Do you think are fair?

Let it sink.

what are you going to do?

anything in the bill. The time for him to speak would have been during negotiations for the contents of the bill. But he wasn't at the Senate when they were going on.

I'm sorry, but I can't see anything he accomplished with that.

Then he just shows up at the last minute? I don't know anyone who's impressed with grandstanding stunts and showboating. I think that the majority of voters are smart enough to see through things like that.

for had already been accomplished in his absence from the floor of the Senate. Others led that accomplishment, not Bernie. His speech was vainglorious.

How bizarre it is that people like Brianna Gray were singing his praises from the rooftops... as if he (and he alone) was the one who accomplished everything... alone... by himself... exclusively... with no help from anyone at all.

Sometimes I wonder if people like Sirota and Gray and Turner actually believe the bullshit they put out into the world... are they truly delusional? Or, is it all just play-acting... a grand scheme to gaslight the woefully incurious and other low-information-voters into believing their false characterizations and descriptions of events.

are working to sabotage his campaign and would have done so even further had he become the nominee. They do not actually support him, I believe, but support the underlying campaign for chaos.

I'm sorry to see that a progressive Senator was so easily duped. And yet, he hired people who proudly claim to have voted for Jill Stein. It beggars understanding.

I believe there is a simple explanation for his campaign staff choices... in my opinion, I believe that Jill Stein supporters were chosen as an intentional snub and unmistakable "fuck you" message directed toward the Democratic party. In fact, no other candidate campaigns against the Democratic party, just Bernie.

He hired some really deplorable people to be the faces of his campaign. He made the Democratic party (our leadership and some of our best politicians) his enemies who "conspire" against him.

The rhetoric coming from him and from his campaign has a toxic and erosive effect. He deliberately plays that dangerous game and is fully aware that campaigning like this will turn his supporters away from the Democratic Party if he doesn't win the nomination.

No other Democrat behaves like this and it creates frustration and anger among Democrats because we've been through this before. It contributed to getting Trump elected and despite all that, BS doesn't care about it and still plays the same game.

All I'm trying to say is that it serves NO GOOD PURPOSE for his quixotic game to continue. It's divisive and it harms the party, it weakens the party. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

If so, it is a sad commentary on a number of things. I hope we can overcome those things in November. We must.

As the cadre for the new Party he wants to erect on the wreckage he makes of the Democratic Party. You may see these people as sabotaging the Sanders campaign, but 'Bernie' does not. They attack the 'Democratic Establishment', which is what 'Bernie' is running to do.

Mind you, it true there hard-line Marxist socialist for whom 'Berenie' is at best a trimmer, and for some such barely discernible from Mr. Biden or Trump. His campaign coterie is not that far over the edge. They do share his goal of destroying the Democratic Party, however.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

I believe that those on his staff, among others, think themselves to be cadre, but I believe they are simply using Bernard Sanders (I-VT) as a vainglorious figurehead to help them build the new "Party" of which you speak. Sanders has a high position in government, and is easily flattered by flattery and encouragement of his vainglory. He is an ideal figurehead, with his flying locks of white hair and his booming rhetoric.

Sanders, however, has been duped by those younger, more energetic, political operatives into believing that he can rise to power in his dotage and accomplish things that have previously frustrated his attempts to lead. He follows their subtle lead in a final attempt at relevance.

Of course, it is highly likely that those oh-so-clever staff members are, themselves, dupe and stooges of an even stronger, more powerful leader whose motives they do not understand. A brilliant, yet cruel, leader of another nation who seeks an even more encompassing goal.

Perhaps it is dupes and stooges all the way down, to borrow a metaphor from Hinduism.

So i conceive, Sir, in any case. However, I admit that I might not be imagining things completely accurately. There could be yet another level of corruption I am not detecting.

Might take that amiss....

Have you a man I can send my friend to see, Sir?

I am in full charge of my own affairs.

No offense was intended, since I'm certain you are far from being a simple man. My comment referred to a different group.

Just too good a chance to pass up. It can be dangerous to employ the English language where I can hear or see, it is a remarkably fluid tongue.....


"English doesn't borrow from other languages. It tracks them down in alleys, mugs them, and rifles their pockets for spare words and bits of grammar."

The English language is among the richest of all tongues, since it has stolen from every language to enrich itself. That allows its users to explore faint tracks of meaning at times. Sadly, few are able to follow such evanescent scent trails. Using English fully is, of course, impossible, but its capabilities often cause misunderstandings.

Swoop in after negotiations and grandstand. This is all this was.

....just what "party" is that then?

Fact of the matter is this: He hired some really deplorable people to be the faces of his campaign. He made the Democratic party (our leadership and some of our best politicians) his enemies who "conspire" against him.

The rhetoric coming from him and from his campaign has a toxic and erosive effect. He deliberately plays that dangerous game and is fully aware that campaigning like this will turn his supporters away from the Democratic Party if he doesn't win the nomination.

No other Democrat behaves like this and it creates frustration and anger among Democrats because we've been through this before. It contributed to getting Trump elected and despite all that, BS doesn't care about it and still plays the same game.

All I'm trying to say is that it serves NO GOOD PURPOSE for his quixotic game to continue. It's divisive and it harms the party, it weakens the party. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

We all wait with bated breath....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

was what made the bill better!

I have never believed that was too much to ask.

You could just as easily have started your own OP from this article with that paragraph, why didn't you do that?

I support Bernie Sanders for President and post what favors him on the Primary Forum, don't you do likewise for Biden?

A common enough trick to try and reduce visibility of comments you would rather not have others see. How far back are you meaning to go?





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

I have made on this forum including this post on this OP which was near the bottom of the page.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."


People used to try this on back in the Israel v Palestine forum, it's a hoary old trick.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

with that cynicism sir.

Actually it is not mine but by Mr. Chait in 'New York' magazine, and in my earlier postings of it I made the attribution. It is so apt and succinct I have adopted it as a regular signature, and will continue to do so. It makes a sound point very well, and it is a point you and some others need to face up to.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."[/i]





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

This Chait?

Having viewed that enterprise myself with scorn as an act of idiocy that could have no good result, it does not trouble me that the man made a mistake years ago. Especially when he gets off a fine and precise summation of the case with 'Bernie' at the present day.

Let me guess --- you oppose Mr. Biden on similar grounds? Charge him, as was done to Mrs. Clinton, with being a war-monger eager to set the Middle East on fire with a nuclear blaze?

Every person in the country whose main reason for opposing a candidate was apparent support eighteen years ago for invading Iraq could gather for a meeting in the basketball gym of a large rural high school. It would be dense, but hardly stifling. No one cares. Really. No one cares.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

that raised doubts about his judgment to you?

I copied and pasted a fair amount more about Chait like the tidbit about him believing Trump would govern as Schwarzenegger.

I would quote the Devil himself if what he wrote were spot-on and apt to my purpose. I have favorite quotes from Chesterton, I have even quoted the late and un-lamented Mr. Buckley on occasion. There are even a couple from Stalin in the rotation, and not the worn to death 'counts the votes' line, either.

Mr. Chait's commentary in the article was an excellent account of the state of play where 'Bernie' and his campaign are concerned. Nothing you say will change that. i will not even point out what you are doing would have many just chanting 'ad hominem, ad hominem' at you....




"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

You will note the man's chief reasons were that he supposed Trump's nomination would do great damage to the Republican cause. That was not an unreasonable thought at the time, and taking a longer view, may still pan out. He took the critter at his word on a few things, but that is pardonable, if foolish in hindsight. A good deal of the commentariat made that mistake, mostly one suspects through insularity and lack of familiarity with the darkest recesses of 'Death Wish II' urban conservatism. In normal circumstances Cruz might well have done more harm to the government. His judicial appointments and appointments to government positions would certainly have been as bad as Trump's. He might, having some experience of government, have run a more efficient shop, and most successes in balking or delaying Trump owe to his sloppiness and inefficiency as an executive. His ignorance and pride hamper him still. Cruz is neither ignorant nor sloppy. Absent the crisis nature has sprung upon us, it is not unreasonable even today to suppose Cruz, an intelligent and efficient radical christo-fascist, might well have done more long-term harm to the fabric of government, and greater long term damage to our society, than Trump has managed. No one usually bothers with any real assessment of a candidate's competence to deal with major crisis, the un-spoken assumption being that the standing machinery of government will take over and see to it proper action be taken to deal with the situation. We are doubly unfortunate to have this creature at the helm in this desperate situation, But a commentator can't be held responsible for not foreseeing the unforseeable. There is nothing in that so erroneous as take the man down to a cellar and bill his family for the bullet.

As a general thing, it does very little good to wave pages of quote and commentary at me. Certainly it is useless to brandish quotations stripped of context, not just the words that may be around them, but the times and palces in which they were written. Do not take my comments as a defense of Mr. Chait --- they are simply an exposure of the weakness of your own position regarding him.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

....for negotiating huge improvements and benefits into the bill. What you posted was an attempt at giving Sanders some, most, or even all of the credit for the bill, even though he was hundreds of miles from Washington when the hard work was being done and had ZERO to do with crafting the bill.

Sorry, but it didn't work.

It was voted upon and passed shortly after that, "moral outrage and devastating sarcasm" notwithstanding.

Other than being one of 96 Aye votes, Sanders had absolutely nothing to do with the final bill. Nothing is going to change that.

service and they knew precisely where Bernie stood.

...or a Senator introduces an amendment.

Neither of those two things happened, not even from the Amendment King. If it was so bad why didn't he try to amend it or why didn't he vote against it?

Reminder, the bill passed 96-0. The sum total of his input on the bill was to be one of those 96 votes.

Had the title hinted at credit for Sen. Schumer or Speaker Pelosi for getting valuable provisions into the bill, you would not have bothered.

Essentially you simply clip press releases from or favorable to 'Bernie' and pile them in. You add no real commentary, you make no points of your own, you simply copy and paste. It's risible.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

if they had been candidates for President and I supported them, the OP would primarily be about Senator Schumer or Speaker Pelosi.

I agree with virtually every OP that I copy, paste and post here or at the very least consider them worthy for discussion but that's risible?

And who would post up items he did not agree with? What is risible is the regularity and the monumental un-importance of the cascade you present us with. These are never developments, never news, seldom are they anything but self-serving pronouncements from St. Bernard of Burlington, or chants of liturgical praise for his name. You commit the worst sin it is possible to commit, Sir --- you are boring. You provide neither entertainment nor information.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

50-100 likes, there are countless threads here along those lines.

Virtually any and everything that I post about Bernie has to do about the issues whether you agree with him, the author or not.

No mention of Mr. Biden petting a puppy has come to my notice in this forum....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

petting a puppy or smiling at a child, etc.

It would be a refreshing change from regurgitated and/or copied and pasted political memes.

The best of non-political pictures of Bernie.....yes, I could go for that.



ONLY!!! 2020 and beyond.

anything else, not so much.

He's a gadfly, doing gadfly things.

He was in Vermont while the grown-ups were negotiating the bill.

he should have been there during negotiations. Much more effective that way.

Let's see now...I can't safely go anywhere...I got no sports to watch on TV...I've already played all the Steam games I own...and I've downloaded every porn movie ever made.

Need some new hobbies...reading ad nauseam BS about arrogant BS ain't exactly cutting it. Think it's time to fire up that new drone that's been sitting in the box for a long time and see how them new FPV goggles I just bought work. Go chop up some of them nasty viruses floating around in the air.

Is hardly an unbiased source. So what they think is "finest" or "what an opposition party should sound like" about anything political can be taken with a grain of salt.