Irony still exists

A key feature of Bernie's campaign is to demonize the Democratic party and suggest that it is no different from the Republican party:

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or not Bernie reads DU.

As I stated in my other post, I am one who has been pummeled for any positive statement I make about Senator Sanders.

When I see "My Posts" lit up I am almost afraid to check it.

I am also tired of the cyberbullying at this site and I have begun to ponder leaving the Democratic Party because of it. This Bernie and Bernie supporter bashing is not ultimately good for the Democratic Party. We do need every vote we can get. Our very lives depend on it now!

So leave du if you wish, buT there is no need to leave the Democratic Party.

Take care!

It is often wise to take a break from boards. Amazing how it helps your perspective.

I have done it many times. Just do not threaten to leave because it might be hard to come back.

in that regard. There is some really ugly rhetoric in places here.

n/t

And it exists in the context of other social media in which it is Sander's supporters denigrating Joe Biden overwhelmingly, and that cannot be ignored.

Winners can afford to be gracious. Losers have grief to work through which makes it much harder.

The hardcore ones that only have hate for Biden can be ignored. They are full of sound and fury and signify nothing. Biden is handily winning despite anything they have to say. Let them dig their own holes. Let them drive the rank and file Bernie voter away and into voting for Biden. Focus our fire on Trump. Win.

Or spend time and energy on attacking Bernie and all his supporters and drive them away and watch Trump laugh all the way to the election.

We tried path b in 2016. It didnt work. Please lets try path A. We cant afford another term of trump.

When did everyone become so delicate and thin-skinned about politics, of all things? When did criticism of other candidates become "attacks?"

You are not the first people to have your candidate criticized and you're not the first to lose a campaign. We didn't have these "oh we need time to grieve" self-pity fests when Carter beat Ted Kennedy like a pinata in 1980, or when Gary Hart had to drop out in 1984. I supported both of those candidates who lost, worked my ass off on their campaigns, and you know what happened when they had to back out? Some of the campaign workers cried the day we had to shut down, but after that, we got over it and went to work for the guy who became the nominee without being whiny little babies about it. We didn't demand or even expect anyone to coddle us or pat us on the head and say, "There, there. You tried." Who had time for that, when there was a nominee who needed our help? So help we did. Because it wasn't about us and our precious fee-fees; it was about electing a Democrat.

What is the MATTER with all of you berners that you got so emotionally over-invested in a mere politician? What part of he's a politician--that's it!--are you incapable of understanding? You don't sound like political supporters. You sound like a cult when you talk about "grieving" the failure of your dear leader and his "revolution" to summon the masses to beat the blue meanies or however it works in your political fairy tale.

Look, it's okay to be enthusiastic about a candidate, and, yes, even unhappy that he lost. But to need to GRIEVE about the campaign not winning over enough voters, as if you just lost a loved one? Do you not get how that's a little off-kilter?Why is it necessary to GRIEVE about other people not wanting what you did--which is what an election boils down to? It's not about you or BS or his supposed ideas. It's about which group has more people saying what they want from a candidate. It has nothing to do with you, personally, so why are you taking it so personally, when you weren't even the candidate who was voted against?

Even when I was 18 years old and having to sweep out the Ted Kennedy campaign office before we turned over the keys to the realtor, I didn't need to fricking grieve over the end of his campaign. None of the older people around me did, either. TK gave it his best shot, we gave it our best shot in support of him, but we all came up short. That's all there was to it, and crying about it didn't change it.

Elections come and go, year after year, if you're a real political junkie. Or every 2 or 4 years, if you're not. Candidates and campaigns, too, come and go. Many run, but very few make it to the finish line. The chance of disappointment is always far higher than the elation of victory. That's how it's always been, and how it always will be. Nothing you do will change that. All you can do is accept however a campaign turns out, and move on.

So why did I understand all of that at 18, while so many berners much older than that don't?

Wonderful stuff.

When was the last time that democrats had to literally be afraid they would end up in death camps if the next election goes poorly?

When was the last time this many Americans were living so close to the edge of catastrophe. Not as a nation, as a group, but as separated individuals living so close to the razors edge of personal survival or not?

Why do people support Bernie? IF its because its a political game to them.. Sure, they will hop over to Biden nice n easy.

But if its because they genuinely believe he was the only one who could beat trump, and they either dont believe Joe can, or are worried about whether he can.. Yeah. Its scary AF for those people to let go of the hope of Bernie.

And if its because they think Bernie is the only one who will actually help them. Or their family. Or other community members they see suffering.. Yeah. Grief is reasonable at the lost of hope.

Even If Bernie dropped out and endorsed tomorrow, it would change none of that. It would be change none of that for many.

Because its NOT ABOUT BERNIE.

Its about people.

And in close.. I really dont care if you dislike people being delicate or whatever. Reality is as it is whether you like the shape of it or not. The fact is if WE want to win, WE need the votes to make it happen. Including a bunch of the folks that chose to vote for Bernie. Many of them will come over of their own accord. Others will need persuading. If we want to win the GE thats what needs to happen.

Or we can see what a second term of Trump looks like. Your choice, I guess.

Biden is hardly a step down in supporting their dreams and hopes. Furthermore, only the immature and the naive think there’s only one true candidate to save them all. There is no perfect candidate. You know why? Because anybody who wants to run for office has to have a screw loose. And the higher the office, the more screws are loose.

I mean, really—think about it. Think about doing something where you, your family, your friends, your associates, your education, your career—everything you’ve ever done or said, everything about you is going to be dug through and ransacked and distorted and who knows what else while you run for office. Do you know what kind of egomaniacal and/or power-hungry fool not only does it, but also volunteers for it?

You have to be nuts to take all that on by choice. And, if you’ve ever worked on a campaign where you have close contact with the candidate, you’d know how they are not like other people. I’m not saying they’re bad people, necessarily. Only that they’re a bubble or two off plumb, as my grandfather used to say.

They are flawed human beings, just like the rest of us, who you’re looking at to fill a job position, not become your pal or lover. You’re associating with them because they not only agree with you about how to exercise power (what politics is really about), but also because they’re crazy enough to take on the world’s worst job interview from hell. You’re the boss giving them the interview, and smart bosses know that it’s a bad idea to hire people for emotional reasons, or to get overly invested in them, emotionally. You have to maintain your objectivity, because the hiring choice you’re making is so important to the future of not only yourself, but millions.

That’s why you don’t become so emotionally over-invested that you don’t grieve over someone not qualifying for a job. You let them go, and hire the candidate who had the better resume and interview.

One last thing: An election is not a kumbaya, peace love dope enterprise. It’s a competition for power, where few will win and many will lose. If you aren’t prepared to lose—or can’t handle it when it happens, and it always happens, then you need to find another hobby. Because all politics will do is shatter you.

Maybe I can be detached and philosophical about these things because I’ve been a Democrat in Texas for most of my life. Losing is something we’re used to down here. That’s why we don’t get to the point of needing to grieve if a candidate loses. Because it’s a waste of time and energy. And because you’d be destroyed after only two election cycles if you didn’t get a thicker skin and learn how to be more objective about candidates.

Here's how they processed their grief-- they stopped their campaign and endorsed the presumptive candidate and turned their own campaigns towards supporting him, and urged their voters to do the same.

I'm not sure what is so intensely special about Sanders and Sanders voters?

Why the onus is not on Sanders to make overtures towards Mr. Biden, rather than demands, in order to heal a potential rift, remains unclear to me....




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

If you disagree, provide facts to show why the comments are wrong. For example could you explain how sanders’ magical voter revolution works? I and others never considered sanders to be a serious candidate in the real world due to sanders’ complete lack of legislative accomplishments. Why pay attention to a candidate who had never been able to get his agenda adopted or even supported by his fellow democrats

As I understand, we are suppose to ignore sanders utter lack of legislative accomplishments because sanders was going to cause some sort of magical voter revolution that would get his agenda adopted. How does this magical voter revolution work in the real world?

You can defend sanders best if you are able to use facts to explain sanders accomplishments and how Sanders magical voter revolution worked

That is what this thread is about. Your opinion that your negative opinion of Bernie and people who like him and his message is an opinion, not a fact no matter how many times you assert that it is truth. More importantly, posting every day for months on end is divisive no matter how many times you think you are just expressing your opinion.

As to voter revolution, it works the same way for every candidate including the ones you support.
How is Joe Biden going to improve the ACA if McConnell controls the Senate. You ask how Bernie is going to get what he wishes. The answer is clearly now he wont because he is not the candidate. Now how is Joe Biden going to get anything positive for us. The answer is a voter revolution that kicks the Republicans out of power in the Senate. So the answer is the same you would give.

As to the rest of your post, its pure opinion. Bernie is on the left side of our national political calculus. We have not enacted things that the left would like but his and other leftist voices push our debate, Further, as you know, since its only been pointed out to you a gazillion times, he has been very effective amending bills to improve them or remove ugly bits.

With regard to your constant attacks. Just support Joe Biden. Just Stop being divisive. We are all getting enough stress in our current life and would like to log into a Democratic Site we have looked at and posted for years and years and not see every post a bash on a candidate some of us might like.

Biden won. Take your victory and stop bashing others.

The utter lack of significant legislative accomplishments by sanders is something called a fact. Congress keeps records of which member of congress sponsored a bill and if that bill becomes law. It is a fact that sanders has no significant legislative accomplishments in the real world. Most candidates who run for POTUS have accomplishments which they use to justify their run for the most important office in the world. It is fact that sanders has no such accomplishments in the real world which is why I and a great many others never took sanders seriously and I am not alone.

In the real world, it takes hard work and getting along with people to get major legislation passed. I was not surprised with sanders admitted that he does not try to get along with his fellow members of congress and that he was not good at pleasantries

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Every single politician on this planet and every person has stuff that one could do the same thing. This is true of every politician you support. There are no saints and there are no perfectly brilliant people. All people make mistakes. Joe Biden has made political mistakes in his past. If I posted it relentlessly and claimed it was all fact and everything that defined him, you would correctly take offense. That is the problem with your opinions. Bernie is not perfect and has policies that you may not like. Feel free to not like a politician but give other people the same courtesy. I would much rather live in a world that has the principles Bernie has stood for years. You may not. What I like about him is that he does not originate compromise watered down bills although he does vote for them and does offer amendments.

That is what I like about Bernie. Notice that I have not said any specific flaw about your candidate who is soon to be our candidate. This is because I care about unity. However, what you want to do is hammer anyone who disagrees with you about Bernie into the ground by picking his imperfections while not seeing what makes him generally liked by most democrats. This is all irrelevant except that right now we are in the midst of a crisis and rather than unify with other democrats that generally are on the same side as compared to the republican mindset, you want to post out your hatred of Bernie which has no unifying elements at all.

Try it. Skip a day. Post only why you like Joe and how great he is and all that he has accomplished rather than posting why other people should not like Bernie. You might like it.

Again, I have never considered sanders to be a serious candidate because I live in the real world where accomplishments matter. sanders is ignored by his fellow Democrats because all sanders does is talk and sanders does not engage in the hard work necessary to get legislation adopted. Even Senator Warren is tired of sanders

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I have been posting on DU since 2003. I used to support the site frequently with donations. I no longer do so because the conversations are frequently toxic, especially since the data breach in 2016. According to research I've read, 20% or so of posts on a site like this are likely to be troll farm creations, and the treatment of Sanders supporters on this site is certainly in line with turnout suppression tactics that benefit Russia and Republicans.

I have always enjoyed vigorous debate during the primaries, and that's why I've persisted here despite the constant scapegoating of left candidates, especially Sanders. But this forum no longer reflects or respects the diversity of opinions among Democrats. A small number of high volume posters intentionally seek to dominate conversations, and there is no longer any effort on the site's behalf to enforce the TOS.

There are some quality news sources linked to this site and there are posters I respect and learn from. Still, I am thinking lately that I need to trade the time I spend here for visiting my local Democratic office. Also, I'd like to spend some time working with younger voters, who are also bashed here constantly and ridiculed for supporting Sanders, the candidate who has most boldly spoken up for the failures of our currently disastrous policy directions in many areas.

Since I have always maintained connections to local and state officeholders and policy groups, those ties have fed my enthusiasm for working on behalf of strong progressive policies. Meanwhile, for almost 20 years DU has been my go-to place to learn about national trends, and it was actually the first blog I ever posted on, back when blogs were a novelty. Unfortunately, the high volume, one trick posters, like the one you corresponded with, won't own up to the toxicity they generate in a once-inclusive discussion forum. The best we can do is to avoid allowing this toxicity to contribute to a second Trump win in November.

I continue to post in the primaries forum mostly so lurkers, especially young lurkers, do not get a false impression of how Democrats think and act. Also, we on the left need to keep raising attention and support for structural change. We're already in deep water on issues of wealth inequality, climate change, and health care access, and if the left doesn't stay strong, structural change will not happen.

Thanks for fighting the good fight. Let's make sure Biden is elected in the fall, notwithstanding the counterproductive internet behavior on this forum.

She like Hillary are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better qualified than any of the people they ran against.

I also wished that she had run in 2016. I think she would have had an easier time in the primaries and then the General Election than this year. She is fairly remarkable. I can not agree with you on Hillary but appreciate your opinion. Anyhow, although I supported Elizabeth as well this year although I like most of our candidates in different ways in this primary. Its kind of refreshing but all of them had some points and qualities to offer this year.

I'm actually waiting on an absentee primary ballot for our April 7 primary. Still undecided, but it may end up a symbolic primary vote for Warren.

You don't have a revolution. That's what you don't get.

If you had a revolution, you would be winning right now. You're not.

Biden is also on the left side of our political spectrum--it's not a calculus. That's math, not a position. He's not pushing any debate that hasn't been pushed for decades now. We're tired of this hoary old canard that only St. Bern has ever offered single payer or economic justice or raising the minimum wage of any of the other false claims that get trotted out to prop up your candidate. They're just not true, and you're being insulting and divisive when you make such dishonest assertions.

As for your what if game, I'll play: You know how Joe Biden gets the ACA improved? By doing what BS never will: Working his butt off while also running for POTUS to help Democrats take back the Senate. He will be coordinating with every Democratic candidate running for the Senate to retain or flip seats to his side so he has a majority there. If we can have a normal campaign season (a big if), Biden will be attending more rubber chicken dinner fundraisers than you've ever choked down in your entire life to help raise money for down ticket candidates. He will be in their districts, promoting them at every turn. He will pick a VP who will be charged with doing all of those same things--and more. And all of those people that he supports? They will be busting their hump not only for their own campaigns but for his too, to get them all elected. They are all going to be working together to get each other elected. Because that's what PARTIES do.

Being part of a political party is very much like being in any other social pack. The people in the pack can't succeed if it's all dog-eat-dog, every person for himself. More of them get what they need when everyone works together for the good of all. And, yes, there's a huge amount of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Not when it's done for the greater good. So Joe will go down to Arizona and support Mark Kelly, and shake hands and kiss babies and say all the right things--and Kelly will do the same for Joe in return. That's what the pack does when they have a goal they're working toward.

This is what Biden brings to the race that BS is incapable of comprehending, never mind accomplishing: The understanding that the election won't be all about Joe, and he alone won't get it done. He needs those Democrats running for office in Maine and Kentucky and Arizona and wherever else, because they know their local electorates and what will get them to the polls, better than anyone. And they need Biden, because the POTUS candidate stumping for them is campaign adrenaline that money can't buy. Because Biden understands that the party has to work together, to support each other as a team, and not just to get him alone into office, he has the better chance of not only become President, but flipping the Senate D again. He always had the better chance of succeeding at both in November than BS ever could have, for this reason.

As for your constant attacks on non-BS Democrats, try practicing what you preach. BSers need to stop being divisive and stop bashing Biden and those who don't agree with BS or his supporters--which you just did. You hardly have room to dictate behavior to us when BSers paint every criticism as an attack, and then pull passive-aggressive stunts to bully Biden supporters into silence by implying that the only divisiveness comes from our side. As if any BSer is in any position to judge on that issue. We're not the ones claiming that an opposing candidate has dementia. We're not the ones simpering the scurrilous right-wing memes like, "Where's Biden?"--when he's dominating the media far more than BS has to date. We're not the ones lying that our vote is being taken away if a candidate concedes.

BSers are.

When your candidate or his supporters warrant criticism, we have the right to express it. And if you don't like it, well, there's the door. Nobody's forcing you to stay.

We really need likes on this forum! Great post.

I do not try to convince you not to like anyone. Try doing the same. Try not trying to convince people including me why we should not like someone. Try posting why you like someone rather than why I should not like Bernie. That is called a unifying way of discussing. I posted why I liked Bernie. My posts here are are saying, begging people to stop bashing a significant part of the democratic coalition. The primaries are basically over. Joe Biden will be our candidate. Stop trying to hammer your hatred of Bernie into people who like him. You might find it refreshing to just talk about your love of Joe.

This campaign I went into it vowing to not post any negatives about any candidate and just like my candidate and yes defend her (My first choice was Elizabeth) against attacks. However, the main attacks are all against Bernie who I also like and liked as my second choice. I think I have pretty much held to my vow as all you can do is go back 4 years to find any post of mine attacking another candidate.

Notice you had to go back to the last campaign (nothing about this one) to find any post that even discussed another candidate or tried to "vet" them. Even 4 years ago, I tried to post on policies and votes that I disagreed with although I am not claiming that in 2016 you wont find snark in some posts 4 years ago. In 2016, my biggest concerns were the votes allowing cluster bombs in civilian areas by Hillary, the fact that the emails did violate democratic party priniciples which gave rise to Sunshine laws including the Freedom of Information Act. My main concern for the general election was we were running a candidate that polls showed had net unfavorable at the beginning of the campaign

Even then when pointing to Hillary's net unfavorables which were the second highest in history of any candidate other than Trump, I always attached the words "deserved and undeserved" and attacked Republican scams like the Benghazi hearings as totally unfair. My main thought in 2016 was that the biggest predictor of an election is these net unfavorables on the election date. Early polls do not mean much but it would take a lot of work to move those net unfavorables in a public person who everyone knows. None of our candidates this year had the same unfavorables which is why I did not this year have similar concerns. There are still policy concerns and vote concerns I have but I have a lot more confidence that Joe Biden will win the election.

Was I perfect in 2016 in keeping emotion and not engaging in fisticuffs. No I don't think I was but I also didn't swarm DU constantly posting negatives about everything. Anyway you got me to engage on the fact that yes I was not perfect in 2016 and sometimes entered the swarm. Congratulations.

However, we lost 2016 so I tried to learn from the disunity and changed. This thread by others does not show the same recognition that the path to removing Trump does not come from bashing other Democrats.

I didn't do what some DU people do every day to every person here who expresses that they like Bernie. Nor did I look every day for something to bash Hillary for. I also expressed that I liked Hillary and expressed liking some of the things she stood for and did. That is completely different than what is going on here against Bernie supporters and Bernie. However, I decided this year not to say a single word against any other democratic party candidate because even if its something I believe, it is totally divisive. I wish others had learned that lesson.

It just needs a lot of voters to vote for the Democratic senate candidate in a state where the GOP incumbent is up for election. That's not a "revolution."

I'm not attacking-- I just disagree that a "revolution" is needed, or even that that's remotely what Sanders could bring anyway. What is meant by a "revolution"?
And how is that more likely than just a whole lot of voters voting for (or more likely against) a candidate in a state?
If McConnell loses in Kentucky (fingers crossed), it's not going to be because of a revolution, but because a lot of people vote against him for Amy McGrath. Plain old GOTV, same as happened in the House in 2018.

A voter revolution is "a lot of voters to vote for the Democratic senate candidate in a state where the GOP incumbent is up for election." For years, our statutes coming out of congress have lagged public sentiment. Lots of reasons for it but primarily its Republicanism. Democrats disagree on ways to address our problems whether through incremental change or directly addressing with big bills. However both cases need democrats to stand up and vote for people who will pass legislation supporting the policies that the voters who are voting want. That is all Bernie says and is pretty much exactly what every democratic candidate needs. If we do not vote for democrats, Biden will have the same problems as Obama had and will be as impeded in trying to pass smaller incremental change as Bernie would to pass more substantial change. The people who attack Bernie ignore that every Democratic candidate needs changing in the Senate to pass anything and that will only happen if we vote.

Beating Donald Trump.
Healthcare, voting rights, all of it comes AFTER Donald trump is gone.

Took the political alignment quiz on DU.
I mostly align with Pete. That’s probably 100% true. But we need to win 2020.

Biden is the one.

Politician have to have thicker skin than their supporters.

Notice that you don't mention Bernie or anyone else negatively. You mention Pete and Joe using positive language. This is the type of unifying post as we discuss politics. You are saying what you like rather than bashing other peoples opinions. Thank you.

I can’t imagine folks here have much nice to say to Trump supporters. And I’m having a harder time telling the difference these days.

and sad that people can't just get along and respect anyone else's different opinions. Progressive and liberal are not dirty words, they are words used to describe the evolved. With the steaming pile squatter we have on our white house, we should be better than that, k?

We're posting articles about what went wrong.. that is Not "Bashing" as you assert.

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them to stop.

Or at least not very many in the DU community. I have seen positive things posted about Bernie, his policies, or even a topic not about Bernie, and immediately a group of posters descend and start attacking Bernie. It’s disappointing to me that people who like Bernie’s policies can’t discuss them on DU.

you're going to get people challenging that. What you consider positive, isn't necessarily so.

Don't want people to challenge assertions or all the rest?

Make sure that what you're posting is accurate, honest, and doesn't come across in a way that is rude or dismissive to the other side.

Because, I've rarely seen BSers post positive things. I see a lot of what this thread is--Whining that everyone is being so mean to BS or a poor, beleaguered BSer, and zero concrete examples to support that claim. I see too many occasions of BSers arguing from emotion, and not fact. I see a lot of wild assertions about BS's supposed accomplishments or influence that people can sincerely disagree with (and have evidence to debunk said claim). I see BSers labeling any criticism of BS or his supporters as "attacks." I see open or passive-aggressive bashing of Biden, the DNC, Democrats of all kinds and the voters who didn't agree with BS and his "ideas." I see a lot of them crying because other Democrats want BS to concede a race he can no longer win. I see lots of BSers who think they and BS are owed something for their losing campaign, and that they can demand to get whatever they want without giving anything in return from Biden and the majority of people who voted for him, rather than having the grace and humility to accept that they lost, and be grateful for any concessions they get after that. I see BSers who threaten to take their toys and go home if they don't get what they want, or worst of all, do it by refusing to vote for the fairly-elected Biden. And I especially see many instances, including right in this very thread, of the false equivalence of the hateful label of "Biden Bros" hurled at Biden supporters, when it's not Biden's supporters who have a demonstrated record of being, or being manipulated and riled up by, Russian bots.

Does that list apply to all BSers? No. But it does apply to way too many of them.

So, as a famous fictional character once said, rather than looking for the mote in someone else's eye, why don't you make sure there's not a beam in your own?

Your tone is dismissive and insulting. You’re talking about BSers as a collective, that anyone who supports Bernie’s policies, even members of DU, are rude, ignorant liars who won’t vote for Biden. Most of the members of the DU community, including myself, are not in the “Bernie Bros” group. In fact, I voted for Amy K in the primary. But I really like a lot of Bernie’s ideas, love his speeches about wealth inequality and admire him for not accepting corporate money. I’ve mostly tried to avoid any threads that mention Bernie, they become negative very fast. Lots of bullying here.

Did you find it to be "dismissive and insulting" when someone said that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt" and "intellectually bankrupt"? Did you like his idea that Democrats are "feeble" and "corrupt"? Did you love the speeches where the Democratic party was called an "absolute failure" and "the party of the one-percent" and the "party of the elite"?

What was your reaction to the claim that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans" and that the Democrats are "do-nothings"? Do you also believe the lie that the primaries are "rigged"?

Was it inspiring to hear the lie that that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change" or that the Democrats "focus too much" on diversity and that any party that's "very big into diversity" isn't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class?

So... if you think about it, all of those lies against Democrats and the Democratic part... that's a pretty negative "tone" that's "dismissive and insulting" right?... coming directly from the top. How do you feel about that? Do you "support his policy" of denigrating the party with toxic and divisive rhetoric?

If so, why? If not, then perhaps you'll better understand why lifelong, loyal, active and stalwart Democrats have the reactions we do toward him, and his defenders, and anyone who makes excuses for that type of behavior.

The lies and smears and attacks only serve to create an atmosphere of negativity: Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Examples of the genuine article can be furnished gratis on request....

Facts are facts. Why do you object to these facts? Facts are important

Bernie says the Democratic establishment's trying to stop him and that's not a conspiracy theory and obvious attempt to insinuate, once again, that Democrats are both-sides corrupt? I'll retire to Bedlam.

And one of my dearest friends is a black Jewish woman who's had a double-lung transplant--which means she is in about as dire of economic straits as a person can be.

We're curious how voting for someone other than BS in the Texas primary (Warren for me, Biden for her) made us, of all people, the "establishment."

I keep waiting for a berner to explain how that works in a manner that passes muster with anyone who's not a deluded moron, but, so far, bupkis.

It's why when asked for an explanation it never comes, because it's silly and makes no sense. But an ideology based on the fiction that Democrats are exactly the same as Republicans except for "identity politics" is silly and makes no sense either.

Very practical advice. I'm old enough to deal with it and throw it off, but I have been bombarded on this forum with nastiness simply because I support Bernie.

the bashing of a Democratic politician, including Bernie Sanders, is a violation of the rules.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice]

Don't bash Democratic public figures
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

Too many people don't understand the difference between bashing and criticism.

Biden has dementia

Biden is a corporate Democrat

Biden is for cutting social security

Where is Biden?

When supporters of one candidate, who has badly lost the election, post and propagate lies there is a blowback. Tell your candidate to drop out and endorse the winner with humility. Until then, there is no point is whining, complaining, kvetching and carping about how other people's genuine emotions affect someone.

There are options on DU to ignore posters that annoy one and trash threads that cause heartburn. You are free to use them.

It's a cross-section of all Biden supporters that go after me. I can't block everyone.

Perhaps I should just go to bed and sleep through this nightmare. I guess asking for civility from others is too much.

Not every bitter truth lack civility

you are the Biden supporters who have turned me against him from the git-go! Thank you for proving my point.

Bernie says that the "Democratic establishment" "can't stop him." What does that mean?

Not because the answer to it is unknown to those you address it to, but because those you address it to know full well an honest answer to it would give their game away.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."