Why is he up in Vermont?

You make an excellent point, though. Why is he not acting as Vermont's Senator, the job he was elected to do?

....to ponder. He has two, and one of them includes doing the job for which he was elected and is drawing a $174,000 annual salary.

However, a leader rises from disappointment and acts. If there are matters to be voted on in the Senate, then that's where he should be. If he does not participate in those weighty matters, then he is no leader at all. He is betraying all those who voted for him to hold that office.

Perhaps he is feeling sulky, up there in Vermont. Too bad. We are in crisis, and sulking is not an action that will help.

If he won't do the job he was elected to do, perhaps Vermont should consider electing a different senator. Right now, he is not acting like a leader.

He's 78 years old. Probably doesn't make sense for him to be in contact w/people more than necessary, especially since two members of the House and a couple Senate staffers have tested positive. I'm sure he'll be there to vote if the Dems need him, but otherwise it makes more sense for him to stay in Vermont.

As far as I know he hasn't attacked Biden at all since last week's primaries, and he's been raising money for charities rather than his campaign, so I don't know why everyone is so bent out of shape about him technically staying in the race.

...attacked Biden, he leaves that up to Turner, Gray, Sirota, and Orfalea. Sirota was back in the "Biden has dementia" thing again this week. You should check their Twitter accounts.

Sanders was back in Vermont late Wednesday afternoon/early evening, even while Senators were speaking on the floor.

Dianne Feinstein was in Washington late in the week - she's 86.
Dick Durban is in Washington (he spoke this afternoon on the floor of the Senate) - he's 75.
Chuck Grassley was in Washington late in the week - he's 86.

If one's age is an impediment to doing one's job, one should resign. He had no excuses for not being there.

And before you bash me for being "ageist", I was laid off years ago because of my age, filed a complaint with the state, won and was was restored to my job with full back pay of 18 months! I'm only a few years younger than him.

It seems like he could shelter in place at that home and be relatively close to the job instead of traveling over 500 miles to Vermont and exposing himself to the virus during transit.

should do his job. And quit with the silly round table shtick...he is not going to be president and must get out of the race and go back to the Senate.

Link to tweet

Did the other Senators who were running in the primary have similar records?

....he missed 253 straight votes from June 20 through January 5. Then he missed every vote from Feb 10 through Mar 12, another 38 in a row.

however to hold a town hall on Coronavirus with musicians. This was after Biden addressed the nation about a plan he had formulated. Bernie has no experience whatsoever in any public health
issue.

He's still in VT?

I thought he had a fcking crisis to deal with?

....what he meant.

It's over. If we didn't have this pandemic going on, he could maybe argue staying in longer. But now? No. It's time for all to coalesce around our presumptive nominee.

... his agenda. I always liked his agenda better than him, so I'm happy to have his winning removed from the discussion, as has effectively happened.

televised rallies that are pretending to be about COVID-19.

It's time to focus on the main goal, not promote something that cannot take place. We can win in November. We cannot get Sanders' pet projects enacted.

Well, if that's true he should get out now. That's what's best for all Americans.

He should do more than just get out, though. He should enthusiastically endorse the presumptive Democratic nominee. We need his followers to vote for Biden, too.

The only thing that can upset the apple cart in Trump's favor would be for a medicine to be found before November, by USA scientists, not ones from China, South Korea, Italy, Japan or the rest of Europe. But Trump wants to lead all of the parade instead of focusing on leading people the way the President Obama would, so Trump is likely to screw things up, as clinical trials of medicines prove disappointing, he starts attacking the men and women that are working their asses off to come up with medicines and a vaccine, that will only lead to more breakdowns.

races...everyday Sanders stays in, he hurts our efforts to defeat Trump in November...get the fuck out Sen. Sanders.

That is to say, his most devoted cult followers are dictating his moves. If he dropped out now and endorsed Biden they'd be howling about how he betrayed The Revolution, and I don't think he wants to deal with that.

He has my thoughts and prayers, to be sure...

but we "ain't got time for that now."

If that is the case, and it may well be, the man has no capacity for leadership whatever.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

His failure to control his more rabid, vicious supporters was proof of his inability, or maybe his unwillingness, to lead effectively.

And — judging from her posts on social media — it’s becoming abundantly clear that this is getting perilously close to a Jonestown-level of fanaticism. She’s not the only one.

Her feverish posts reflect the desperation within that cult. Bernie’s holding virtual town-hall meetings, while VP Biden doesn’t. To the cultists, this appears to be a sign of weakness. Maybe it’s because Joe no longer needs to. He’s got the lead in delegate-count.

IMHO, Bernie has an opportunity to show real leadership, by endorsing — and actively joining — a a much-larger movement. There’s WAY too much at stake than what (sadly) is likely to become a pissing contest in the well-orchestrated and — choreographed — 2020 election.

And the Drumpf campaign is rubbing their hands in glee (not hand-sanitizer) at this prospect!

Wake up, and give it up!

Trump's focus is on maintaining power while Bernie's is on tilting with windmills. By pulling out and throwing his full force behind Biden he will be seen as a hero. If he continue to play the game he's playing, he risks losing everything -- his reputation and any chance of his ideas being implemented.

An ego is a terrible thing to waste.

what he means when he says Democrats are really just the same as Republicans.

Are Democrats REALLY also complicit in genocide?

I can't tell you why "so many Joe supporters" do anything. However, I can tell you what I think, and have done so in the opening post of this thread. I'm pretty sure I explained myself adequately there, so i won't belabor my point any further to you.

The question, really, is: Wouldn't our nation be better served if Bernie Sanders pitched in to help Joe Biden win against Donald Trump?

What is your answer to that question, which is really the one raised in my OP?

I maintain my original position, despite your concern.

and the rest, even Bloomberg, are focusing on November and helping the presumed nominee dump Trump.

Bernie acts as if that's not the point of it all.

But if he forces states like mine to hold a primary, he is endangering a lot of people--and of course the people who are most at risk are least likely to be his supporters.

I've always liked him. I voted for him in the 2016 primary. But his window to victory is gone, and I will never forgive him if he forces people to the polls unnecessarily.

I nearly spit out my coffee at this comment: Corporate Dem Fascist Tools...OMG that was funny! No doubt many corporate dems are tools, but fascists? (By the way, what, exactly, defines a "corporate dem"?) I wonder why 4 years on the "Revolution" is failing?

I admit that I never considered sanders to be a serious candidate and never understood sanders appeal. sanders has no significant legislative accomplishments in his time in Congress in large part because sanders never bothered to attempt to get his fellow members of congress to support his programs. In the real world, it takes hard work and getting along with people to get major legislation passed. I was not surprised with sanders admitted that he does not try to get along with his fellow members of congress and that he was not good at pleasantries

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

When the one option is clearly the best - suspend his campaign and work to unify the Democrat party. (For evidence of the Bernie supporters doing this, take a quick look on Twitter.)

If Bernie stays in the race, the primaries continue and people go to the polls and spread the virus. For what? He has no chance of winning the nomination.

Bernie, this is absurd. Quit the race and unify.

There won’t be primaries for 2 months most likely so he’s hurting no one. Biden’s doing phone calls with the media everyday. Bernie’s not stopping him from getting attention. There is no problem.

and in the process, not allowing Democrats to unite behind a nominee.

Bernie refuses to accept that millions of Democrats have rejected him.

If he holds on forever, Biden's not going to have the time to mount a campaign against Trump. That is, unless he completely ignored Bernie's existence, holds no more debates with him, and proceeds as if Trump and only Trump is his opponent.

I'm sure Biden's people are considering this as a strategy. The ads seem to suggest it. Biden basically needs to catch up with the rest of us who already know that Bernie has no chance and pretend he's just not there. It's really not that hard anyway. The man isn't exactly a bundle of accomplishments.

....fundraising for Biden. Until there's only one candidate left, they won't do that.

Sanders has zero chance of winning, and his dream of "influencing the narrative and/or platform" is frittering away. His reputation and influence is being damaged every single minute that he remains a candidate.

Time to think of the millions of Americans in danger instead of onesself.

winning reelection can't be overstated...if Sanders gives a damn about this country,he will get out today. This is pretty much what I feared would happen...Sanders refusing to concede even though he has lost the race...I did not want him to run as I believed he would lose the primary and refuse to concede.

Bernie is becoming increasingly irrelevant

However, his supporters are not irrelevant to the upcoming election. That is what my call to him is about. If he is a leader, then let him lead those supporters to join with Democrats to defeat Trump. Let him lead them to the polls in November, enthusiastically and robustly. If he cannot do that, then he is not a leader who cares about the welfare of this nation. In that case, yes, he is truly irrelevant.

That comes with the impulse to run. People's egos often get in the way of their sensible actions. More's the pity.

It may be an unfair reading of your comment, but it seems you would be on-board with that. No surer means exist of securing re-election for Trump (one shudders even to write the words) than Sanders engaging in an third party campaign.


"Now that is cool. A highwayman puts a gun to my head and says give me your money or I shall have to shoot you, and then you will become a murderer."

as progressives can remotely make it possible for a person like Trump to have a chance at winning.

My guess on them is that they are populists for the things that put money in their pockets, but they are conservative on a lot of the social reforms that Trump has been busily gutting -they just don't care about anyone outside of some small circle that they tread in.

BTW, welcome back. I joined in 2010 and remember some of the people that took on MannyGoldstein and the small, but corrosive group that thought like him.

I can and do, however, suggest a course of action for him to consider. That I can do at any time and directed at anyone.

You suggest that Bernie's response might be to run as an independent? Really? If that were an actual possibility, that would be absolutely horrifying, because the consequences would be another four years of Trump. Not even Bernie Sanders would think that was a good idea, I'm quite sure.

So, I'm going to ignore such a threat completely. He will not do that. He would not threaten to do that. He has promised that he would not consider that in public statements.

Perhaps you don't know him as well as you believe you do, eh?

In any case, I doubt you represent the Seven Horses of the Apocalypse any better than you do Bernie Sanders.

He will lose and cease to be a Vermont senator. We won't put up with that shit. Then again, if that happens there probably won't be a Senate anymore, so that point is moot.

"Sore loser" laws preclude him from running.

A la Ralph Nader in 2000. Result: GW Bush and the Iraq war.

I am voting democrat. Always have. I am a Vietnam veteran
with two years of my life wasted. There are two sides to every
coin and it is men like Bernie that make this country grow, not Al
Gore's running mate.

I love my Post Office and Medicare and Social security.

going to do that. The voters have made their preference clear, and polling indicates that is not going to change.

So, your preference is moot, really. All that remains is for Bernie Sanders to accept that he will not be the nominee, and support the nominee selected by the primary voters. He seems reluctant to do so.

I do not recall preferring Bernie over Biden. Are you on a bandwagon?

but his DINO running mate was a deterioration of our party.
Just like you "Wall Street Hillary" fans. It is all about our greed.

Is Biden for "Medicare for all"? Is Debbie Wasserman Schultz for
"Medicare for All"? Hell no. We are a bunch of greedies. worried
about "food stamps". I am UNION, I believe in working. Everybody
should get paid well. I mean women as well as men.

Bernie is not my choice, nor is Biden, but I vote Democratic. I get
tired of Bernie getting a label here on DU. He is not a communist.

but your attacks on other Dems are very much pushing the line. Most everyone here agrees with your positions and understands what you're saying, and it would do more damage to quelch your opinions- that's why I voted against deleting your post.

But you need to know that you're being needlessly divisive in a time when it's a matter of our nation's and children's futures that we stay united against this fascism. For now, please tone it down.

I am not a troll. I am a Democrat, me and Jimmy Carter.

Are you asking to be blocked by the poster you are replying to?

Or are you asking to be dumped by DU?

thx

Bernie needs to stay the race till the very end. Bernie is the de facto leader of he country right now. No on has seen Joe since the last debate. Where is Joe? Why isn't he leading?

Is he leading? No. He is in Vermont, "assessing," while the body he was elected to by voters in Vermont is trying to figure out what legislation to pass.

Bernie Sanders is the leader of nothing at the moment. He is not even doing his job as a Senator.

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to be making much sense in your first post in the past 90 days.

Someone might top it before midnight, but it would be a titanic effort to do so.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

Indeed there is.

during the "to be or not to be" soliloquy?

The Senate has been in session all week, including today. Sanders left Washington on Wednesday night and, except for his online rock concert last night he's been virtually invisible.

Why isn't Sanders doing his job in the Senate this week?

How so? Please, enlighten us.

Joe Biden is the leader of our party and our only hope to rid this country of Trump. Sanders is an obstacle to beating Trump in November as long as he refuses to concede...and in the end he will have no real power anywhere if he doesn't do the right thing. He could be a leader in the Senate but now while he sits in Vermont with fake presidential round table 'discussions'.

Bernie needs to drop out now. In addition, he needs to tell his supporters, unequivocally, to vote for Joe Biden in the general election. This is not a time to play around. We need real leadership - we cannot afford another 4 years of gross incompetence with the orange one. Lives depend on us making the correct choice. I am quite a bit to the left of Joe Biden, but I am a realist and I relish the opportunity to vote for him this November. We must defeat this incumbent. I cannot even imagine what this country will look like with another 4 years of trumpista rule.

Thank you for the reply!

You dont like Bernie. You never liked bernie. You wish he would just go eat worms.

So, what do we do now?

1) Try to find ways to work together because the first and most important goal is to beat trump

2) Do our best to repeat 2016, voluntarily and vehemently dividing our party and alienating a significant chunk of voters in our ferver to hate one of the democratic candidates.



The future starts now, and if DU is any measure, it is VERY cloudy. These days we seem to be a credible argument that Democrats would prefer to go with option two. Who cares about beating Trump, whats important is beating our fellow democrats into submission, or at least away from our particular candidate.

I really hope that Joe and Bernie have a clearer head and are talking about things behind the scenes. And that the rest of Democratic voters at large are not mirroring the hate I see here.

I like his voice in the Senate. I do not think he would make a good President. Apparently, a sizable majority of Democrats agrees with that assessment. As for your points:

1. One of the way we work together to defeat Trump is for the loser of the primary race to join with the winner, through endorsement and leadership, to bring the loser's supporters to the polls to vote for the winner. That is something Bernie Sanders can do, starting immediately.

2. 2016 is ample evidence of my response to your point 1.

Bernie Sanders must decide on his course of action. I have suggested a course I think would be best. I cannot tell Bernie Sanders what to do, though. I can only hope that he will decide wisely what he should do.

Good day to you, Sir.

It falls in line with the hate that I see here on the regular. I basically dont post anymore, I cant even read here often nowdays because of it. If I spend a couple hours here, i start to weaken in my resolve to vote for Biden. Because of his supporters and the clear "fuck bernie and the horse he rode in on any anyone who ever supported him. I responded to you because ive read you before and usually respect and find wisdom in what you write.

Biden has won the primary in all but technicality and continues to campaign to be the democratic Nominee. Bernie is campaigning to bring in donations for charities. How much less of a threat could he be? I also disagree that Bernie is in charge of most of his supporters. See example: me. I've been a supporter for years. But I joined the Biden bandwagon at the time I chose, for the reasons I chose. Still love Bernie, still think hes the better choice, but his chance came and went, and its time for me to go with necessity over preference. And having the primary elections, which are not really in question at this point, continue on harms no one and lets voters make their will in picking Joe Biden ever more clear.

All the bagging on Bernie and his supporters here only serves to harm Bidens general election campaign. Bernie will not be winning the primary. It would take an act of god. And if that happens, none of our conversations here will mean spit. But breeding and feeding the interparty hate.. That could well lose votes for Biden.

My basic point, to draw a clumsy metaphor, is that our team is 21-0 ahead, with possession, and 30 seconds left on the clock. This is a great time to be chanting our teams name, building momentum, enjoying victory. Wasting our time booing the other teams continued existence serves no helpful purpose at this time.

And drawing away from that metaphor, we need the support of the other teams supporters in the final round, because the number of people cheering a team is what determines the final win, not the skill, ability, or worthiness of the teams.

I feel rather honored that you chose my thread in which to make one or two of your rare posts.

Its because I respect your postings here. Even when I dont agree with you, I usually see wisdom in what you have to say. It makes me think. This time I just felt you were running down the wrong path.

I just want us to work on how we can come together, how we can find ways to live with each other despite the clear splits in our party. Because winning the GE is more important. This is why I refrained from attacking any of our candidates through this, even the one I really thought would have been a disastrous choice. We need all of us together at the end of this. And it I think its far easier to be gracious in victory than it is to be in loss and grief.

I'm more afraid of Trump than of Covid19. I think if he gets another term he will kill many more of us than any plague ever will. Thats whats driving me.

Most discussion seems to take it as axiomatic Sanders must be petted and coaxed, but certainly never coerced, into joining a unified effort (a Popular Front, if you will) aiming to take out Trump and restore some sanity to our nation's government, and that only if the right combination of pretties please and sugars on top can be found will the man consent to do this. Why?





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

the segment of voters who have so far chosen sanders should be coaxed and courted.

The literally millions of people who chose to vote for Bernie sanders over all of the other potential candidates, each for their own reasons. Want to win? Sure California is blue no matter who. But Colorado.. Biden will need the 36% of Democrats who supported Bernie. And in Nevada. And in Minnesota, and Michigan and any number of other states that aren't just guaranteed blue wins. Heck even in states where Biden had his blowouts.. The Carolinas. If Biden is going to win the GE in those tough states, he will need the support of the minorities that voted for Sanders as well as the majorities that gave him his primary victory.

We need ALL of us on board to win. Trump will be cheating. We need margins that make it impossible to steal.

Sanders himself.. if he becomes a problem in the quest to remove trump, as a long time supporter, I say fuck him. Its not about Sanders, it never has been, and if it ever is, his movement is dead. Personally, I dont think that he is a problem. I think that as a person of Jewish heritage who's family came from Poland, he sees as clearly as almost anyone alive exactly what a second term of Trump would mean for all of us.

But the voters behind him, those we need.. We cant assume that trump is so bad that they will just fall in line, or be unnecessary. Thats what happened in 2016, and it has turned out disastrously for the country.

What prevents him from endorsing Mr. Biden now, and beginning the work of making sure his supporters come into the fold? We both know the sooner that is done, the better.

In the end, it has little to do with Sanders, and more to do with the voters who chose him. Most of his supporters will come to vote for biden in their own time. And his endorsement is relatively unimportant to many of us who have supported Bernie. We make our own choices, in our own time.

But what you are missing is that he already has begun the work. He came out and said he would be supporting biden when he has the delegates to win, or even if he enters the convention with just a plurality. Thats laying groundwork to endorse and support as a logical step in the process. He is asking for donations to charity, not to his campaign. I know because I still get the texts and emails several times a day. Thats not what you do if your intent on fighting a primary, thats how you ease your supporters into a new direction. He even went extremely easy on biden in the debate. He could have brought a lot of fire and tried to tear the VP down, at least in the eyes of his supporters. He didn't.

He is doing a ton of work in trying to prep his supporters to vote for Biden. But everyone here on DU seems determined to try and undo that work and drive people who voted for him away from Biden. I flat dont get it.

Why do people here want to repeat 2016? I want to win this. I dont want to die in a trump death camp.

The man can ease his supporters along perfectly well after conceding he has lost the contest.

Sanders is following the course he laid down four years ago, and there is no reason whatever to suppose he will not play the same wrecker's role today he did then.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

I have no time for your desire for petty over victory. I dont want to die in a trump death camp.

Go Biden, and goodbye

Though you seem to be reversing polarities on the 'petty' accusation. It is Sanders putting personal feelings over union for victory, by all apparent indications.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

really wants to get rid of Trump.

Now its time for Biden and more especially we who want Biden to beat Trump to work on that. It is the primary goal. Beat Trump.

And repeating the mistakes of 2016 is not the way to accomplish that.

In 2016.. Hillary supporters literally told me not to bother voting for Hillary. They had this in the bag, they didnt need me as a primary supporter of Bernie to sully their candidate with my vote. I did vote for her. I had a bad feeling about things and wanted to do anything I could to prove my fears about Trump wrong. But I was literally told not to by Hillary supporters so cocky they didnt think we needed all of us to beat Trump.

Lets not do this again. Lets be gracious in victory, not bitter. It feels like some here are more focused on creating an excuse for a GE loss than on creating a GE win.

We need a GE win. Hot fantasy football league need, like.. if we want to survive as individuals or as a nation need. This isnt a game. Lets get on doing the things to bring that about.

begin fundraising...Trump has a huge war chest and it will be tough for us with the Corona recession...Sanders needs to get out...I don't give a damn if he concedes or endorses...he just needs to quit so the DNC can begin fundraising for Biden and for down ballot races.

However, I cannot resist offering advice in this. I am that concerned with the future of the nation.

believe in their own sense of self importance.

An expansive ego is an essential part of running for high office, I think. One must believe that he or she has ideas superior to the other candidates for that office, whether that is true or not.

However, part and parcel of running for office is the chance of losing. If that occurs, it is essential to step back and accept the will of the voters and act in a way that advances the better choice in the election.

If someone's ego is too large to accept that, then a mistake was made in running in the first place. That often occurs, I suspect.

everybody just ignored Bernie Sanders? Clearly, the Democratic nomination race is not at the forefront of the news these days, and won't be until the convention.

Frankly, a lot of my worry about what the Sanders supporters will do or not do this November have been calmed. The mushy middle hates being inconvenienced, and coronavirus will make them pissed off enough at whoever is in charge.

However, there will be, and are, a lot of people who are not ignoring him. In reality, will will need some of those to vote for Joe Biden in November. Really, only Bernie can convince some to do that by supporting Biden enthusiastically. Others, who are avid Sanders supporters might well react with a fit of pique and withhold their vote or vote contrary to even their own principles. That happened in the last presidential election.

Only Bernie can convince some of his followers to support and vote for Biden. Will he do that? I do not know. He was very late in finally supporting Hillary Clinton, so it's unclear.

I'm not as worried about the Sanders supporters as I used to be. Clearly, they believed Hillary Clinton was going to win, so that made their vote for Stein, etc. risk-free.

They know better this time around, and in any case, swing voters always vote for whoever scares them the least. How that cannot be Joe Biden after the unprecedented hell that we're about to go through would defy the psychological/sociological rules that underlie the science of politics.

Plus, there can be interference with elections that allows a small minority to affect results inordinately.

That's why Biden needs the support of Sanders supporters - just in case.

for what they perceive to be their best interests. No, not a "big picture" best interest, but in whatever has freaked them out most recently.

Coronavirus will not be over and done with by November. Even if there are no more sick and dying, the economic damage will take years to repair, and the memory of recently deceased victims of the pandemic will not have faded away. And even Sanders supporters know that. There was a feeling (fed by Wikileaks, of course) that somehow Hillary and the DNC "cheated" Bernie Sanders, when it will be obvious that Joe Biden will win the nomination by having won enough votes to get the nomination on the first ballot.

Sanders and Biden do not have the hostility that Sanders had for Hillary Clinton four years ago, that will be reflected in the behavior of his supporters.

A strong, timely endorsement by Senator Sanders would help ensure that result, I believe.

or at the convention, the result will be the same. At this point, and for all the time between now and then, people will have other things on their minds.

Well-written, as always, MM.

Nice touch using Yiddish!

I know some of those words.

There are a few others (that we needn't mention) that capture a fundamental essence!

list to raise money for those in dire need right now as well as helping inform people with his round tables. As to where he goes from here, that’s his decision.