And Joe handled it in his usual classy way.

Was it rumored that the Dems are postponing the convention to a month later????????

WTF

WASF

I hope that that isn't true......If it takes the Dem's that long to just figure out if they need to do a virtual system, then how long is it going to take them to actually develop it? I mean three months? to just figure it out?' I hope this doesn't mean there is a chance we won't have a candidate until the last week in October.......

And I hope these Dems do a much better job of developing a new system than some of the State Primaries people have done......

Maybe, just maybe, Bernie can solve this whole nightmare by just withdrawing?????????
Or will he continue to make us listen to him for the next three-four months before he suffers the inevitable........

At any rate, we all can bet Trump and his best comrade Putin are enjoying the hell out of this........

So good that Joe gave Bernie the 411.

He’s smart enough to leave it alone

Unfortunately Mr. Biden was calling 'Bernie' Sanders.

There is no more chance 'Bernie' would get the nomination for Vice President than he has of getting the Presidential nomination, but there is no particular reason to suspect he understands that.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

A spider. They're more appealing than flies. Lol

mcar!

Why would Biden Not start doing what needs to be done to move Forward Against getting trump GONE! Just because BS stays in when he can't win the nom has nothing to do with Joe Biden's path to Victory.

This country cannot wait.

The world cannot wait.

Though we don't elect the Vice President, I'll vote blue no matter who.

Seriously, Trump has got to go.

and won’t flip any swing states. Plus her history as a prosecutor won’t help attract progressives.

Her voting record in Congress earns a higher progressive score than Sanders.

I'm just saying that Kamala is kinda a chameleon. She is often perceived as being less progressive than her voting record indicates. Kinda like Joe is often perceived by many as being less liberal than he really is. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I like Harris a lot but I oscillate back and forth as to who the best running mate is. It depends on what criteria you value the most so I'll leave it up to Biden and his advisors to figure it out and I'll get on board with whoever he chooses.

Unless it's Palin.

But she didn’t get progressive support in the primaries. Why would she get it in the general? There are better choices who don’t have her baggage and could help flip a swing state.

wouldn't vote for her as long as there was Bernie and Warren. They may feel differently if she becomes his Veep...which I am not predicting she will be. Just pointing out facts, is all.

Guessing about how progressives may feel is not pointing out facts.

but will love to fight with you after I'm done since you seem hellbent on one.

FACTS as in her progressive voting record in Congress is quite high. That's it...I said no more and no less despite what you read into it.

I can type slower for you if need be but I don't want my meat loaf to get cold.

support in the primaries. That is a fact. She also doesn’t help to flip any swing states.

It is every bit as speculative as someone suggesting they might well support her for Vice President.






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

I’m stating that they didn’t support her in the primaries. That is a fact.

You don't need me to argue with...you're doing a plenty good enough job arguing against your own strawmen.

she won’t help attract progressive voters so there are better choices for the VP slot on the ticket.

Harris was running against both Sanders and Warren. Sanders would never be picked for VP, and there are probably good reasons for Biden to not pick Warren either. Progressives may prefer that Biden pick Warren over Harris, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't support Harris if she were picked.

I enjoy a fight myself, but am not going to allow my propensity towards that to slip me into one with you over such a trivial and pointless matter. I will merely suggest that how evident support fell out in a crowded Presidential field may be a poor indicator of whether people would support the choice for Vice President of the Party's anointed Presidential candidate. A legislative record is every bit the fact that levels of apparent support in the early primary going is.

Besides, the question of whether someone 'brings a state' is not nowadays the usual, or the best, calculation in selecting a running mate. Energizing a constituency is now the usual aim. Mr. Biden has made evident that, since a great many of the voters his run will need are suburban women and career women, these are a constituency he wants eager to cast ballots. At the same time, Mr. Biden knows he owes a debt to the Party's solid African-American constituency, and wants this bloc of his supporters eager to cast ballots.

On the face of it, Sen. Harris would seem to serve both needs. The fact of the matter is that 'progressives' are not a constituency anyone is going to go much out of their way to court this year. That is one of the consequences of attempting to make the Party sorry if 'progressives' don't get their way, instead of trying to make the Party glad to see 'progressives' are always in there pitching right alongside the rest, particularly in a crisis.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

Because that’s how Presidential elections are decided so having someone on the ticket who can help flip a swing state would seem to be a good idea if you want to win. Plus having a ticket that would appeal to both moderate and progressive voters would seem like a good idea too. And are several African American women who can both help flip a swing state and appeal to progressives. And none of them ever accused Biden of being a racist.

Let me know when you have a point. and I may attend to it.

The old 'favorite son' style is long gone as guidance for professionals in choosing a running mate. Mr. Kaine in 2016 was not chosen to secure Virginia, but to provide some solid male ballast to the ticket for people reluctant to vote for a woman. It did not seem to me a good choice, but that is neither here nor there, and I emphatically do not credit him with carrying Virginia. The 2018 round showed where the trend in that state was heading, regardless of who Mrs. Clinton chose for her running mate.

It might help if you stated whom you think Mr. Biden should choose for a running mate.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

because he didn’t provide any ideological or demographic balance to the ticket. But whether he was chosen to help secure Virginia or not is unknown. Can you provide any evidence that it wasn’t one of the reasons he was chosen? It’s not like there weren’t many other moderate white guys available.

You remind me of a probably apocryphal tale of a conversation between a sergeant and his battalion commander in one of the jungle columns of 'Merrill's Marauders' in Burma. The commander had observed there'd been no fighting for a couple of days, to which the sergeant is said to have replied 'Well, Sir, we could always cross the ridge there and attack 2nd Battalion.'





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

to back up your claim. But nice try at diversion.

It is clear to me that appeal to 'progressives' will play little if any role in Mr. Biden's selection of his running mate, and so whether Sen. Harris can or cannot appeal to 'progressives' as a running mate for him is as of little interest to me as whether some particular baseball team has a decent shot this year at the pennant and victory in the Series. Actually, that has a little more interest, because it is my view that the triumph of the Chicago Cubs in 2016 altered the fabric of the universe and pitched us into this whole horror by doing so. So I do not want them to win this year....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

You claimed that out of all of the moderate white men in the Democratic Party Clinton chose one from the swing state of Virginia but the fact that he was from a swing state had nothing to do with it. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim or not?

So by all means continue, if it makes you feel better.

Your efforts here strike me as akin to someone asking how many touchdowns were scored in the last Series. It is not even wrong, it just has no bearing on what actually occurs. Or on any serious discussion of whom Mr. Biden ought to choose for a running mate, and why.

"If it makes you happy, why the Hell are you so sad?"





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

And you can’t back up your claim that Kaine coming from the swing state of Virginia had nothing to do with him being chosen for VP.

The possibility you may say something cogent, or even useful, grows increasingly slim....



"Silence is the perfect expression of scorn."

instead of playing games.

You have made it clear there is no point to taking you seriously. Your approach may work in the comments section of a newspaper, or similar venue. That is not where you are now, however.


"Them hogs comes under livestock, but this here tortoise is an insect."

any else IS just playing games and an admission that you can’t.

If you hope to distract me from engaging someone regarding Venezuela in the General Discussion forum, and postpone putting the laundry in the dryer any further, you are going to have to do better than that.

and prove your claims.

You really are going to have to better, if you mean to hold my interest.

since you can’t prove your claims.

Surely you have begun to bore yourself by now?

to watch you continue to evade proving anything that you claimed.

This one we are going to have to shut down for the duration.

"Only three men ever understood the Schleswig-Holstein affair. One is dead, another gone mad, and myself, I have quite forgotten."

Nothing wrong with doing that, people do it all the time and it does not frighten the horse or affront the womenfolk. No need to disown it.

(Quote from your No. 34 --- Why would she get it (the progressive vote) in the general?)





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

to assume things would be different in the general.

Last edited Sat Apr 4, 2020, 12:36 AM - Edit history (1)

I am having trouble teasing a meaning out from this string of words:

'No a fact that I'm asking if there is any evidence to assume things would be different in the general.'

If I am quibbling over typos or the sort of skipped or misplaced words and letters I try to clear up with 'preview' and 'edit', I do apologize.

Because the nearest to meaning I can extract from this is that you are claiming it is a fact that you asked something, which is true enough but somewhat beside the point of any discussion underway





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot." .

Can you provide any evidence that Harris would attract progressives to the ticket in the general after they didn’t support her in the primaries?

But the comment as presented was not coherent, and so no reply was really possible. And you have not really cleared it up, either, but no matter.

Courting 'progressives' is really not on this year, it seems to me. Defined, at least, as people still expressing support for Sanders, 'progressives' will come along or they will not. No one on the left should need courting to act against this cheap thug Trump, and no one who does need courting to do so can possibly be relied on. The constituency which actually must be courted in this election, and promises many more votes for harvest than hold-out 'progressives', comprises middle of the road suburban types, who have grown disgusted with the cheap thug Trump, but were at best neutral towards him, or hostile to Mrs. Clinton, four years ago. If selection is framed as a choice between appealing to these people, and appealing to 'progressives' who are still at this date not solid for the Party's nominee, it is the former group that will be favored over the latter.

Besides, there is a sort of antique air about this whole discussion. Nowadays, the chief role of a Vice Presidential candidate is as a campaign surrogate, and this year that will be more important than it has been even in the last few elections. Skill and effectiveness as a campaigner will be a leading criterion in choosing a running mate for Mr. Biden.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

You don’t have any evidence that Harris would attract progressives to the ticket in the general after they didn’t support her in the primaries so now you’re changing your tune and claiming progressive voters are not needed. Ok.

But if “Skill and effectiveness as a campaigner will be a leading criterion in choosing a running mate for Mr. Biden.”, doesn’t it seem like a bad idea to pick someone who ran such a bad campaign during the primaries she dropped out before a single vote was cast?

That you are capable of providing some amusement, if you intend to keep this up for another day....


"This pretense of not knowing what any fool knows is become predominant in our political discourse."

Why not just answer the question?

Why not acknowledge successful effort and have done with it?

Since you have made it clear there is no point to taking you seriously, this sort of kitten with a butterfly play really is all you are going to get....


"For the Snark was a Boojum, you see."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

and refuse to provide any evidence to back up any of your claims.

I am not trying to do anything but find amusement in your continued use of a tactic which clearly is not bringing you any positive result, and for the record, I am finding the pickings damned slim in the amusement line.

Laundry beckons.

that you are just playing a game and can’t back up your claims.

And therefore there is nothing to be done with you except to play. Manage to be sufficiently boring, and even that will fail of being worth the candle....

because you can’t prove your claims.

Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but not by much....

but you can’t can you.

I shall return in a couple of hours after putting together a saag ghosh for the womenfolk, and we shall see....

But you know that you can’t.

Being complimented on my cooking and getting my back rubbed.

So sad

You have my sympathy. Really you do....

so I'll put this here for folks to make their own conclusions...

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?topic=&house=senate&sort=crucial-lifetime&order=down&party=

2nd highest in the entire Senate for lifetime voting on crucial progressive votes...and 5th highest lifetime on all votes. Ahead of Sanders on both counts.

This actually surprised me when I found out about it quite some time ago because I was one of those who thought Harris was less progressive than her voting record indicates.

Whether or not progressives (of which I consider myself to be one on quite a few issues) would find her an attractive running mate is entirely up to them. But I would imagine that she might help to ruffle some Bernie supporter feathers if Joe was to name her as a running mate. Certainly I would think that many of them would be more satisfied with such a choice rather than say, Klobuchar. Amy is also another great choice who I like an awful lot...it's just that she ranks higher if Biden was to use different criteria to make his selection.

This is all above my pay grade, so as I said I'll trust that Joe & Gang will go through each and every one and will make the best choice they can depending on many factors. From what I've seen speculated as to who may be on that short list Joe could pretty much throw a dart and wind up with a VP who is at a minimum 10 times better than the guy we got now. Pence spends half his time with his head up Trump's ass and when Donnie pulls him out spends the other half nauseatingly kowtowing and genuflecting to his beloved Fuhrer. Dude makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about him which is not a good idea since I just ate.

Where the idea politics is a business in which amateurs ought to direct things got started is a mystery to me.

My inclination is towards Sen. Klobuchar, as she has proved herself one helluva campaigner in Minnesota, with an especial appeal to women of the suburban and professional sort, who generally do tend more to the middle of the road. These are people we want firmly on our side. Sen. Harris has appeal to this constituency, and also to African American supporters of Mr. Biden.



Regarding people who do this for a living, you may find the material at this link interesting:

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/plunkett-george/tammany-hall/index.htm

It is a series of monologues from a professional old pol, set down a bit over a century ago. Disregard the 'marxists' in the link line, this has nothing to do with that, and why these people host it I haven't a clue, but they have it in a good read on-line format.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

But despite that record progressives didn’t support her in the primaries. What evidence is there that they will have a change of heart in the general?

Let’s define the field. Who do you consider a “progressive”? People that didn’t support Kamala Harris in the primary? I supported her.


Who, precisely now, are you talking about?

And let’s remember it was just progressives who didn’t support Harris, it was moderates too. Why do people think that someone who ran such a bad campaign in the primaries and was such a bad candidate that they were forced to drop out before a single vote was cast would suddenly be a good candidate in the general? I guess that is why most nominees don’t pick a former primary opponent as their running mate.

A group? A PAC? Polling? I think you mean polling. You can find some evidence there

Why do you think she ran a “Bad” campaign? Specifically please.

That is a bad campaign by definition. Maybe if she ran a good campaign and actually got the support of progressives she would have stayed in and maybe even won some delegates.

An interesting point of view however.

Not even making it to Iowa is a good campaign? That’s a valid point of view, on the bizarro earth.

An interesting point of view.

I like it.

in the primaries would support him in the general. They don't want a Republican (especially the Dotard) as President. So they don't want one as VP either.

it doesn’t matter who is VP.