Mahalo for this, ffr.

This level of "defection" is not about Sanders.

And remember, Sanders' "brand" is that he'd bring in voters who might not otherwise vote Dem. So in that respect, it really should be *more* --- except that Sanders didn't bring in as many new voters as he'd hoped. Paradoxically, if Sanders' had been more successful as a candidate, that 15% number could well have been even higher!

4 years of trump.

So Please Quit Pushing that.. and you can deny it All you want but I'm DONE here.

from https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-voters-helped-trump-win-white-house-could-they-do-n1145306

The point is, nobody should expect to get 100% of someone else's voters just because they were from the same party's primary or share a common adversary. It doesn't happen. Not in 2008, not today, no matter who the candidate is. Even if it's Biden, who still could lose as much as 10% according to that poll.

But to the extent that we had a lot of open primaries (with no competitive race on the other side) and Sanders has always claimed to be able to persuade many potential Trump voters, it's not surprising that he would yield more defections than Biden would. Though it's not like those numbers are worlds apart. Which again, may indicate that Sanders is not as effective at pulling in potential Trump voters as he'd claimed. Which is what surprised me about your response, considering that what I'm saying may defend Sanders, but is also critical, because those same numbers can support either perspective.

I know, you're done here. But maybe someone else following the conversation will find it interesting.

Can we talk about now? With a pandemic, crashing economy and malignant narcissist in the WH?

...in post #22.

A lifetime ago, pandemic-wise.

and now, 2020.

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2020, 05:02 AM - Edit history (2)

The support by Russians, Rus-publicans, and Trump says everything else abour BS.

Bern: your're Bern'ed out. Thanks for all your efforts at singlehandedly stopping the Trump Virus by staying home? A special shout-out for your abysmal Senate voting record!

You, BS Bro, are the real deal!

I guess the blessing is that aside from not voting for the Dem they have a history of not voting at all. If they did BS might 've had a chance even if he didn't.

That’s something, I suppose. Anyway, Biden is going to trounce Trump because he will have the Obama coalition coming out for him. We don’t need the losers mentioned in the article.

Spoiler candidate with spoiler followers.

So those votes weren't going to be there in the first place. Plus, many of them don't seem to vote at all.

Since no one was opposing Trump, no doubt many Trump supporters decided to meddle in the Democratic Primaries.

Is not someone who supports any kind of progressive agenda. Period.

that actual right wingers would pretend to be for Bernie. It helps them divide the Democratic party.

That's less than half the voters country, but for this, assume that it's half. That means about 15% of country would vote for Sanders. So 15% of that is about 2.25% of the voters. I rather suspect we will pick up a much larger share of Republicans and independents to make up for this number. As others have said, the ones noted in that poll likely wouldn't have not voted or voted for Trump anyway.

Dems only number roughly 33% of the entire electorate, so 1/3 of Bernie's 30% he's averaging in the Dem primaries is only just 10% of all voters. If 15% of that are asshole anarchists that's only a mere 1.5%. Probably even less than that in far less progressive swing states where Bernie may have even less support than 30% of all Dems.

Doubt that is enough to cost Biden a single state Hillary won in 2016. Might conceivably cost us a swing state or two that Joe coulda won but even if they do defect mainstream Dem voters will likely show up in hordes and Indies will most likely swing Biden's way as well.

These most ardent Sanders supporters sure do like to give off the impression that their numbers are far higher than they really are. Squeaky wheels.

Moderate Republicans and Independents who will vote for Biden.

Which is why if we had followed their advice and gone further left like BS folks said we should in 2020 we Dems likely woulda been doomed.

Here are just a couple examples for states that are in play...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-primary-elections/north-carolina-results?icid=election_usmap

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-primary-elections/florida-results?icid=election_usmap

BS didn't even get 25% in either state for crying out loud. Even just one squeaky wheel outta four is 25%...LOL.

Won't cost him anything, IMO also. I know lots of GOPpers who are ready top vote against IQ45 also

voters that voted for Trump. Trump’s voters wanted to shake stuff up because they were angry at the establishment. Bernie’s voters want a revolution because they are angry at the establishment. 🙄

I'm not at all concerned about that group. They either would have voted for Trump anyway or would have stayed at home even if Sanders got the nomination. This subset is drawn to the "identity politics" dog whistle and they have no interest in having the electorate universally benefit from Democratic policies (whether center-left or progressive).

I know some Bernie supporters have pointed to quotes from folks how said that if Bernie is not the nominee, they would vote for Trump. I disagree with that and even though I think that Bernie has many Trump-like characteristics, and would be ineffective as a President, I think he is better than Trump.

That being said, while there are maybe 15 percent of Bernie supporters who would vote for Trump, there are definitely a lot of folks who would vote for any Democratic nominee, except for Bernie. For example, David Brooks, a never Trumper, had previously said that he would even vote for Warren over Trump. However, when it came to Bernie, he said he would not trade a left wing authoritarian populist over a right wing authoritarian populist.

This is why Biden does better in match-ups with Trump. He gets more cross over voters who might not like either Bernie or Trump.

https://www.registerguard.com/opinion/20200302/david-brooks-no-not-sanders-not-ever

Just contributed my little bit again. Do so every couple ofdays.



Joe will beat Trump like a drum!

There is no question 'Bernie' knowingly presents the threat that a number of his supporters will not vote for anyone but him, and therefore he should be given concession after concession. The problem is that really couldn't bring them along if attempts to buy him off were made. He deliberately tries to inflame supporters to such a heat that if he did try and bring them along with an endorsement of the winner, some would surely just denounce 'Bernie' as a sell-out. He has 'called up that which he cannot put down'.

That said, a number like this is unlikely to hold through to November. Some of this just reflects the heat of battle, and will have cooled considerably by the time the actual choice, Mr. Biden or the cheap thug Trump, is present in the voting booth.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

As is the silence from Bernie.

They'll tell us so in this thread, soon, no doubt.

I have seen polls that suggest up to 25% of Bernie's supporters did not vote for Hillary in 2016. If only 15% say they will not vote for Biden is in a good place.

And not in the usual, be nice to us or we won't vote for your person, nonsense.

Why would anyone who calls themself progressive vote for IMPOTUS? Why?

At some point the "A rated pollster" is not what it's cracked up to be.

Only in 2016, there were more supposed Sanders supporters who ended up voting for tRump.

It's often hard to believe things that go against our belief system, or that contradicts things that we are emotionally invested in. Losing is difficult, isn't it? I know the feeling.

I think you're reaching way out there. I'm comfortable with what I said.

for how disgusted I would be in a Bernie supporter who voted for Trump.

Trump is EVERYTHING that Bernie stands against. He's not just bought by the 1%, he is the essence of the 1%. Uncaring, unfeeling, unapologetic about his disdain for the ordinary American citizen.

A Bernie supporter who votes for Trump is a horrible excuse for a human being.