020

Just another silly gotcha point because there are no facts that dispute the OP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
67. then why set it? And why later claim losing tickets don't count? Let's review:
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #65)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:13 AM
Mar 2020

John Adams finished second only to George Washington in electoral votes. Adams became VP.
Similar situation with Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr.

Based on the info already in this thread, I went back a big further than 70 years.


2008 (D): Obama / Biden
2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner
1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)

1800s? Just didn't feel like doing the research.

You later said "there haven't been nominating contests since the late 1700s. There weren't even political parties back then." That's false.

Political parties formed in 1796. Every president was, at one point, nominated for that office. They weren't appointed. Basic American Civics.

Learn history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
69. Thanks for proving my point!
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #67)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:18 AM
Mar 2020

You're being argumentative just for the sake of it since you don't have any real facts that disprove my OP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
71. Anyone reading knows you're point hasn't been proven.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #69)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:21 AM
Mar 2020

You've shown an amazing lack of historical knowledge on primary races and nominating contests.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
74. OK then post actual facts that disprove it
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #71)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:25 AM
Mar 2020

So far you haven't. Show me the overwhelming number of times that a nominee has chosen a former primary opponent as VP. Please go right ahead.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
77. Your OP is clearly false.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #74)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:32 AM
Mar 2020

Why you've chosen to double-down on that is curious.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
79. OK Then prove it false
Reply to TwilightZone (Reply #77)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:34 AM
Mar 2020

My OP states that nominees typically don't pick a former primary opponent as their VP. Please post all the number of times that a nominee has done so that prove me wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
83. It also said nominees picking a rival is "the exception, not the rule."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #79)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:51 AM
Mar 2020

Yet, since 1912, it has happened 14 times. More often when count re-election campaigns. Then the number rises to 20 times. So it's happened less than it hasn't happened, but it certainly isn't the exception to the rule.

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
2008 (D): Obama / Biden
2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
88. OK
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #83)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:52 AM
Mar 2020
2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
Biden didn't run in any primaries in 12 and their GOP opponent Romey chose Ryan who didn't run in any primaries

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
True but McCain choose Palin who didn't run in any primaries.

2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
OK but you leave out 2000. Neither Lieberman or Cheney ran in the primaries that year.

1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
OK but again you leave out both 1992 and 1988. Gore didn't run in 92 and neither Bentsen or Qualye ran in 88

1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
There were no GOP primaries that year and Ferraro did run in the Dem primaries.

1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
Yes but you omitted 76. Neither Mondale or Dole ran in the primaries.

1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
True and neither of McGovern's running mates ran in the primaries.

1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
Agnew didn't run in any primaries and neither did Muskie.

And in 1964 Goldwater's running mate William Miller didn't run in any primaries. And Johnson was opposed by George Wallace in the Dem primaries not by Humphrey.

1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
Actually Johnson didn't run in any primaries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Candidates) but made a play for the nomination at the convention and Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge didn't run in primaries either.

1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
OK but in 1952 Stevenson nor his running mate John Sparkman ran in any primaries. They were choosen at the convention. And Nixon didn't run in any primaries either.

1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
Yes and Truman's primary opponent was William Julian not his running mate Alben Barkley.

1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
OK and FDR's primary opponents were Joseph Ferguson and Harry Byrd not his VP Truman.

In 1940 neither FDR or Wendell Willkie picked a primary opponent at VP.

1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
Yes and FDR's primary opponent Henry Breckinridge wasn't his running mate.

1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
Yes and Hoover had 4 primary opponents that year, none of whom were his running mate.

1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
Curtis didn't run in any GOP primary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries) nor did Smith's VP Joe Robinson.

And since you skipped 1924, neither Coolidge's or Davis' running mates ran in any primaries, in fact neither Davis he was chosen at the convention. In 1920 Cox chose FDR as his running mate, who didn't run in a primary that year. And Harding chose Coolidge who also didn't run in a primary that year.

1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
True

1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)
Marshall didn't run in any primary in 1912 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) neither did Taft's running mate Butler.

Since there were no primaries before 1912 there is no point to go on. But let's not forget our latest election in 2016 where neither VP candidate Pence or Kaine ran in their parties primaries.

So in the 27 presidential elections since the beginning of the primary system, with a total of 52 Republican or Democratic nominees, there were a total of 13 times that a nominee choose a former primary opponent as their running mate. 13 is 25% of the time. So 75% of the time they didn't. Now what would you call the norm 75% or 25%? I think my point has been proved. Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
90. you're spending a lot of time on something you're so clearly wrong about.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #88)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:53 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
92. Then prove me wrong
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #90)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:56 AM
Mar 2020

You are free to dispute anything that I posted. But as my previous post proved nominees have only picked primary opponents as their VP 25% of the time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
94. I already have, your goal post moving aside
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #92)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:57 AM
Mar 2020

And everyone reading your thread agrees.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
99. I haven't moved any goal posts
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #94)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:03 AM
Mar 2020

But you seem to.

And all you've proved it that you're being argumentative for the sake of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
101. you've done it constantly
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #99)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:05 AM
Mar 2020

Why did you say losing ticket didn't count?

Why are trying to redefine what "exception to the rule" means?

Why limit your claim to 70 years?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
104. Please
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #101)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:09 AM
Mar 2020

Those were all silly gotcha points made by other people. I've shown with facts that only 25% of the time nominees chose a former primary opponent as VP. Dispute me with facts and stop playing games.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
105. 25% of the time isn't the "exception to the rule."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #104)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:11 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
107. Still playing silly semantics games
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #105)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:12 AM
Mar 2020

Pathetic.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
111. quoting you isn't "semantic games."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #107)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:18 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
114. Please
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #111)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:26 AM
Mar 2020

I've proven that nominees have only chosen a former primary rival 25% of the time. You can try to disprove that with real facts or continue to play silly gotcha and semantics games.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
115. Please. 25% of the time isn't, to quote you "the exception to the rule."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #114)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:28 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
121. More semantics games
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #115)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:32 AM
Mar 2020

Since you can't disprove any facts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
122. quoting you isn't "semantic games."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #121)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:34 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
124. Yes it is
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #122)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:36 AM
Mar 2020

especially since I've proven my point with real facts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
404. Great points, although Jack Kemp was not a primary rival in 1996
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #83)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:50 PM
Mar 2020

He only ran for President in 1988.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
78. I already have, your goal post moving aside
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #74)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:33 AM
Mar 2020

Picking rivals for Veep was pretty common until the 12th amendment. And the practice continued off and on since.

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner
1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)

1800s? Just didn't feel like doing the research.

You later moved the goal post to say losing tickets don't count.

And you later said political parties didn't exist in the late 1700s. EVERY president has been nominated for the office.

Your grasp of history is an epic fail.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
80. Nice
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #78)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:47 AM
Mar 2020

And in every case cited above their opponent didn't choose a primary opponent. So for the 14 examples you provided there are 14 examples were they didn't. And only about half of them actually won.

You can't go back further because they didn't have primaries before 1912 so the 1800s can't be used as an example. Nor can the 1700s because they didn't have conventions until 1831.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
86. You're goal post moving again.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #80)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:57 AM
Mar 2020

Actually winning wasn't the premise of your OP.

And the times I listed disprove one of the premises of your OP. It happens frequently enough not to be any exception to the rule.

A woman Veep pick would be an exception to the rule. A rival isn't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
96. That's a silly gotcha point
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #86)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:00 AM
Mar 2020

And I never said it never happens just that it happens less than the nominee choosing someone other than a former primary opponent. All you showed was 14 examples out of 27 elections and 52 nominees, and some of your examples weren't true.

You've disproved nothing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
98. It's a fact.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #96)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:02 AM
Mar 2020

Goal post moving aside, you're 'exception to the rule' is a joke, your "70 year limit" is designed to buttress your point, saying losing tickets don't count is ridiculous, and claiming political parties didn't exist in the late 1700s makes you look like amateur.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
106. No it's not
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #98)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:11 AM
Mar 2020

I never moved any goal posts and I never set a 70 year limit. Since primaries began in 1912 nominees have only chosen a primary rival as VP 25% of the time. Your free to disprove that with facts if you can but stop the silly games and the name calling.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
109. yes it is, you're goal post moving aside
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #106)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:15 AM
Mar 2020
I never set a 70 year limit.


Your OP said "Going back almost 70 years there only 3 cases of a nominee picking a former primary opponent as VP."

Since primaries began in 1912


Primaries didn't begin in 1912. Learn history.

nominees have only chosen a primary rival as VP 25% of the time.


25% of the time isn't an "exception to the rule."



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
112. And where did I use the word limit?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #109)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:21 AM
Mar 2020

Did I ever say that example from earlier that 70 years couldn't be used? That is not setting a limit.

And Presidential Primaries didn't begin until 1912. That is history.

The rest is just semantics games and you're just being argumentative for the sake of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
120. "word limit?" Who's mentioned "word limit."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #112)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:32 AM
Mar 2020

Your op attempted, quite poorly, to make the case that nominees seldom pick rivals. Clear false. You used 70 years as a benchmark.

YOU said primaries began in in 1912, not I.

Quoting you isn't semantics.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
123. No as an example
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #120)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:36 AM
Mar 2020

And primaries did begin in 1912. And I've proven that nominees only have pick former primary rivals only 25% of the time.

You've proven that you're being argumentative just for the sake of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
125. Show me a link that says "primaries began in 1912." LOL
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #123)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:38 AM
Mar 2020

25% of the time isn't an "exception to the rule."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
130. I'll quote your link
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #128)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:51 AM
Mar 2020

"Florida enacted the first presidential primary in 1901. The Wisconsin direct open primary of 1905 was the first to eliminate the caucus and mandate direct selection of national convention delegates. In 1910, Oregon became the first state to establish a presidential preference primary."

Next?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
135. In 1910, Oregon became the first state to establish a presidential preference primary
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #130)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:55 AM
Mar 2020

And what was the next presidential election?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
140. sure, but that wasn't 1912. Nor was Florida's in 1901
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #135)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:01 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
146. There was no Presidential election in 1910 or 1901
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #140)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:10 AM
Mar 2020

Here are the pages for the parties presidential primaries in 1912. You can click to go to the next election all the way up to the present day. But you can't go back any further than 1912.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

Can you show that there were primaries in 1908 or 1904 or 1900? And did all the nominees in those years choose primary rivals at their VPs?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
147. So? There were primaries. Is your link lying?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #146)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:12 AM
Mar 2020

When you link said, "Florida enacted the first presidential primary in 1901. The Wisconsin direct open primary of 1905 was the first to eliminate the caucus and mandate direct selection of national convention delegates. In 1910, Oregon became the first state to establish a presidential preference primary.." was it lying?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
153. OK then please post evidence of Presidential primaries prior to 1912
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #147)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:19 AM
Mar 2020

as well as links that show the nominees of the 2 parties chose a primary opponent as their VP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
155. I did, using YOUR link. The link YOU gave. Should I quote again?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #153)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:23 AM
Mar 2020
Florida enacted the first presidential primary in 1901.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
159. Enacted?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #155)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:36 AM
Mar 2020

When was it held? Who ran in it? Who won?

And again here are the links again on the 1912 primaries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

You can't go back any further.

So please show that there were primaries before 1912 and that the nominees chose their primary rival as VP. That is the main point. Can you dispute it or not?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
163. So your link is lying?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #159)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:42 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
165. Never said it was
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #163)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:45 AM
Mar 2020

And if you are claiming that there were primaries held before 1912 please post links that prove that they were.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
166. you're disputing your own link
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #165)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:46 AM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
168. Not at all
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #166)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:48 AM
Mar 2020

But enacted doesn't mean one was held. If you have proof that primaries were held before 1912 please post links to prove your assertion.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
173. Nope
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #170)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:56 AM
Mar 2020

Enacted and held are two different things.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
176. You've lost faith in your link
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #173)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:00 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
181. Not at all
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #176)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:07 PM
Mar 2020

Things are enacted all the time but it doesn't mean they take effect immediately. The ACA was enacted in 2010 but several parts didn't go into effect for years.

Please show evidence that primaries were held prior to 1912 and that the nominee pick their primary rival as their VP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
206. No
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #205)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:19 PM
Mar 2020

So can you prove that presidential primaries were held prior to 1912 or not?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
208. It was your link, not mine.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #206)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:20 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
210. And the link never says that primaries were held prior to 1912
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #208)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:22 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
214. I already have. Multiple times.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #213)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:23 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
217. No you haven't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #214)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:27 PM
Mar 2020

The link says that Florida enacted a primary in 1901 but not that one was held in the next presidential election.

Once again, please show that presidential primaries were held prior to 1912.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
221. No you haven't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #219)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:30 PM
Mar 2020

Please post a link that proves that Presidential primaries were held prior to 1912.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
224. Claim that you have over and over
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #222)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:32 PM
Mar 2020

Doesn't make it true. Either post a link that proves your assertion or admit that you can't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
228. Claim that i haven't over and over
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #224)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:33 PM
Mar 2020

Doesn't make it true.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
230. No the links make it true
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #228)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:34 PM
Mar 2020

which you repeatedly refuse to provide.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
231. Exactly. Your link makes what I said true.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #230)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:35 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
234. No it doesn't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #231)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:39 PM
Mar 2020

The link never states that primaries were held prior to 1912.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
237. OK then point out where it does
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #236)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:41 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
239. I already have. Multiple times.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #237)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:41 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
242. No you haven't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #239)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:43 PM
Mar 2020

So please stop claiming that you have.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
243. yes I have multiple times.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #242)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:44 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
249. Link doesn't say that
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #248)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:46 PM
Mar 2020

Show where it does.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
253. It doesn't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #251)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:48 PM
Mar 2020

and you know it or you'd be quoting where it does.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
255. It does. And I've quoted it several times.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #253)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:50 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
258. And it never says any primaries were held prior to 1912
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #255)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:52 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
262. No it doesn't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #260)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:53 PM
Mar 2020

Show where it does. And don't say that you have because you haven't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
270. Then show where it does
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #268)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:58 PM
Mar 2020

Please I'm waiting.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
271. I already have. Multiple times.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #270)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:58 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
279. Then show me again
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #271)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:05 PM
Mar 2020

if you can.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
280. No, I already have multiple times.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #279)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:07 PM
Mar 2020

Doing it again would only lead to you asking for it yet again and again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
288. No you haven't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #280)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:20 PM
Mar 2020

Stop claiming that you did.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
298. yes I have
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #288)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:35 PM
Mar 2020

Stop claiming I haven't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
317. yet stronger than all of yours.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #315)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:46 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
322. Truth is strength
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #317)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:50 PM
Mar 2020

It is only the dishonest who cannot see that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
323. which is why all your non-points have been weak.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #322)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:50 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
331. I've only made one point
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #323)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:55 PM
Mar 2020

That most nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as their VP. Just an observation of history. It is a shame some are so threatened by the truth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
332. one initial point, then constant goal posts moves to bolster it.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #331)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:56 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
341. No you're the one moving goal post
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #332)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:00 PM
Mar 2020

because you can't disprove my point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
343. You started goal post moving the moment you said losing tickets didn't count.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #341)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:01 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
357. I don't think they are relevant
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #343)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:09 PM
Mar 2020

not moving any goal posts but if someone wants to look at losing tickets too they are welcome to. And as shown here https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=680032 doesn't change my observation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
358. which only weakens your point
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #357)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:11 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
381. Not a point but an observation
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #358)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:33 PM
Mar 2020

and as I already have said, anyone is free to look at the losing tickets.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
386. Call it what you like if it makes you happy
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #383)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:36 PM
Mar 2020

Either way my observation is accurate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
387. Thanks! Most would agree
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #386)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:39 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
390. I would hope they agree with facts
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #387)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:40 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
391. Give some and we'll see.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #390)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:42 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
393. OK
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #391)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:44 PM
Mar 2020
2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
Biden didn't run in any primaries in 12 and their GOP opponent Romey chose Ryan who didn't run in any primaries

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
True but McCain choose Palin who didn't run in any primaries.

2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
OK but you leave out 2000. Neither Lieberman or Cheney ran in the primaries that year.

1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
OK but again you leave out both 1992 and 1988. Gore didn't run in 92 and neither Bentsen or Qualye ran in 88

1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
There were no GOP primaries that year and Ferraro did run in the Dem primaries.

1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
Yes but you omitted 76. Neither Mondale or Dole ran in the primaries.

1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
True and neither of McGovern's running mates ran in the primaries.

1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
Agnew didn't run in any primaries and neither did Muskie.

And in 1964 Goldwater's running mate William Miller didn't run in any primaries. And Johnson was opposed by George Wallace in the Dem primaries not by Humphrey.

1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
Actually Johnson didn't run in any primaries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Candidates) but made a play for the nomination at the convention and Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge didn't run in primaries either.

1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
OK but in 1952 Stevenson nor his running mate John Sparkman ran in any primaries. They were choosen at the convention. And Nixon didn't run in any primaries either.

1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
Yes and Truman's primary opponent was William Julian not his running mate Alben Barkley.

1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
OK and FDR's primary opponents were Joseph Ferguson and Harry Byrd not his VP Truman.

In 1940 neither FDR or Wendell Willkie picked a primary opponent at VP.

1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
Yes and FDR's primary opponent Henry Breckinridge wasn't his running mate.

1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
Yes and Hoover had 4 primary opponents that year, none of whom were his running mate.

1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
Curtis didn't run in any GOP primary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries) nor did Smith's VP Joe Robinson.

And since you skipped 1924, neither Coolidge's or Davis' running mates ran in any primaries, in fact neither Davis he was chosen at the convention. In 1920 Cox chose FDR as his running mate, who didn't run in a primary that year. And Harding chose Coolidge who also didn't run in a primary that year.

1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
True

1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)
Marshall didn't run in any primary in 1912 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) neither did Taft's running mate Butler.

Since there were no primaries before 1912 there is no point to go on. But let's not forget our latest election in 2016 where neither VP candidate Pence or Kaine ran in their parties primaries.

So in the 27 presidential elections since the beginning of the primary system, with a total of 52 Republican or Democratic nominees, there were a total of 13 times that a nominee choose a former primary opponent as their running mate. 13 is 25% of the time. So 75% of the time they didn't. Now what would you call the norm 75% or 25%? I think my point has been proved. Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
396. You're still dodging the ridiculous claim
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #393)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:47 PM
Mar 2020

Losers don’t count.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
397. This post counts winners and losers
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #396)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:48 PM
Mar 2020

Please show where I am in error:

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
Biden didn't run in any primaries in 12 and their GOP opponent Romey chose Ryan who didn't run in any primaries

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
True but McCain choose Palin who didn't run in any primaries.

2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
OK but you leave out 2000. Neither Lieberman or Cheney ran in the primaries that year.

1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
OK but again you leave out both 1992 and 1988. Gore didn't run in 92 and neither Bentsen or Qualye ran in 88

1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
There were no GOP primaries that year and Ferraro did run in the Dem primaries.

1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
Yes but you omitted 76. Neither Mondale or Dole ran in the primaries.

1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
True and neither of McGovern's running mates ran in the primaries.

1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
Agnew didn't run in any primaries and neither did Muskie.

And in 1964 Goldwater's running mate William Miller didn't run in any primaries. And Johnson was opposed by George Wallace in the Dem primaries not by Humphrey.

1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
Actually Johnson didn't run in any primaries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Candidates) but made a play for the nomination at the convention and Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge didn't run in primaries either.

1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
OK but in 1952 Stevenson nor his running mate John Sparkman ran in any primaries. They were choosen at the convention. And Nixon didn't run in any primaries either.

1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
Yes and Truman's primary opponent was William Julian not his running mate Alben Barkley.

1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
OK and FDR's primary opponents were Joseph Ferguson and Harry Byrd not his VP Truman.

In 1940 neither FDR or Wendell Willkie picked a primary opponent at VP.

1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
Yes and FDR's primary opponent Henry Breckinridge wasn't his running mate.

1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
Yes and Hoover had 4 primary opponents that year, none of whom were his running mate.

1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
Curtis didn't run in any GOP primary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries) nor did Smith's VP Joe Robinson.

And since you skipped 1924, neither Coolidge's or Davis' running mates ran in any primaries, in fact neither Davis he was chosen at the convention. In 1920 Cox chose FDR as his running mate, who didn't run in a primary that year. And Harding chose Coolidge who also didn't run in a primary that year.

1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
True

1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)
Marshall didn't run in any primary in 1912 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) neither did Taft's running mate Butler.

Since there were no primaries before 1912 there is no point to go on. But let's not forget our latest election in 2016 where neither VP candidate Pence or Kaine ran in their parties primaries.

So in the 27 presidential elections since the beginning of the primary system, with a total of 52 Republican or Democratic nominees, there were a total of 13 times that a nominee choose a former primary opponent as their running mate. 13 is 25% of the time. So 75% of the time they didn't. Now what would you call the norm 75% or 25%? I think my point has been proved. Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
401. But where is it factually wrong.
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #399)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:55 PM
Mar 2020

Please point them out.

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
Biden didn't run in any primaries in 12 and their GOP opponent Romey chose Ryan who didn't run in any primaries

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
True but McCain choose Palin who didn't run in any primaries.

2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
OK but you leave out 2000. Neither Lieberman or Cheney ran in the primaries that year.

1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
OK but again you leave out both 1992 and 1988. Gore didn't run in 92 and neither Bentsen or Qualye ran in 88

1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
There were no GOP primaries that year and Ferraro did run in the Dem primaries.

1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
Yes but you omitted 76. Neither Mondale or Dole ran in the primaries.

1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
True and neither of McGovern's running mates ran in the primaries.

1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
Agnew didn't run in any primaries and neither did Muskie.

And in 1964 Goldwater's running mate William Miller didn't run in any primaries. And Johnson was opposed by George Wallace in the Dem primaries not by Humphrey.

1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
Actually Johnson didn't run in any primaries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Candidates) but made a play for the nomination at the convention and Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge didn't run in primaries either.

1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
OK but in 1952 Stevenson nor his running mate John Sparkman ran in any primaries. They were choosen at the convention. And Nixon didn't run in any primaries either.

1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
Yes and Truman's primary opponent was William Julian not his running mate Alben Barkley.

1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
OK and FDR's primary opponents were Joseph Ferguson and Harry Byrd not his VP Truman.

In 1940 neither FDR or Wendell Willkie picked a primary opponent at VP.

1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
Yes and FDR's primary opponent Henry Breckinridge wasn't his running mate.

1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
Yes and Hoover had 4 primary opponents that year, none of whom were his running mate.

1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
Curtis didn't run in any GOP primary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries) nor did Smith's VP Joe Robinson.

And since you skipped 1924, neither Coolidge's or Davis' running mates ran in any primaries, in fact neither Davis he was chosen at the convention. In 1920 Cox chose FDR as his running mate, who didn't run in a primary that year. And Harding chose Coolidge who also didn't run in a primary that year.

1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
True

1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)
Marshall didn't run in any primary in 1912 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) neither did Taft's running mate Butler.

Since there were no primaries before 1912 there is no point to go on. But let's not forget our latest election in 2016 where neither VP candidate Pence or Kaine ran in their parties primaries.

So in the 27 presidential elections since the beginning of the primary system, with a total of 52 Republican or Democratic nominees, there were a total of 13 times that a nominee choose a former primary opponent as their running mate. 13 is 25% of the time. So 75% of the time they didn't. Now what would you call the norm 75% or 25%? I think my point has been proved. Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dream Girl

(5,111 posts)
118. Save your breath, their argument is specious and kind of silly
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #98)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:30 AM
Mar 2020

Like saying “every black candidate in the past 20 years who chose a white running running mate won the presidency”. They’re making up shit and their argument is pointless.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
132. You're free to disprove my premise
Reply to Dream Girl (Reply #118)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:52 AM
Mar 2020

Can you show that Presidential nominees have chosen a primary rival more than not?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
138. That was't your premise
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #132)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:58 AM
Mar 2020
Can you show that Presidential nominees have chosen a primary rival more than not?


That wasn't your premise. Before your goal post moving, your premise was "Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP." But you set a 70 year time frame.

You then said only winners counted.

You then claimed 25% of the time is "an exception to the rule."

You then claimed there were no political parties in the late 1700s.

You then claimed the first primary was in 1912.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
142. Yes it was
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #138)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:03 AM
Mar 2020

it was the title of my OP. And I never set any time limit. Everything else (while factually correct) is a diversion from the main point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
144. it wasn't the title of your OP
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #142)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:06 AM
Mar 2020

The title of you OP is "Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP." It isn't "Presidential nominees have chosen a primary rival more than not."

Your OP stated a 70 year window to make your non-point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
151. Yes "Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP."
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #144)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:17 AM
Mar 2020

Since 75% is 3x as big as 25% the word most applies.

And I used a 70 year time frame but never once said that anyone couldn't look further back.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
152. But you just said it WASN'T the title of your OP.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #151)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:19 AM
Mar 2020


25% isn't the exception to the rule.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
161. In post #142 you said the title was something else.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #158)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:40 AM
Mar 2020

ah, yes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
169. yes you did.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #164)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:50 AM
Mar 2020

Post 132, you said: Can you show that Presidential nominees have chosen a primary rival more than not?

I replied, "That was't your premise."

Post 142, you said: Yes it was it was the title of my OP.

So what was the title of your OP? "Presidential nominees have chosen a primary rival more than not?"




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
171. No that is dishonest
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #169)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:55 AM
Mar 2020

You posted

your premise was "Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP."


And that is what I was agreeing to.

So can you prove my premise wrong or not?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
177. quoting you is dishonest?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #171)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:01 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
178. Yes when you selectively edit it
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #177)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:03 PM
Mar 2020

to play some silly gotcha game.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
180. A quote isn't an edit. I directly quoted you.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #178)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:05 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
186. You edited it
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #180)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:09 PM
Mar 2020

Please don't deny it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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treestar

(82,383 posts)
137. Each election is unique
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:57 AM
Mar 2020

Always under different circumstances. As we've seen, that you have to win Iowa to win the nomination is broken.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
139. Very true
Reply to treestar (Reply #137)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:59 AM
Mar 2020

Things change over time. While Biden might chose a former primary rival it is not a lock as many seem to think it is. I was just pointing that out.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Squinch

(52,770 posts)
179. Man. This thread started dumb and just got dumber.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:05 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
194. He called your OP dumb, and you agreed, LOL.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #184)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:13 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
200. He called the thread dumb
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #194)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:17 PM
Mar 2020

and he's right.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
207. the OP started the thread, and is the dumbest part
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #200)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:19 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
281. Just a simple observation of history
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #207)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:07 PM
Mar 2020

What is dumb it that some are so threatened by it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
283. tainted by your goal post moving and caveats to lend more credence to a flawed premise.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #281)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:08 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
290. What is flawed?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #283)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:23 PM
Mar 2020

Just pointing out some historical facts. No need to be so threatened by it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
295. So a candidate who picks a primary rival but loses didn't really pick a primary rival?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #290)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:34 PM
Mar 2020

By losing, he changed the past and never actually picked a primary rival?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
297. Never claimed that
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #295)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:35 PM
Mar 2020

Please don't pretend that I did.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
302. Here we go again
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #299)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:38 PM
Mar 2020

I don't mind a spirited debate if it is based on facts. But childish gotcha games are tiresome.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
304. Here we go again
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #302)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:39 PM
Mar 2020

I don't mind a spirited debate if it is based on facts. But when you deny the things you've said, it gets entertaining.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
307. Not denying anything
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #304)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:41 PM
Mar 2020

But I refuse to let words be dishonestly put in my mouth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
319. Nope
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #316)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:48 PM
Mar 2020

And thanks for the kick!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
321. yep! And you're welcome for the kick. Happy to do it.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #319)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:50 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
324. Nope and thanks again!
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #321)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:51 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
325. Yep! And you're welcome.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #324)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:52 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
339. yep! And you're welcome.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #336)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:59 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
344. Yes
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #342)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:01 PM
Mar 2020

You're welcome again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
348. yes and your welcome!
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #346)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:03 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
371. Nope and thanks again!
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #369)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:19 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
373. Yep! And you're welcome again!
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #371)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:20 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
375. No, no, no!!!
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #373)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:23 PM
Mar 2020

This is fun. It's like having a performing monkey.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
377. Yes, yes, yes!
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #375)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:26 PM
Mar 2020

This is fun. It’s like having a performing monkey.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #200)

Polybius This message was self-deleted by its author.

 

wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
188. yup, a dumb op by someone who can't stand to be proven wrong
Reply to Squinch (Reply #179)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:10 PM
Mar 2020

And me just having fun watching him twist in the wind. Purely for the entertainment value.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
199. Where have I been proven wrong?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #188)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:16 PM
Mar 2020

I showed that only 25% of nominees have chosen a former Primary rival as their VP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
202. through out the thread, which is why you've moved goal posts like these:
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #199)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:18 PM
Mar 2020

you set a 70 year time frame.

You then said only winners counted.

You then claimed 25% of the time is "an exception to the rule."

You then claimed there were no political parties in the late 1700s.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
247. Never moved any goal posts
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #202)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:46 PM
Mar 2020

I let you do that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
250. Sure you did. Like "losing tickets don't count."
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #247)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:46 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
284. And I still don't think they do
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #250)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:12 PM
Mar 2020

not a lie just my opinion. You can count them if you like but as I've already shown it is still only 25% of the time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
285. That's hysterical!
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #284)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:15 PM
Mar 2020

You went from "Most Nominees don't pick a former primary opponent as VP" going back 70 years in your OP, to saying losing tickets don't count even though some picked a former primary opponent as VP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
287. And most nominees don't
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #285)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:19 PM
Mar 2020

I used winning tickets as an example. But counting all tickets shows the same things. Just an observation of history. Why are some so threatened by it?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
306. But many do, including those who lose the GE.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #287)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:40 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
328. Yes many do
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #306)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:54 PM
Mar 2020

About 25%.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
330. And 25% is no where near being an exception to the rule as you've contended.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #328)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:54 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
333. Still only 25%
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #330)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:57 PM
Mar 2020

Which is least not most.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
334. and still nowhere near being an exception to the rule as you've contended.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #333)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:58 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
338. But it is still most
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #334)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:59 PM
Mar 2020

3 times as more.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
340. but certainly not an exception to the rule as you've contended.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #338)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:00 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
345. Still 3 times as more
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #340)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:02 PM
Mar 2020

which is most.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
347. but not an exception to the rule as you contended.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #345)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:03 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
351. But still most 3 times as more.
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #347)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:04 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
353. but certainly not an exception to the rule as you've contended.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #351)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:05 PM
Mar 2020

25% is a goal post move.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
364. No that was based on responding to your post
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #353)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:13 PM
Mar 2020

in which you went back to 1912. So are you claiming that you moved the goal post?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
367. I went back to the late 1700s
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #364)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:17 PM
Mar 2020

Remember? The part where you claimed political parties didn’t exist then?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
388. What primaries were held in the late 1700s?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #367)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:39 PM
Mar 2020

And who won them?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Polybius

(17,868 posts)
277. Here
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #199)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:04 PM
Mar 2020

You said "Going back almost 70 years there only 3 cases of a nominee picking a former primary opponent as VP, Johnson in 60, Bush in 80 and Biden in 08."

Kerry/Edwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
286. I wasn't counting losing tickets
Reply to Polybius (Reply #277)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:16 PM
Mar 2020

My bad for not being more specific. And to be fair I didn't count losing tickets where the nominee didn't choose a VP who wasn't a primary opponent either. But if you want to count nominees from both parties regardless of success you can go here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=680032

As shown, only about 25% of the time have nominees chosen a former primary opponent as their VP. Just an observation of history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
308. You moved a goal post
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #286)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:41 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
311. Not at all
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #308)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:44 PM
Mar 2020

I counted the last 10 elections and only winning tickets. If all are counted as done here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=680032 my observation is still correct.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
314. A complete goal post move
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #311)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:45 PM
Mar 2020

You only added the the caveat about losing tickets when it was pointed out your numbers were wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
318. Well before it was 30%
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #314)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:48 PM
Mar 2020

counting just the winning tickets in the last 10 elections. Counting both winners and losers since 1912 it is not 25%. So my original observation is still correct. Just some historical facts. Nothing to be threatened by.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
320. Why 1912? You originally said "going back 70 years." Goal post move.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #318)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:49 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
326. Last 10 elections
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #320)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:53 PM
Mar 2020

is 70 years but I don't mind going back further. Not a goal post move at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
327. Why last 10 elections? Why not every election - including losing tickets?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #326)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:54 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
335. 10 seemed like a nice round number
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #327)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:58 PM
Mar 2020

But don't mind going back further to look at both winners and losers. Then it is only 25%.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
337. So is 12. So is 20. But 10 seemed like a number that would bolster your point best.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #335)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:59 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
349. I don't care how many you want to look at
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #337)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:03 PM
Mar 2020

looking back more seems to prove my observation more.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
350. because you know the more elections looked at, the weaker your point gets.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #349)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:04 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
355. Not a point
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #350)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:06 PM
Mar 2020

but an observation. Nothing to be threatened by. But anyone is welcome to look back further.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
356. It was your point
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #355)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:07 PM
Mar 2020

The further back we looked, the weaker your point was.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
359. Really?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #356)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:11 PM
Mar 2020

How so? It went from 30% to 25% going from 70 years to 108 years. Is there a specific time frame you want to set?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
365. So what time frame do you want to set?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #360)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:16 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
370. How about the very first election?
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #365)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:18 PM
Mar 2020

Including losing tickets?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
374. OK
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #370)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:22 PM
Mar 2020

Feel free to post them plus the results of the primaries that show a primary rival was selected as VP by the nominee.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
376. Already posted the first two
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #374)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:24 PM
Mar 2020

But since you’re trying to make a point, feel free to post more.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
380. Then post the rest
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #376)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:31 PM
Mar 2020

I guess the next would be the election of 1796. What primaries did Adams and Jefferson run in against each other that year?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
382. It's your point to prove. You're op.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #380)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:33 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
389. That wasn't proof. And you've been proved wrong.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #385)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:40 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
392. How wasn't it proof?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #389)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:44 PM
Mar 2020

And how was it proved wrong?

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
Biden didn't run in any primaries in 12 and their GOP opponent Romey chose Ryan who didn't run in any primaries

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
True but McCain choose Palin who didn't run in any primaries.

2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
OK but you leave out 2000. Neither Lieberman or Cheney ran in the primaries that year.

1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
OK but again you leave out both 1992 and 1988. Gore didn't run in 92 and neither Bentsen or Qualye ran in 88

1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
There were no GOP primaries that year and Ferraro did run in the Dem primaries.

1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
Yes but you omitted 76. Neither Mondale or Dole ran in the primaries.

1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
True and neither of McGovern's running mates ran in the primaries.

1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
Agnew didn't run in any primaries and neither did Muskie.

And in 1964 Goldwater's running mate William Miller didn't run in any primaries. And Johnson was opposed by George Wallace in the Dem primaries not by Humphrey.

1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
Actually Johnson didn't run in any primaries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Candidates) but made a play for the nomination at the convention and Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge didn't run in primaries either.

1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
OK but in 1952 Stevenson nor his running mate John Sparkman ran in any primaries. They were choosen at the convention. And Nixon didn't run in any primaries either.

1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
Yes and Truman's primary opponent was William Julian not his running mate Alben Barkley.

1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
OK and FDR's primary opponents were Joseph Ferguson and Harry Byrd not his VP Truman.

In 1940 neither FDR or Wendell Willkie picked a primary opponent at VP.

1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
Yes and FDR's primary opponent Henry Breckinridge wasn't his running mate.

1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
Yes and Hoover had 4 primary opponents that year, none of whom were his running mate.

1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
Curtis didn't run in any GOP primary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries) nor did Smith's VP Joe Robinson.

And since you skipped 1924, neither Coolidge's or Davis' running mates ran in any primaries, in fact neither Davis he was chosen at the convention. In 1920 Cox chose FDR as his running mate, who didn't run in a primary that year. And Harding chose Coolidge who also didn't run in a primary that year.

1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
True

1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)
Marshall didn't run in any primary in 1912 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) neither did Taft's running mate Butler.

Since there were no primaries before 1912 there is no point to go on. But let's not forget our latest election in 2016 where neither VP candidate Pence or Kaine ran in their parties primaries.

So in the 27 presidential elections since the beginning of the primary system, with a total of 52 Republican or Democratic nominees, there were a total of 13 times that a nominee choose a former primary opponent as their running mate. 13 is 25% of the time. So 75% of the time they didn't. Now what would you call the norm 75% or 25%? I think my point has been proved. Thanks.


Please point out the specific places that I was in error.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
394. We must have missed that in your op.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #392)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:45 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
395. Please show me where what I posted was in error?
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #394)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:46 PM
Mar 2020

Just point the errors out.

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
Biden didn't run in any primaries in 12 and their GOP opponent Romey chose Ryan who didn't run in any primaries

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
True but McCain choose Palin who didn't run in any primaries.

2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
OK but you leave out 2000. Neither Lieberman or Cheney ran in the primaries that year.

1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
OK but again you leave out both 1992 and 1988. Gore didn't run in 92 and neither Bentsen or Qualye ran in 88

1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
There were no GOP primaries that year and Ferraro did run in the Dem primaries.

1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
Yes but you omitted 76. Neither Mondale or Dole ran in the primaries.

1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
True and neither of McGovern's running mates ran in the primaries.

1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
Agnew didn't run in any primaries and neither did Muskie.

And in 1964 Goldwater's running mate William Miller didn't run in any primaries. And Johnson was opposed by George Wallace in the Dem primaries not by Humphrey.

1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
Actually Johnson didn't run in any primaries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Candidates) but made a play for the nomination at the convention and Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge didn't run in primaries either.

1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
OK but in 1952 Stevenson nor his running mate John Sparkman ran in any primaries. They were choosen at the convention. And Nixon didn't run in any primaries either.

1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
Yes and Truman's primary opponent was William Julian not his running mate Alben Barkley.

1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
OK and FDR's primary opponents were Joseph Ferguson and Harry Byrd not his VP Truman.

In 1940 neither FDR or Wendell Willkie picked a primary opponent at VP.

1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
Yes and FDR's primary opponent Henry Breckinridge wasn't his running mate.

1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
Yes and Hoover had 4 primary opponents that year, none of whom were his running mate.

1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
Curtis didn't run in any GOP primary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries) nor did Smith's VP Joe Robinson.

And since you skipped 1924, neither Coolidge's or Davis' running mates ran in any primaries, in fact neither Davis he was chosen at the convention. In 1920 Cox chose FDR as his running mate, who didn't run in a primary that year. And Harding chose Coolidge who also didn't run in a primary that year.

1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
True

1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)
Marshall didn't run in any primary in 1912 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) neither did Taft's running mate Butler.

Since there were no primaries before 1912 there is no point to go on. But let's not forget our latest election in 2016 where neither VP candidate Pence or Kaine ran in their parties primaries.

So in the 27 presidential elections since the beginning of the primary system, with a total of 52 Republican or Democratic nominees, there were a total of 13 times that a nominee choose a former primary opponent as their running mate. 13 is 25% of the time. So 75% of the time they didn't. Now what would you call the norm 75% or 25%? I think my point has been proved. Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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wyldwolf

(43,891 posts)
398. Please show us that in your op.
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #395)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:48 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
400. Well you are free to show where my OP is factually incorrect
Reply to wyldwolf (Reply #398)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:54 PM
Mar 2020

as well as the factual inaccuracies in this post.

2012 (D): Obama / Biden (Biden was STILL Obama's primary rival)
Biden didn't run in any primaries in 12 and their GOP opponent Romey chose Ryan who didn't run in any primaries

2008 (D): Obama / Biden
True but McCain choose Palin who didn't run in any primaries.

2004 (D): John Kerry and John Edwards
OK but you leave out 2000. Neither Lieberman or Cheney ran in the primaries that year.

1996 (R): Bob Dole and Jack Kemp
OK but again you leave out both 1992 and 1988. Gore didn't run in 92 and neither Bentsen or Qualye ran in 88

1984 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I (Bush was STILL Reagan's primary rival)
There were no GOP primaries that year and Ferraro did run in the Dem primaries.

1980 (R): Ronald Reagan and Bush I
Yes but you omitted 76. Neither Mondale or Dole ran in the primaries.

1972 (R): Nixon / Agnew (Agnew was STILL Nixon's primary running mate)
True and neither of McGovern's running mates ran in the primaries.

1968 (R): Nixon / Agnew
Agnew didn't run in any primaries and neither did Muskie.

And in 1964 Goldwater's running mate William Miller didn't run in any primaries. And Johnson was opposed by George Wallace in the Dem primaries not by Humphrey.

1960 (D): John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
Actually Johnson didn't run in any primaries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Candidates) but made a play for the nomination at the convention and Nixon's running mate Henry Cabot Lodge didn't run in primaries either.

1956 (D): Adlai Stevenson and Estes Kefauver
OK but in 1952 Stevenson nor his running mate John Sparkman ran in any primaries. They were choosen at the convention. And Nixon didn't run in any primaries either.

1948 (R): Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren (Warren was a favorite-son candidate)
Yes and Truman's primary opponent was William Julian not his running mate Alben Barkley.

1944 (R): Thomas Dewey and John Bricker
OK and FDR's primary opponents were Joseph Ferguson and Harry Byrd not his VP Truman.

In 1940 neither FDR or Wendell Willkie picked a primary opponent at VP.

1936 (R): Alf Landon and Frank Knox
Yes and FDR's primary opponent Henry Breckinridge wasn't his running mate.

1932 (D): Franklin Roosevelt and John Nance Garner (X3)
Yes and Hoover had 4 primary opponents that year, none of whom were his running mate.

1928 (R): Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis
Curtis didn't run in any GOP primary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries) nor did Smith's VP Joe Robinson.

And since you skipped 1924, neither Coolidge's or Davis' running mates ran in any primaries, in fact neither Davis he was chosen at the convention. In 1920 Cox chose FDR as his running mate, who didn't run in a primary that year. And Harding chose Coolidge who also didn't run in a primary that year.

1916 (R): Charles Evans Hughes and Charles Fairbanks
True

1912 (D): Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Marshall (Marshall was a favorite-son candidate)
Marshall didn't run in any primary in 1912 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) neither did Taft's running mate Butler.

Since there were no primaries before 1912 there is no point to go on. But let's not forget our latest election in 2016 where neither VP candidate Pence or Kaine ran in their parties primaries.

So in the 27 presidential elections since the beginning of the primary system, with a total of 52 Republican or Democratic nominees, there were a total of 13 times that a nominee choose a former primary opponent as their running mate. 13 is 25% of the time. So 75% of the time they didn't. Now what would you call the norm 75% or 25%? I think my point has been proved. Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Gothmog

(154,590 posts)
292. I am comfortable with whoever Joe selects
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:30 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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hlthe2b

(106,379 posts)
368. Kennedy picked LBJ, Reagan picked George H.W. Bush
Reply to Dem4Life1102 (Original post)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:17 PM
Mar 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
372. Very true
Reply to hlthe2b (Reply #368)
Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:19 PM
Mar 2020

and noted that in the OP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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