He needs to show leadership and rein these puppies in....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

under an exemption for medical treatment.

take it

and a dartboard with "establishment" written on it coupled with darts marked "revolution."

....totally stoned or drunk.

Norman Bates style.

Link to tweet

Unless Sanders personally puts a stop to this nonsense, it will continue.

At the risk of repeating myself, his campaign has done more to undermine any good he might have done than anyone else has.

The vast majority of Bernie supporters who were gonna vote no matter what will vote for Biden. Including 100% on DU. They are good people.

The kooks never would vote for him, or for any mainstream candidate regardless. They are just, well, kooks. Most have never voted anyway.

But I watched a governor election in Florida in 18 we almost won slip away because we nominated a weak candidate who would have won had be not in unnecessary desperation tie himself to Sanders. The Ads wrote themselves. Had we nominated the mainstream democrat we would have won.

The last thing Biden needs to do is tie himself to Bernie. The more petulant Bernie seems in the press the more mainstream America will feel comfortable with Joe.

His schtick is wearing thin - he tweets the same shit daily.

The crazier they look. Ignore.

Hasty generalization is a logical fallacy. It's one way to do racism. An individual (or even several) African Americans kill somebody. Then, we hear "They are going to keep killing whites."

This is exactly what is wrong:

Some guy Matt what's-his-face and some few others say something stupid. Then people turn it into "THEY, i.e. Bernie supporters are trying to do X." People take a collection of anecdotes and use them for some kind of agenda or just because they hold a grudge. Who knows. It's logically false and it is destructive, not constructive.

The vast majority of Bernie supporters are not Matt.

How should we approach this Matt fellow instead? We need to address the core of his argument!

We have to admit that VP Joe Biden was wrong about a few things with Iraq, but propagandists also exaggerate his wrongness. They will point to him being chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee in 2002 prior to the 2003 declaration of war on Iraq. They will point to him making some false statements about WMDs. BUT that's because Joe Biden was tricked by the Bush Administration. He was tricked by false intelligence reports that the Republicans made up. So was I initially, like many Democrats.

Even though Joe Biden was tricked, he didn't pull some switch and say "okay, George W Bush kill a million people." NO, he made an amendment or a bill that said we could go into Iraq for the purpose of dismantling WMD, not for regime change. The bill also called for international (UN) oversight and reporting requirements to congress. So Joe Biden was very much NOT in favor of a no holds barred war against Iraq but wanted a much smaller scope in order to save American lives and put various checks on the Administration.

see The Los Angeles Times, 02 Oct 2002, page 8:

This is a reasonable position when you are given false information.

Things clearly did not turn out this way and Bernie's instinct on it was better. But we can't pretend that Joe didn't value Iraqi lives or that he's an imperialist or some other extreme term that propagandists outside the Democratic Party will use as a competitive means to get progressives into their fold.

Let me repeat that in another way. When we look at far-left ideologies such as Marxism, we observe that they discuss a term "imperialism" and this term describes not only literally empire--the root word--but profit being redirected in capitalist society to the victors--to the ownership class. It is entirely plausible that this description is apt in connection to Dick Cheney's Project for a New American Century and all the fringe defense industry and oil company benefits they were receiving directly and indirectly. However, Joe Biden's proposed resolution clearly does not fit this Marxist paradigm because its scope was far too small and was not about profit under capitalism in any way aside from incidental that we all operate under capitalism. A far more parsimonious explanation of Joe Biden's proposed resolution is that he was interested in saving both American lives and Iraqi lives.

This tells us that Joe Biden and we share the same values. It tells us that he also shares those values with Bernie. We are all on the same team here.

We should try to act like it.

But it would be a lot simpler, and more to the point, if you just said the fellow is a poison toad who needs to shut his fucking mouth and stop trying to get Trump re-elected.

Saves time and effort all around....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

It is ineffective and unconvincing to anyone else, BUT regardless that is not what the OP said. The op said THEY. We need to stop that because we need to keep progressives in our coalition.

If you are not for keeping progressives in the coalition, then we have an issue.

You indicate above awareness the charge reported in the heading post, and frequently encountered elsewhere in various forums, is a lie. A lie reared up on a fragment of fact that is distorted out of all recognition. Liars ought to be named for what they are. Merely claiming the title of 'progressive' or 'leftist' does not make anyone immune from criticism, and certainly not from accurate description. This Orfalea fellow is a liar. A good many people echo the same lie, and do so in the name of supporting Sanders. Sanders keeps silent about the lies told in his name. He does nothing to rein them in. He does not say they are lies. What he does is lie back and reap the benefit of these energetic liars, who suggest he has at his disposal a great capacity to disrupt and harm the prospects of the Democratic Party and its nominee if he is not placated in some so far unspecified way. That is the truth of the matter, and every one who is not party to the lies told to advance Sanders' cause knows it.

Opposing these liars and naming them as liars is not making enemies of 'progressives'. It is recognizing there are a number of people who call themselves 'progressives' who have declared themselves to be the enemies of the Democratic Party, and would be content to see its nominee for President fail, and the country be delivered again into the hands of the cheap thug Trump and the gravedigger of the Senate, McConnell. They have their reasons for this desire, they imagine it will clear the way for some revolutionary advance of the 'progressive' cause. That is a false hope, which never will be realized, but the harm done in pursuit of it will be real enough. The only thing at question is how much harm these people will manage to inflict. It may not be sufficient to cause material harm to Mr. Biden's candidacy, but it could be. In either case, it is a harm and a risk it would be best to avoid, and if possible, to remove. Your aid in doing this, rather than in whitewashing it, is solicited.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

Expressions support for Sanders are often made simply as a marker of political orientation. Expressing support for Sanders says 'I'm not a moderate, I'm well to the left of most people', and as with most such things, serves to identify a 'cool' group separate from the general run of 'squares'. People doing this do not even particularly want to prevail, in the sense of being in the majority. It is axiomatic that a majority can never be 'cool', the feeling of being 'hip' and part of an 'in-crowd' depends on being outnumbered by the host of the unwashed and unenlightened. The point is not to achieve any political goal, to secure any discrete reform, it is simply to be sure one is perceived as a particular, and special, kind of person.

People who have an actual interest in achieving the goals widespread among Democrats, the goals of all left and progressive and liberal persons in general, recognize readily Sanders is far too flawed as a politician, and as a personality, to make any progress towards their goals. They know Sanders has not achieved any measurable advance towards them in his long Congressional career. They know Sanders' claim to hold patents and copyrights on these goals is nonesense, because they know their own desires pre-date Sanders, and exist in their hearts and minds without the slightest reference to him or influence by him.

What would be a helpful contribution would be for well-meaning supporters of Sen. Sanders to make clear the partisans of the faction that are unwilling to support the Democratic nominee are flat wrong, and seek by their own actions to demonstrate how wrong they are. Rather than to claim that when this faction of 'Bernie' devotees are attacked for what they are, nihilist wreckers whose actions assist the cheap thug Trump, they themselves are the people who are being attacked. It is rather like a main-line Protestant minister complaining that when the likes of Falwell Jr. or Rick Wiles is attacked for their pernicious statements and actions, it is Christianity, and all Christians, who are being attacked. If you are not claiming Mr. Biden is a senile racist rapist who killed millions in Iraq, whom you could under no circumstances vote for, no one is attacking you. I certainly am not, and would not. You would probably find I agreed with you on many points of policy, and certainly on most goals to be sought.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

This is nothing new and it's not limited to Orfalea. Waiving this off as an isolated incident is laughable.

His senior staff convinced him to concede the primary.

...out of the campaign staff.

This isn't helpful.

What would be helpful would be for well-meaning supporters of Sen. Sanders to make clear the partisans of that faction of 'Bernie' adherents which seems unwilling to support the Democratic nominee are flat wrong, and to seek by their own actions to demonstrate how wrong they are. Rather than to claim that when this faction of 'Bernie' devotees are attacked for what they are, nihilist wreckers whose actions assist the cheap thug Trump, it is they themselves who are being attacked. It is rather like a main-line Protestant minister complaining that when the likes of Falwell Jr. or Rick Wiles is attacked for their pernicious statements and actions, it is Christianity, and all Christians, who are being attacked. If you are not claiming Mr. Biden is a senile racist rapist who killed millions in Iraq, whom you could under no circumstances vote for, no one is attacking you. I certainly am not, and would not. You would probably find I agreed with you on many points of policy, and certainly on most goals to be sought.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

Address arguments rather than swipes at entire diverse groups of people.

Really i do....




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

... continued to work for them anyway. He's someone whose work is admired by Jane Sanders.

You're acting like he's just some anonymous clown on Twitter. He's NOT, and Sanders' people (Gray and Sirota in particular) encourage stuff like this.

He doesn't appear to even work for the campaign.

You may wish to consider making an OP out of it.

-Laelth

Either Bernie and his campaign didn't properly vet this individual - in which case they're idiots, or they knew about Orfalea's history and hired him anyway - in which case they're complicit.

Neither option reflects well on Bernie or his campaign.

Sid

Biden is racist-rapist-warmonger-dementia-corrupt bullshit shifts into high gear. He's being Hillaryed.

Means we are attacking 'progressives', and making enemies of 'progressives', and making it difficult if not impossible for 'progressives' to vote against the cheap thug Trump come November.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

who are on Sanders payroll? As always BS pretends to be above the fray while his staff and surrogates go on smearing the presumptive nominee. It's going to be a repeat of 2016 for Sanders and crew.

I guess the poor guy hasn't heard yet.

Link to tweet