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Rhiannon12866

(222,086 posts)
Sun Oct 13, 2024, 10:15 PM Oct 13

'I'm a little stunned': Ta-Nehisi Coates responds to sharp backlash to 'The Message' - Ayman - MSNBC



Acclaimed author Ta-Nehisi Coates has been on an unusual and controversial book tour. He has received significant media backlash for "The Message," a new collection of essays which include his reflections on a trip to the West Bank. MSNBC's Ayman Mohyeldin talks to Coates about his comparisons between the occupied Palestinian territory and the Jim Crow South. - Aired on 10/13/2024.
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SunSeeker

(53,655 posts)
4. No, he is being "kicked" for being wrong.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:13 AM
Oct 14

Jews may present as white in the US, but in the Middle East they do not; they present as Jews. Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel and were colonized by European whites as well as Arabs. The much more appropriate analogy for Israeli Jews is to Native Americans, not white Europeans. The Hamas-Israel War is not like the Jim Crow South.

I realize to a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and to an expert on the African American civil rights movement, he will tend to see everything through that lens, but it just doesn't apply to Gaza.

SunSeeker

(53,655 posts)
7. No doubt.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:22 AM
Oct 14

That piece you posted talks about how the Israeli settlers in the West Bank want to rid it of Palestinians. But the Palestians of Gaza had already accomplished that sort of thing in Gaza--all 21 Jewish settlements in Gaza were forced to leave, and they were even forced to take their long-buried dead from Gaza cemeteries with them. https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2005/08/17/dead-must-follow-settlers-out-of-gaza/ Palestinians celebrated as trucks hauled it all away in 2005. https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/middle-east/palestinians-celebrate-as-they-watch-the-removal-trucks-go-by-306176.html

So since 2005, there have been no Jews in Gaza. Alas, Hamas filled the vacuum, started a war, and here we are.

elleng

(136,043 posts)
6. He was there, and he described treatment as 'less than;' which is 'wrong;'
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:19 AM
Oct 14

it reflects fact of his treatment.

SunSeeker

(53,655 posts)
8. That's not what he talks about in the OP clip. He talks about colonialism, not any treatment he received there.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:45 AM
Oct 14

And at the end of the clip, Ta-Nehisi Coates says, "To be honest, Ayman, I don't quite have this formulated yet" regarding how the Palestinian issue should be solved. He just says he is "not optimistic."

Behind the Aegis

(54,854 posts)
2. I'm a Jew of color. Ta-Nehisi Coates can't apply U.S. lessons to Israel
Sun Oct 13, 2024, 11:37 PM
Oct 13

I grew up in the U.S. as a mixed-race kid — Israeli Jewish father, Caribbean Jewish mother. For me, reading the book that made Ta-Nehisi Coates truly famous — Between the World and Me — was therapeutic. I resonated deeply with his anguished letter to his son in an attempt to prepare him for the dangers of life as an American Black man. It made me remember the pained look on my own father’s face as he once looked at his melanated son sitting in the back of a police car, for the “crime” of “being brown” in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The amount of not just respect, but personal connection, I feel to Coates’ previous work makes his new misfire on the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that much more painful to consider. The longest essay in his recently published book, titled The Message, attempts to inspire a thoughtful discourse on injustice in the Holy Land. But he misses the mark by trying to draw a direct analogy between the historical experiences of Black Americans and those of Palestinian Arabs — a bias he acknowledges when he recalls in his youth arriving at the conclusion that “the Israelis were ‘white,’ and the Palestinians were ‘Black.’”

My white-presenting father did not know what it meant to belong to a conquered people in the United States. But he did come from a conquered people in Palestine: the Palestinian Jewish community known internally as the “Old Yishuv.”

For nearly two millennia in the land now known as Israel, Jews and Samaritans endured second-class citizenship, regular abuse and occasional massacres under imperial rule.

While white Christians were engaged in acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing in their expanding colonies — like the British colonies that predated the creation of the U.S. – Arab Muslims were conquering, colonizing and marginalizing Jews and Samaritans in the land now known as Israel; Copts and Nubians in Egypt; and Assyrians and Mandeans in Iraq; replacing them with Arabic speaking Islamic majorities.

more...

SunSeeker

(53,655 posts)
3. Yes, I too am very disappointed in Ta-Nehisi Coates over his wrongheaded analogy.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:05 AM
Oct 14

Jews may present as white in the US, but in the Middle East they present as Jews, who are indigenous to that land and were colonized by European whites as well as Arabs. The much more appropriate analogy for Israeli Jews is to Native Americans, not white Europeans.

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