General Discussion

Self Esteem

(1,751 posts)

38. This is an incomplete argument.

Sun Dec 1, 2024, 01:03 AM

Dec 1

Trump won white women handily in 2020 too.

He won white women 55-44 over Biden.

In fact, Harris did *BETTER* among white women than Biden did. Trump won this group 53-46. That means he went from +11 in 2020 to only +6 in 2024.

So, how did she do worse among women overall than Biden in 2020?

Well Biden won Hispanic women 69-30 in 2020 and Harris won them 58-39. That's basically a ten-point swing.

She lost ground on 'other' women too (likely Asian and other races). In 2020, Biden won this group 58-38. Harris, though? 49-47. Yet another non-white group shifting to Trump.

And Harris did worse among Black women than Hillary in 2016. Hillary won Black women 94-4. Harris won them 92-7. That's not a huge difference but the margins hurt.

The fact is, the electorate overall shifted to the right. Black men voted more for Trump than four years ago (19% for Trump in 2020 and 21% in 2024), Hispanic men shifted significantly (Harris lost the vote 54-44 after Biden won it 59-36 in 2020) and it is important to ask WHY those voters shifted.

Maybe some of it was racism and sexism but we know Black men overwhelmingly supported Hillary. She won this group 82-13. In three election cycles, Black men went from 13% support for Trump to 21%.

The margins? Hillary won Black men by 69% in 2016. In 2024? Harris' margin was 56%.

That's a difference of 13 points.

Not HUGE but it kinda is because Democrats only win when the margins with minorities is sky high.

Did Black men become more sexist since 2016? No. We saw the movement four years ago. Biden did worse among Black men than Hillary.

THIS IS a legitimate concern and we need to figure it out. I do agree with your claim about the OP being misguided, tho.

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Highlight:

"But What About the Menzzzzzz?????" is the anguished cry after this travesty of an election. [View all] niyad Nov 30 OP

Yes, there is one major issue that is confronting today's young male. OldBaldy1701E Nov 30 #1

This! Dem4life1234 Nov 30 #7

And try retiring as a woman. Hope22 Nov 30 #9

Totally agree with your post. Lazzzzzzzzzy menzzzzzzzzz. Trueblue1968 Nov 30 #31

That was a perfect description of the husband I divorced in 1985 kimbutgar Dec 1 #76

So glad Dem4life1234 Dec 1 #82

Your first hubby sounds like mine, but I divorced his ass finally and I have a good guy as my life partner now. CTyankee Dec 1 #95

During that marriage my Mother always reminded me to take birth control so I wouldn't get pregnant and kimbutgar Dec 1 #104

There's a lot more to it than that EdmondDantes_ Nov 30 #32

I'm quite sure that... GiqueCee Dec 1 #40

You are a man of quality. Thank you. Timeflyer Dec 1 #41

Even if you want to just ignore them, they get to vote too EdmondDantes_ Dec 1 #74

I never said I'd ignore them... GiqueCee Dec 10 #136

Basically speaking azureblue Dec 1 #53

These are imagines are pushed by a predominate white "man-o-sphere" that *MIS*defines what it means to be a man uponit7771 Dec 1 #55

Well, I never said it was dismissed or that it was easy. OldBaldy1701E Dec 2 #123

This country needs more good jobs! get the red out Dec 2 #128

Yep, equity feels like oppression to the privileged uponit7771 Dec 1 #54

May they live their lives in celibacy, or as close to it as possible... Evolve Dammit Nov 30 #2

And they won't have porn to fap to Dem4life1234 Nov 30 #16

Good luck with tackling a multi-billion dollar industry. And they're all jerk-offs so it won't happen... Johnson & Son Evolve Dammit Nov 30 #17

sure they will. like anything else that's misdirection. quakerboy Dec 1 #63

What blighted futures? Demobrat Nov 30 #3

The bottom 50% of available men are basically unable to date IbogaProject Nov 30 #14

Sucks being them. So sad, too bad. Evolve Dammit Nov 30 #18

I get Trumpsters trying to "friend" me on Facebook that I say I don't date men who obviously have no respect for women. kerry-is-my-prez Dec 2 #125

Okay. So women no longer have to settle for ugly, stupid, abusive men, Demobrat Nov 30 #20

THIS !!! The divorce rate is nearly ***half*** of what it was 24 years ago!! uponit7771 Dec 1 #56

I'm curious where you get your numbers quakerboy Dec 1 #65

50% was just made up IbogaProject Dec 1 #77

I don't think so. malthaussen Dec 1 #68

"What about us" indeed RandomNumbers Nov 30 #4

Women shifted to Trump too. Self Esteem Nov 30 #5

There are some women Dem4life1234 Nov 30 #8

Mind-boggling. Centuries of subjugation?? Sad in any case. Stronger together. Evolve Dammit Nov 30 #19

Again, maybe asking why the shift occurred is needed to make sure it doesn't happen again. Self Esteem Nov 30 #21

A "quality" man will not be interested in these women. kerry-is-my-prez Dec 2 #126

Nobody actually knows the ratios there, it's just a MODEL used by the exit polling people to MATCH the totals lostnfound Nov 30 #12

It's easy to dismiss things as BS that we don't want to hear. Self Esteem Nov 30 #22

I no longer trust the polls. The more votes get counted, the narrower the margin of Trump's "win" gets Hekate Nov 30 #15

It's easy to not trust reality. Self Esteem Nov 30 #23

Racism isn't only a male thing. nt RandomNumbers Nov 30 #26

It's lazy to just say racism is why Harris lost. Self Esteem Nov 30 #28

It's not lazy, nor offered as the only explanation. RandomNumbers Nov 30 #29

The claim is lazy. Self Esteem Dec 1 #37

You created the claim you wanted to dismiss. You alone added the "only" part. Hermit-The-Prog Dec 1 #94

When that's the 'only' argument the poster is using to explain why Harris lost... Self Esteem Dec 1 #111

Don't call me "friend." You have no credibility with me. Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2 #121

I don't want credibility from someone who clearly selective reads. Self Esteem Dec 2 #132

Interesting dodge dpibel Dec 1 #109

The whole argument is a dodge. Self Esteem Dec 1 #110

Now, that's counter-factual. malthaussen Dec 1 #66

Racism did have an impact Henry203 Dec 1 #84

I know it's not kosher to say it.... Trueblue Texan Nov 30 #27

Agreed! niyad Dec 1 #71

Yessir, I believe it. Add a compliant & corrupt SCOTUS to the ungodly stew, and there you have it. Hekate Dec 1 #89

Trump handily won the "white" woman vote. Littlered Nov 30 #35

This is an incomplete argument. Self Esteem Dec 1 #38

In the swing states the black movement towards Trump was miniscule at best save Wisconsin uponit7771 Dec 1 #59

This isn't true. Self Esteem Dec 1 #112

There were seven swing states not one uponit7771 Dec 1 #115

lol did you forget your own post? You literally said there was a miniscule change in all but one (WI). Self Esteem Dec 1 #117

Please source your info, here's what I got from swing states results from AJ (link) uponit7771 Dec 1 #118

Here you go. Self Esteem Dec 2 #120

No, you're surprised they voted against what you believe to be their best interests. malthaussen Dec 1 #67

Shortly after the election, I saw some woman on MSNBC just flatly say "We need those women to vote THE RIGHT WAY" Midwestern Democrat Dec 1 #116

Nah Littlered Dec 2 #119

Not black women, wanted to make sure to highlight that. uponit7771 Dec 1 #58

So, about the Menz - to me it is like white people griping about RandomNumbers Nov 30 #6

If conservative men see America as a meritocracy Beckett Nov 30 #11

Yep, equity looks like oppression to the privileged uponit7771 Dec 1 #61

You do know it was Asians who sue to stop jimfields33 Dec 1 #79

Allan Bakke was Asian? dpibel Dec 1 #108

"...destroyed by the insane results of this election..." J_William_Ryan Nov 30 #10

Continues, and is accelerating. niyad Dec 1 #50

If women all cared and voted they wouldn't be able to do it. onecaliberal Nov 30 #13

Apparently a lot of white women are upset that their feckless sons... hunter Dec 1 #69

Exactly. onecaliberal Dec 1 #70

It's about losing the veneer Trish6521 Nov 30 #24

You're not wrong, but possibly incomplete. malthaussen Dec 1 #72

What "traditional roles"? Very few women stay out of the labor force these days. valleyrogue Dec 1 #81

You can label it whatever you please. malthaussen Dec 1 #88

I'm a woman who never married or had kids, Demobrat Dec 1 #91

It's brainwashing. Most of them learn the hard way that no man "takes care of them." valleyrogue Dec 1 #97

Working is hard. Most jobs, especially entry level jobs, suck. Demobrat Dec 1 #107

"brainwashing" is too facile a term, IMO. malthaussen Dec 1 #114

What "accepted roles" and by whom? valleyrogue Dec 1 #98

That is exactly the question. malthaussen Dec 1 #113

and a big issue with those insecure males Skittles Dec 1 #102

A catalyst BumRushDaShow Nov 30 #25

My thought was maybe too many menzz don't pay enough attention, so that a campaign by a woman... Beartracks Nov 30 #30

I will never understand why men don't seem to get Demobrat Nov 30 #33

So very true. niyad Dec 1 #49

Toby Keith - I Wanna Talk About Me (Official Music Video) cbabe Nov 30 #34

I got about 15 seconds into it. niyad Dec 1 #48

Yep. That's the offensive point. Stupid women and all about me menz. cbabe Dec 1 #57

ohhhh, sister... bluboid Nov 30 #36

You are most welcome. niyad Dec 1 #42

the whiney penis folks can pull themselves up by their bootsraps. pansypoo53219 Dec 1 #39

Or jockstraps! niyad Dec 1 #43

Another thing I've noticed Dem4life1234 Dec 1 #44

Thank you for pointing this out. Most of my viewing on youtube is political, niyad Dec 1 #47

Just seeing some of the titles as I scroll past is enough to raise my blood pressure... malthaussen Dec 1 #75

There are women who post things just as ridiculous... malthaussen Dec 1 #73

Oh I've seen some of those videos by women Dem4life1234 Dec 1 #83

just like Fox cultivates anger in old white folks 4catsmom Dec 1 #90

This! They claim women want the assholes and bad boys Dem4life1234 Dec 1 #92

I was willing to put up with jerks/cheaters until I turned 26. kerry-is-my-prez Dec 2 #127

The men Dem4life1234 Dec 2 #130

These are guys now in their 60's to 70's. The guys I keep in touch kerry-is-my-prez Dec 2 #131

If we want to help young men, Elessar Zappa Dec 1 #45

Yes, thank you. niyad Dec 1 #46

Yes, being raised in the Patriarchy means there is a hell of a lot to unlearn. Magoo48 Dec 1 #51

These menzzzzz are going to have 18 years of child support mzmolly Dec 1 #52

Pretty sure they won't, as so few actually do even now. niyad Dec 1 #60

Sadly mzmolly Dec 1 #62

Triumph of the wimps. malthaussen Dec 1 #64

Those same men can be incredibly toxic ismnotwasm Dec 1 #78

The serious issue Cirsium Dec 1 #80

Indoctrination of Little Boys IroningBored Dec 1 #85

This thread is exactly why we continue to drive men into the arms of the fascists. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 1 #86

It also glosses over the inconvenient reality 45 percent of women voted for Dump. BannonsLiver Dec 1 #87

Toxic men who hate women Demobrat Dec 1 #96

There's nothing wrong with talking about it. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 1 #99

Why? To please men? Demobrat Dec 1 #100

No, because it's bullshit. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 1 #101

So, my life experience, and the life experiences Demobrat Dec 1 #103

No, things do happen. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 1 #105

Where in this thread does it say all or most? Demobrat Dec 1 #106

There are more men being told it's ok to be a sexual predator. kerry-is-my-prez Dec 2 #124

Good luck on this site Skoodydoody5555 Dec 2 #122

Then why are you even here? mercuryblues Dec 8 #134

You should have been, dipstick. Whoops! just got banned, dincha! marble falls Dec 9 #135

Protectors and Providers? IroningBored Dec 2 #129

White men are going to be lost for like half a century because of this bullshit. Initech Dec 1 #93

Their leaders are setting them up to be cannon fodder in the final war against... hunter Dec 2 #133