He still has a chance in 2028

Hold an online coronavirus summit with the squad and a musical guest on board but no doctors or medical experts. Just saying.

Absolutely nothin’!

Where the hell is Sanders today, btw?

of whiners.

Too bad those Berners forgot about the primaries.

simpleton. This guy seems to embrace them both.

and his hatchet men. It's over.

no matter how hard they try beating that very dead horse.

But it was Bush's war. Nobody cares anymore which Senators voted for the AUMF in 2002, which was most of them. We are in the middle of an existential crisis right now, and Bernie has made himself irrelevant by continuing to beat that dead horse.

Some people care, some people don't. To be more precise, progressives mostly care, and centrist mostly don't.

are grasping at almost 20-year-old straws to try to discredit the candidate that the majority of Democrats have chosen. But that's how democracy works. In the words of Mick Jagger, you can't always get what you want. Most Democrats don't want Bernie.

Corbyn activists whinged and whined about 'Blairites' and Iraq, even made not voting for Iraq an canvassing issue, and the result was Johnson with an eighty seat Tory majority. This issue won't move a dozen votes in a national election, and no one with the least sense imagines it will.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

You'd think Bernie might learn a lesson from that disaster, but no.

Not the US Congress, not President Bush... just Biden.

Oh wait, only Bernie supporters do that. Never mind!

Hundreds of US legislators all share responsibility. And just in case you are planning to fall back on the good ole "none of them are running for President", nine of them have since 1994. I haven't heard any of them mentioned by Bernie or Bernie's surrogates in this context. Like you said, if you are really interested in calling out everyone who shares responsibility, it is time to quit singling Biden out, especially in response to Bernie's failure to get Democratic votes.

Quit deflecting. Yo know full well what my question is, and you know exactly what I mean. "But...Obama!" Is a poor excuse for a response

primary.

A clear indication that you have lost whatever you were trying to pass for an argument. This is how you know you never had an argument to begin with. I would suggest you quit bringing up a n event that happened quarter of a century ago into the context of a current primary. It's a non-starter.

Iraq War. And for that matter, they can decide for themselves whether the Iraq War was a quarter century ago or not.

And, based on the people's vote in the primaries, it's a non-starter.

Unless you insist that Bernie supporters are the only people around. Which seems to be exactly what Bernie supporters think.

But if you think it's over already, and the Iraq War is irrelevant, then why worry about it?

It IS over, and the Iraq war IS irrelevant. I am just tired of hearing the same irrelevant crap on the subject that is over. If I can't get through to you on this simple matter, trust me, you are embarrassing yourself. It is in your own self-interest to quit now.

Thanks for your concern about my "self-interest", but I can live with centrists on the internet thinking that I'm "embarrassing" myself by talking about the Iraq War. I'm sure Jennifer Rubin and David Frum would disapprove lol.

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

After Vietnam, there was aversion to senseless wars for a few decades, but then it faded, and we got Iraq. And maybe the memory of how horrible the Iraq War was is starting to fade too. That's why it's so much to Bernie's credit that he opposed the Iraq War in principle, even though the polls at the time were point in the opposite direction.

....we have a LOT more important things to be concerned with today. Divisive rhetoric today that will only strengthen trump in the coming months is unnecessary and destructive.

Go read up a little on the Biden-Lugar Resolution and learn something.

but not unexpected. Since you refuse to do your homework I guess others will have to do it for you. Fortunately I spent many hours if not days researching this back in the mid-2000s when I was posting on WaPo, so I'll try to give it to you in a nutshell.

Biden & Lugar tried to reel in Dubya by introducing an intermediate resolution between doing nothing (which was not a realsitic option) and a full-blown carte blanche AUMF. It would have required that Dubya & Gang do everything possible before attacking/invading Iraq...stuff like economic sanctions and diplomacy to allow our inspectors back in so they could check things out. Also would have required UN support to get an international coalition on board.

If Dubya & Big Dick & Rummy had exhausted all possibilities it woulda then required that they come back to Congress and prove to them that they had indeed done all they could and that there were no other options besides the last resort of using military force before getting a final approval to go whack 'em. Lugar & Chuck Hagel could only get so many Republicans on board so they went to Joe and said "you need to get X amount of your Democrats to vote for it" and we think we can get it through. Joe got all the Dems together and got some to commit to signing up but not enough. Boxer & Wyden left the meeting arm-in-arm laughing so I blame them too. Another rigid ideologue who refused to compromise one iota was your good ol' beloved Bernie Sanders.

As a result of this and also Rep Gephardt who had presidential ambitions at the time making a backroom deal with Bush and backstabbing the Dems before Biden could get more Dems on board it all fell apart and we ended up with the now infamous AUMF that Bush & Cheney & Rumsfeld then put into action before the ink was even dry. In all likelihood it woulda passed even if Biden and Clinton had not voted for it...I believe the Senate was around 50-50 at that time so it was unrealistic to expect no Dems wouldn't vote for it in the aftermath of 9/11, after all...what with all the drumbeating for war and pressure the right was putting on Democrats.

We had a chance to put a leash on Dubya and take a common sense approach but Bernie and others refused to take even a single step to meet guys like Biden, Durbin, Hagel, Lugar and others halfway and we all know what happened after that. Stick that in your Bernie pipe and smoke it.

Tired of this Sanders revisionist history bullshit.

against the Iraq War and Biden voted for it.

There was a vote, and that's how it went down.

the vast majority of Democrats are voting for Biden and not Sanders.

We already have one rigid black-and-white ideologue in the White House and the country doesn''t want another.

I can see why you can't understand nuance and don't know what the hell actually happened...you won't even read a few paragraphs attempting to inform you.

Through wasting time on you just like the Democratic Party is done wasting time on your candidate.

On the issues, they prefer Bernie, again the exit polls make that clear.

Basically, the Dem voters are making the same calculation as in 2016, that going with a centrist who voted for the Iraq War and NAFTA is the best bet to beat Trump. Hopefully we get a different outcome this time.

whatever rationalization you can come up with that helps you sleep at night then run with it.

Personally I don't give a shit...the Democrats chose the FAR better candidate when it came down to mano-a-mano and they made me proud.

You, not so much.

We won't know whether the centrist calculation of nominating Biden is the right choice until November. It didn't work out in 2016, which is part of the reason I support Bernie this time around. Hopefully it will work out this year.

I just wrote you a multi-paragraphed and informative post that you either didn't understand or refused to read and now you're accusing me of "dodging".

This is like arguing with a lefty Trumpist. They got digital on-off brains just like you do. I prefer analog myself as do most of my fellow Democrats. Which is why I love 'em.

The one that ignored the actual votes on the Iraq War? That one?

Just like your beloved Bernie's chances.

But soldier on, Bro!

Now you're telling us Bernie was denied his rightful nomination because Democratic voters are too stupid to vote for what they really want. No, they'd rather vote for a warmonger like Biden, right? Apparently, they've been bamboozled and hoodwinked by the establishment into believing warmongers are more "electable."

Why do Democrats believe Biden is more electable? Could it be that they see right through this tired, old "Biden supported the Iraq war, Sanders didn't" nonsense, and are more sophisticated than that? Perhaps voters really understand most of Sanders' policy prescriptions don't have a snowball's chance in hell of being enacted.

Biden is ahead, fair and square, because voters think he's more electable, despite liking Bernie's policies more.

Yes, of course the establishment and the corporate media were all in for Biden. And yes, obviously that makes a difference. But that's not cheating, that's just the way it is, when you take on powerful corporate interests like Bernie does, then you get a lot of push-back. That's just reality. I'm still glad that people like Bernie are willing to take on those interests, even though it's an uphill fight and it would be easier to fall in line with the establishment and corporate interests.

because there were enough votes without his participating.

So wouldn't that mean that neither his vote against the AUF nor Biden's vote for it mattered, since the outcome was a the same with or without those votes.

And if Bernie doesn't feel like he needs to be in DC arguing for (and proposing) worker and consumer oriented relief measures then why would anyone think he could get anything through Congress as President?

Time for him to stop playing the role of Don Quixote.

I think I read a while back that this forum has an ignore feature. Is that true?

Because if it is I may have found my very first candidate...the guy you were responding to.

Good post, BTW.

Then click "ignore" when the new page opens up
Then they go bye-bye!

I owe you one. Have a cyberbeer on me...



Man, that looks like a real dark brew like a Guinness Extra Stout or something. I'm more of a Blue Moon or Sam Adams kinda guy myself...LOL.

Don't mind if I do-cheers

When I clicked ignore a whole bunch of other people's posts also disappeared. That's kinda a dumb feature if that's how it works.

Oh, well...guess I'll just have to go back to manual mode when it comes to ignore.

Easy on that Stout...it'll sneak up on you.

While I've been reading here for years, I only have actually been posting for a short time, and I'm still getting used to the "controls" myself, heh. I apologize for any inconvenience I gave you.

Guess you're right about the stout

are just desperate purity wedges.

decades. It doesn't mean I won't vote for Biden over Trump. But the fact that Biden is better than Trump doesn't lessen the horribleness of the Iraq War. Both are true.

you know how that goes, as do most Democrats who understand it was Bush's war.

and he has not won a single election over it.

It is tone deaf to think that the electorate cares one iota about the Iraq war.

more sense.

Is it not crystal clear to everyone now that Bernie is one hundred percent supportive of this type of crap. Sanders seems to like to play good cop while feigning ignorance of his surrogates actions while they play bad cop and Bernie conveniently gets to keep his hands clean. Nevermind the fact that Jane brought this turd back into the campaign. Now is not the time for this crap. Our country is currently on its knees and they want to play cute politics games?? Seriously?? You have not a single hope of winning the nomination Bernie. It's fucking over! So, do what all the other non-viable candidates did and how our gracefully and continue to serve the country in your role as Senator, or become a pariah forever by helping to re-elect Donald Trump. What's it going to be?

I don't get it.

Similar personality traits, outlook on life, etc., is the strongest correlation by far between partners. Education, background, economic status, even religion per se, are all secondary to whether you're the kind of person who slanders and libels others or the kind who's appalled by those who do.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

He's an Independent. He's running as an Independent in 2022, he wants to take down the Democratic Party. I'm sick of it.

Not even Republicans think that! It's absurd.

I thought it was Bush.